Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

[branchg]

I doubt William's wife will carry the style of HRH Princess William upon marriage. The Queen may grant him an earldom for the sake of his wife having a style until he becomes Duke of Cornwall.

We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Madame Royale]

Yes, Edinburgh will pass to Charles on his father's death. When Charles becomes King, or is King, Edinburgh will automatically merge with the Crown and has to be re-created as a "new" Dukedom for Edward.

Thank you, Warren

 

[Iluvbertie]

Charles as the eldest son, wil inherit the Dukedom of Edinburgh, if he becomes King it will merge with the crown, he than can recreate it, but if Charles never becomes King, thisis what can happen:

Phillip dies, Charles becomes Duke of Edinburgh, Charles Dies, (Queen hasn't died) William becomes Duke of Edinburgh.

Later on, after William becomes King, he can choose to recreate the Duke of Edinburgh titel for the Earl of Wessex

So, if William gets say the Duke of Clarence title, it is POSSIBLE for him too at one point hold 4 dukedoms!

William won't ever have FOUR dukedoms.

If the present Duke of Edinburgh dies before the Queen that title will pass immediately to Charles (who will then have three dukedoms).

On Charles accession the Dukedom of Edinburgh will merge with the crown and not be inherited by William (who will then have the Dukedoms of Cornwall and Rothsay and any other Dukedom that the Queen may have conferred upon him). William, will thus, at best have only three dukedoms - the same as his father would have had in this scenario.

However, if Philip dies after the Queen then the Edinburgh title immediately merges with the crown. Again William could only have a maximum of three dukedoms.

However, if Charles dies before his mother then William can't become either Duke of Cornwall or Rothesay as these titles a held specifically for the eldest son of the monarch and heir to the throne not just the heir to the throne. George III who was the heir to the throne (eldest son of the eldest son who had died) was never Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay. His position as heir would be the same as William's in the scenario I am talking about here.

If Charles dies before his mother then William could at best hold two Dukedoms - his own, and on the death of his grandfather the Edinburgh title, which he would hold until his own succession when both titles would merge with the crown.

 

[Princess Robijn]

William won't ever have FOUR dukedoms.

If the present Duke of Edinburgh dies before the Queen that title will pass immediately to Charles (who will then have three dukedoms).

On Charles accession the Dukedom of Edinburgh will merge with the crown and not be inherited by William (who will then have the Dukedoms of Cornwall and Rothsay and any other Dukedom that the Queen may have conferred upon him). William, will thus, at best have only three dukedoms - the same as his father would have had in this scenario.

However, if Philip dies after the Queen then the Edinburgh title immediately merges with the crown. Again William could only have a maximum of three dukedoms.

However, if Charles dies before his mother then William can't become either Duke of Cornwall or Rothesay as these titles a held specifically for the eldest son of the monarch and heir to the throne not just the heir to the throne. George III who was the heir to the throne (eldest son of the eldest son who had died) was never Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay. His position as heir would be the same as William's in the scenario I am talking about here.

If Charles dies before his mother then William could at best hold two Dukedoms - his own, and on the death of his grandfather the Edinburgh title, which he would hold until his own succession when both titles would merge with the crown.

and what if Prince Charles doesn't accept the title of Duke of Edinburgh, does William get it than?

 

[Empress]

Hmmm. is Prince Charles then the most titled peer at the moment? If he is not, then how could William become the most titled peer?

And by the way, I have never heard of Diana being refered to as The Princess Charles or Princess Charles, and the same goes for Camilla. Where have you found this terminology?

 

[Henri M.]

The Prince Charles most titled Peer

Hmmm. is Prince Charles then the most titled peer at the moment? If he is not, then how could William become the most titled peer?

And by the way, I have never heard of Diana being refered to as The Princess Charles or Princess Charles, and the same goes for Camilla. Where have you found this terminology?

Yes, I think that Prince Charles is the most titled Peer. His father and his two brothers and his uncles held two or three titles.

He is:

His Royal Highness
The Prince Charles Arthur Philip George of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Prince of Wales
Earl of Chester
Duke of Cornwall
Duke of Rothesay
Earl of Carrick
Baron of Renfrew
Lord of the Isles
Prince and Great Steward of Scotland.

 

[branchg]

Hmmm. is Prince Charles then the most titled peer at the moment? If he is not, then how could William become the most titled peer?

And by the way, I have never heard of Diana being refered to as The Princess Charles or Princess Charles, and the same goes for Camilla. Where have you found this terminology?

Charles was born HRH Prince Charles of Edinburgh, became HRH The Prince Charles, Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay in 1952 as the eldest son and heir to the Sovereign, and was created Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester in 1958.

However, his wife is never styled as "The Princess Charles" because she is HRH The Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, etc. It is incorrect to refer to Diana or Camilla in this way.

 

[branchg]

and what if Prince Charles doesn't accept the title of Duke of Edinburgh, does William get it than?

Charles will inherit the Dukedom as Philip's eldest son. If he is still heir to the throne, he simply adds Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merinoth and Baron Greenwich to his existing titles. If he is King, the Dukedom automatically merges with the Crown and is available again to be re-created for Prince Edward.

The only way William would become Duke of Edinburgh is if both his father and grandfather died before The Queen.

 

[Leslie2006]

Actually, Lutherans are protestants, too... and therefore, as far as I can see, not ineligible.

Actually, I don't think Victoria would be allowed to marry William anyway, particularly because she is an heiress, and he is the the heir of an heir so... If she were to marry him, I think she'd have to give up her place in the Swedish succession, and the title of heir would go back to Carl-Philip.

 

[Henri M.]

Actually, I don't think Victoria would be allowed to marry William anyway, particularly because she is an heiress, and he is the the heir of an heir so... If she were to marry him, I think she'd have to give up her place in the Swedish succession, and the title of heir would go back to Carl-Philip.

Or the other way round. William gives up his rights for marrying Victoria.

 

[branchg]

She could not marry William without renouncing her right to the Swedish throne and converting to the Church of England.

 

[Iluvbertie]

She could not marry William without renouncing her right to the Swedish throne and converting to the Church of England.

She actually doesn't have to convert based on the examples of Prince Albert and Queen Alexandra who were both raised and confirmed Lutheran.

I can find no reference to either of them converting to Anglicanism. I have also read that there was no need for Philip to actually convert as the Greek Orthodox are also 'in communion with' the Anglican Church.

They have to be 'in communion with' the Anglican church, and according to my COE minister Lutherans are 'in communion with' the Anglican church. Lutherans can take communion in an Anglican church and vice versa (this from my own experience where I have one so with friends at times with no problems from either my own minister or the Lutheran minister).

Of course just because she doesn't have to convert doesn't mean she wouldn't convert.

Either Victoria or William would have to renouce their respective rights if they were to desire a marriage or both countries would have to agree to having a consort who is a monarch of a different country. With regard to heirs, in that case, a first born daughter followed by a son would not cause a problem as the daughter could inherit Sweden and Britain could have the son!!!

 

[Furienna]

I think, if Victoria was to marry William or any heir to any other country, she would have to give up her rights to the Swedish crown, and Carl Philip would become crown prince again.

And doesn't William already have titles?

 

[Iluvbertie]

I think, if Victoria was to marry William or any heir to any other country, she would have to give up her rights to the Swedish crown, and Carl Philip would become crown prince again.

And doesn't William already have titles?

William doesn't have any titles at the moment in his own right.

He is styled HRH Prince William of Wales but no actual title yet.

On marriage he will probably get a dukedom.

If his father is king before that happens he will get his father's current titles.

 

[Frothy]

In history of course, there are multiple examples of heir/esses marrying and neither surrendered their thrones cf: Francis II of France, and Mary, Queen of Scots, known through her minority as the "Reine Dauphine" and accorded additional precedence in France because she was the Queen of Scotland.

Nor would anybody marrying Prince William have to convert unless they were Catholic.

 

[acdc1]

What would Kate's title be?

What would Kate's title be if she married William before the Queen died, or before he becomes the Prince of Wales?

 

[Henri M.]

What would Kate's title be if she married William before the Queen died, or before he becomes the Prince of Wales?

The usual route for the spouse of Prince William would be

present situation

His Royal Highness Prince William of Wales
Her Royal Highness Princess William of Wales

then after his father's accession

His Royal Highness The Duke of Cornwall (in Scotland: The Duke of Rothesay)
Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cornwall (in Scotland: The Duchess of Rothesay)

then after his creation as Prince of Wales

His Royal Highness The Prince of Wales (in Scotland: The Duke of Rothesay)
Her Royal Highness The Princess of Wales (Scotland: The Duchess of Rothesay)

then after his accession

His Majesty The King
Her Majesty The Queen

 

[Sg1fan]

Someone correct me, but I believe it would be: HRH Princess William of Wales

 

[Henri M.]

Harry

The usual route for the spouse of Prince Henry (= "Harry") would be

present situation

His Royal Highness Prince Henry of Wales
Her Royal Highness Princess Henry of Wales

then after his father's accession

His Royal Highness The Prince Henry of Wales
Her Royal Highness The Princess Henry of Wales

------------------------------------

but when his grandmother or his father would be so kind to bestow a peerage, then Harry and his wife will be referred with that peerage.
For an example, the Dukedom of Clarence.
Then they will be known as:

His Royal Highness The Duke of Clarence
Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Clarence

 

[Princess Robijn]

then after his father's accession

His Royal Highness The Prince Henry of Wales
Her Royal Highness The Princess Henry of Wales

Shouldn't it be:
His Royal Highness The Prince Henry
Her Royal Highness The Princess Henry

 

[Henri M.]

Shouldn't it be:
His Royal Highness The Prince Henry
Her Royal Highness The Princess Henry

Yep. I forgot he ceases to be 'of Wales'.

In full:

His Royal Highness The Prince Henry of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Her Royal Highness The Princess Henry of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

 

[Suonymona]

Her Royal Highness The Princess Henry would be the title of a married Chelsy Davies? That sounds so...odd.

Her Royal Highness The Princess William is no better, but it does seem to suit Catherine---but not Kate.

Oh well, until someone drops or gets hitched, its mostly theory.

 

[Henri M.]

Her Royal Highness The Princess Henry would be the title of a married Chelsy Davies? That sounds so...odd.

Indeed, 'The Princess Henry' sounds odd but when Harry will become a Peer, he (and his spouse) will be known by their peerage title.
For an example: The Duke and Duchess of Clarence.
Sounds good.
And it would fit perfectly when Clarence House could become their residence.



But we have seen more of these examples (The Empress Friedrich, Princess Andrew of Greece, Princess Michael of Kent)

 

[Warren]

Chances are that royal dukedoms will be granted by HM on the wedding days of the two Princes, so we'll probably never have the situation of 'Princess William' and 'Princess Henry', although 'Princess Harry' does have a certain zing to it.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Chances are that royal dukedoms will be granted by HM on the wedding days of the two Princes, so we'll probably never have the situation of 'Princess William' and 'Princess Henry', although 'Princess Harry' does have a certain zing to it.

I remeber that it was only announce shortly before the wedding of Andrew and Sarah that Andrew became Duke of York - so the militarian comrades of prince Andrew congratulated "TRH The Prince and Princess Andrew" because their greeting could not be changed on such a short notice.

 

[RubyPrincess168]

Charles will inherit the Dukedom as Philip's eldest son. If he is still heir to the throne, he simply adds Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merinoth and Baron Greenwich to his existing titles. If he is King, the Dukedom automatically merges with the Crown and is available again to be re-created for Prince Edward.

The only way William would become Duke of Edinburgh is if both his father and grandfather died before The Queen.

I thought that when Prince Edward married Sophie and they were made Earl & Countess of Wessex it was said that Eddie would inherit Phillip's title of Duke of Edinburgh upon his death.

 

[Suonymona]

Ruby, you and branchg are both right.

If the Queen is still living when Philip dies, my understanding is that the title actually goes to Charles as the oldest male descendant but there is an "understanding" he will not actually accept it and it will be reverted to the crown Charles will assume.

If Charles is King when Philip dies (obviously after HM Elizabeth) that title goes back into the crown and Charles is free to bestow it upon his youngest brother Edward.

This latter situation has been written as gospel due to the flux around Edward's Earl title when he married. I expect it will happen that way (revertion with latter bestoation), but perhaps Edward is not concerned with more (unless perhaps there is an annual from Edinburgh like there is from the Duchy of Cornwall?) and the rest is Royal presumption.

William will get that Duke title upon his enthonement as King (when most likely both his grandfather and of course his father have died) UNLESS should Edward receive it and have a son. If Edward only sires Louise, she cannot inherit it and it will go back to the crown--where most likely William will be (on the throne).

But in the world of Royalty, there is no stone. Guess we'll have to see who does what when whom dies.

 

[Warren]

Rather than go round in circles, the question of Edward and the Edinburgh dukedom was discussed as recently as December, two pages back from post 103 on.

+ + + + + + + + +

Please note that we have a separate British Forums thread Questions About Titles to discuss titles that don't relate to William and Harry and wives.
v

 

[Suonymona]

This is relevant, but not quite the thread...which I can't immediately locate.

"What if ?" time. IF William and Catherine marry while both HM the Queen and Prince Charles are still alive, is there a title left for William to inherit or would HM have to create a new dukedom/earldom/etc for William-in-waiting?

And would they lose those titles when Charles became King or would they be merged back into the Crown for William to be made PoW?

 

[Warren]

"What if ?" time. IF William and Catherine marry while both HM the Queen and Prince Charles are still alive, is there a title left for William to inherit or would HM have to create a new dukedom/earldom/etc for William-in-waiting?

And would they lose those titles when Charles became King or would they be merged back into the Crown for William to be made PoW?

Any title William receives while both his father and grandmother remain alive will be a new creation.

Titles merge with the Crown on death or succession. When his father becomes King, William will become Duke of Cornwall as well as Duke of [for example] Cambridge, and, at a time of the new King's choosing, Prince of Wales. The titles accumulate until William in turn succeeds to the throne and they merge with the Crown (or, as with Cornwall, pass to his eldest son). So the cycle renews...