The Reported Breakup - April 2007

[ahtikavalentine]

All I can say is that they are the only ones who knows the reasons about the break up

 

[HRH_Liz]

I was very suprised when I heard the rumor. I thought that it was fake. I thought that it was posted because William was going to propose to her but I guess not.

 

[segolen]

That social classifing is SO British Royal Family. Somehow I think Her Majesty and The Duke have their names written all over this . They may not, but that's just my opinion.

the Queen and the Duke never said this. It was a rumor that someone was making a point on this matter....and it was probably the court jester.

 

[Warren]

the Queen and the Duke never said this. It was a rumor that someone was making a point on this matter....and it was probably the court jester.

People who have no connection with William, or Kate, or the Royal Family are coming out of the woodwork and presenting themselves as authoritative "commentators". The media eagerly laps them up and presents their views as 'fact' so that the story can keep on running for another few days.

In reality, they wouldn't have any greater knowledge of the true reasons for the breakup than any of us.

 

[Polly]

I'd be astounded if anything which Kate's mother did or said disconcerted The Queen. C'mon, Queen Elizabeth has been around for a long time, she's met thousands of people who've said the 'wrong' thing to her, she's shown a total acceptance of her children's friends (remember the American, Koo Stark?), and she's shown on more than one occasion that she's tolerant and understanding.

The one thing which really riled me was the 'report' that 'palace insiders' advised that The Queen said "we don't want another Diana". As if Her Majesty would ever say such a thing to Diana's eldest son! It beggars belief! She's just not that sort of person.

Personally, I'm sorry that Kate and William have separated. I thought her level-headed, well-educated, attractive, and a thoroughly modern young woman. If the reports are true and he wanted more freedom to be with his buddies and goof around, fair enough, it happens, and I certainly don't blame him. However, I hope that he will quickly find another young woman with Kate's poise, common sense, and one who is as completely discreet as she's proven to be.

 

[Skydragon]

Two articles regarding the 'class' divide, which reinforce what I tried to say somewhere earlier, that the spiteful comments about Mrs Middleton are written by the wannabes.

Blue bloods and class casualties
"And the Queen is far too kind and wouldn’t have given a stuff how Mrs Middleton introduced herself. She and the royal family don’t know anything about social nuance and all the things we run around with at the lower levels. That sort of snobbery is all about jockeying for position on the next rung down from royalty and all the way down from there.......

.......All this is not just a stick to beat Mrs Middleton with, it’s a stick to beat the royal family with too, as it’s meant to suggest they care about all that".

Proper people don't eat tomatoes

According to Gill, the whole class debate was invented by the middle class and the media and the thing that the upper and lower classes have in common is that neither cares about it. None of this is demonstrated more clearly than the rumour that the Queen is rather partial to Coronation Street

 

[Duchess]

Even if it was a "mutual break-up" (what makes a break-up "mutual" - the only thing I can see is that one party does not put up much resistance when the other is suggesting a split....) it appears as if Kate did not take it as serious or permanent as William - otherwise the widely reported telephone conversation in the parking lot and Kate storming out of the office after the call is quite inexplicable.

I just read an interesting and quite entertaining comment - one quote from it:



Lets Hope Kate Is Not Left Damaged (from This Is Local London)

if find it interesting that the author thinks that william "ruined" catherine's life. nothing could be further from the truth if you ask me. i predict that catherine will do just fine. the last four years have been a wonderful indication of the type of person she is...quietly intelligent and patient. she'll do well in life no matter what.

 

[Pleasedtomeetyou]

Just to put an end to this bizarre Klaus Harmony-addiction article discussion, it would be helpful to note that it is from a satire website/magazine.

The Mail has a lengthy account of Kate's visit to the Mahiki, including a very detailed account of an alleged flirt with a young architect. Looks as if the Daily Mail is trying to make William jealous....

Flirty Kate had designs on me, says architect | the Daily Mail


Having given the whole thing second thoughts, I have come to the conclusion that Kate probably is too smart and thus intimidating for William and he feels that she would get the upper hand in a relationship - even more so as if he does not have an age advantage, so to speak, with both being the same age. With all due respect to the Royal Family, but they are all not exactly brilliant intellectuals and the same is obviously true for William. Kate is no bookworm either, but she has certainly done better during university than William and also has a family background that has apparently made her a tough cookie. It appears that over the past four or five years Kate has grown up much more than William who still appears to be a late teen/early twen - while Kate has become a serious young woman who has left boozing and senseless jokes behind her. Probably William feels more comfortable with a younger, less intelligent and demanding girl than with Catherine. Needless to say that in the long run some Kate-style blood injection would be more useful for the Royal Family than the genes of a B-list actress or model.

 

[ysbel]

Just to put an end to this bizarre Klaus Harmony-addiction article discussion, it would be helpful to note that it is from a satire website/magazine.

The Mail has a lengthy account of Kate's visit to the Mahiki, including a very detailed account of an alleged flirt with a young architect. Looks as if the Daily Mail is trying to make William jealous....

Flirty Kate had designs on me, says architect | the Daily Mail


Having given the whole thing second thoughts, I have come to the conclusion that Kate probably is too smart and thus intimidating for William and he feels that she would get the upper hand in a relationship - even more so as if he does not have an age advantage, so to speak, with both being the same age. With all due respect to the Royal Family, but they are all not exactly brilliant intellectuals and the same is obviously true for William. Kate is no bookworm either, but she has certainly done better during university than William and also has a family background that has apparently made her a tough cookie. It appears that over the past four or five years Kate has grown up much more than William who still appears to be a late teen/early twen - while Kate has become a serious young woman who has left boozing and senseless jokes behind her. Probably William feels more comfortable with a younger, less intelligent and demanding girl than with Catherine. Needless to say that in the long run some Kate-style blood injection would be more useful for the Royal Family than the genes of a B-list actress or model.

I admire Kate but I find it amazing you can deduce all of those conclusions from what little Kate and William have revealed of themselves during their courtship.

I would agree that she looks self-possessed and he is not ready to settle down but the rest of your conclusions appear fanciful.

Perhaps your pejorative terms about William, boozing, senseless jokes, gave your statement less objectivity and credibility than your statement would have had if you had left the damning terms out for they made you seem like a partisan in a fight of who is to blame.

 

[sophie]

Looks happy to me

Those pictures of kate coming out of the club shows that she and william are both fine with the breakup.

 

[Chiyo]

A bit of damning never did anyone harm. When the Abdication crisis was under way, one of the courtiers said that the people want to look up to the King and other royals, not sideways, and certainly not down. As unfair as it is, people do hold the royals to a higher standard to this day, and William could (and is) finding himself in trouble because of his partying (even though it may be normal for other officers!) simply because of his station. It would serve him well to keep that in mind, especially as he approaches his 25th birthday, as comparisons will be made to the Queen who had already married, had children, carried out official duties, and would shortly ascend to the throne in the same time period. It's not fair, but what is fair and what actually happens rarely coincides.

 

[ysbel]

A bit of damning never did anyone harm. When the Abdication crisis was under way, one of the courtiers said that the people want to look up to the King and other royals, not sideways, and certainly not down. As unfair as it is, people do hold the royals to a higher standard to this day, and William could (and is) finding himself in trouble because of his partying (even though it may be normal for other officers!) simply because of his station. It would serve him well to keep that in mind, especially as he approaches his 25th birthday, as comparisons will be made to the Queen who had already married, had children, carried out official duties, and would shortly ascend to the throne in the same time period. It's not fair, but what is fair and what actually happens rarely coincides.

I really wasn't talking about what's fair but the credibility of the statement.

I think its easier not to believe the facts of what someone else is saying when they use loaded words like that. People can blow you off a lot easier by saying you never liked so and so anyway so what you say doesn't matter.

Actually I think some of the facts of what she said was valid, although I didn't share in her pejorative view of William.

If people want to raise the adrenaline on the board and get people energized throwing out highly emotional terms can be useful.

 

[Chiyo]

Heh. I think the past week has been adrenaline-laden enough.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

I really wasn't talking about what's fair but the credibility of the statement.

I think its easier not to believe the facts of what someone else is saying when they use loaded words like that. People can blow you off a lot easier by saying you never liked so and so anyway so what you say doesn't matter.

Actually I think some of the facts of what she said was valid, although I didn't share in her pejorative view of William.

If people want to raise the adrenaline on the board and get people energized throwing out highly emotional terms can be useful.

Ysbel, I read the posting as that of another member with German as the mother tongue and for me it sounded just right - maybe you should put it to the difficulties of writing in a foreign language. But you're right mentioning how you felt when you read this posting - as not only BeatrixFan, Skydragon and myself learned a long time a go: it is better to be very careful with your wording here because of the way others may perceive what you wrote and that makes these forums such a pleasant place to visit day after day.

 

[Pleasedtomeetyou]

What I wanted to point out was that Kate and William probably faced a problem many young couples in the mid-20s face: At 23, 24, girls tend to be more grown up than many boys who are often still more focused on drinking, childish jokes, having fun in general and less committed to a serious relationship. It is a bit like in the 13-16 time bracket. A natural reaction of many girls facing such a situation is to look for some older guys, while boys find it more interesting to look for a girl in her late teens - but if your boyfriends happens to be the heir to the throne, you are probably willing to put up with a bit more than you would otherwise be.

Apart from that, I am somewhat surprised that here it is seriously frowned upon if one simply states a fact about what William does. If he is heard saying "let's drink the menue" and acts accordingly, to me that is boozing. And as such behaviour has be noted quite a few times, it is fair to say that he is partying a lot. In my opinion, with such a behaviour he neither does the Royal Family nor his role as an officer a favour. Quite honestly, officers lead by example, and if I know that I am in the public spotlight because I happen to be the heir to the throne as well, I do not let it happen to be seen drinking a lot in public and staggering out of watering-holes. If some reports are to be believed, this is not my personal view, but also the view of some royal advisers and army officers.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Apart from that, I am somewhat surprised that here it is seriously frowned upon if one simply states a fact about what William does. If he is heard saying "let's drink the menue" and acts accordingly, to me that is boozing.

You're right, of course, or you would be if this quote "let's drink the menue" was as fact. But it isn't . It's just a paper claiming some unknown source said that the prince said this. What I like her on TRF is that opinions should not be based on hearsay or (potential if not known made-up) media reports but on respectable sources.

Hope this helps.

 

[ysbel]

Ysbel, I read the posting as that of another member with German as the mother tongue and for me it sounded just right - maybe you should put it to the difficulties of writing in a foreign language. But you're right mentioning how you felt when you read this posting - as not only BeatrixFan, Skydragon and myself learned a long time a go: it is better to be very careful with your wording here because of the way others may perceive what you wrote and that makes these forums such a pleasant place to visit day after day.

You make a good point Jo. I'm trying to translate some scenes from a German movie and even with the help of some German friends and the fact that English is my native language its still very difficult. I think if I had to write all my posts in German, some things would definitely not come off right.

Thanks for explaining pleasedtomeetyou. I wasn't aware that you were taking your opinions (silly jokes, etc) from generally what you've observed from 20 something men and women. When I was in Germany in my 20s I wasn't aware that the 20 something men were necessarily silly but they may have gotten sillier over time. Actually I thought German young people were a lot more mature than their British or American counterparts.

From what I have heard of William, he is a bit more responsible than Harry as far as the partying goes or either he has a lot more people looking out for his public image. Right now its hard to say which. I think its fair to say that he knows better how to keep up appearances except for during the breakup with Kate. As far as what happened there, again its hard to judge but I daresay that the fallout from their relationship struck him hard as it did her. They showed it in different ways.

As far as expecting something more from heir to the throne, I think you can do it, I just think its unreasonable to expect William at the age of 24 to consistently deliver on those higher expectations. He was chosen to go through this military career with full knowledge of the pitfalls it would entail. Drinking and falling out of bars is not unheard of among officers. I imagine if they are high ranking enough then they've been in the army long enough to know how to hide their indiscretions or else they've learned which discretions are too foolish to make.

But William despite being the heir to the throne is still 24 years old and is still going to have some normal reactions of a 24 year old; he's also not going to know all the tricks to hide his indiscretions as well as a 35-40 year old experienced combat officer. He cannot have the experience and wisdom of a 35 year old who would know better.

I think what the latest headlines show is that yes young men are more immature today but it also shows that William and Harry do not have the protective cocoon around them that previous generations of royal princes have had.

In a business that is family-run and based on heredity, not on merit, the lack of shielding for the younger members can be a major problem for the monarchy.

 

[Skydragon]

You make a good point Jo. I'm trying to translate some scenes from a German movie and even with the help of some German friends and the fact that English is my native language its still very difficult. I think if I had to write all my posts in German, some things would definitely not come off right.

Jo does make a very good point, I find myself trying hard not to phrase my queries in such a way that they can be misunderstood. The English gallows humour or even ordinary English/Scottish humour is not shared by many countries. I find myself hesitating when asking for the 'facts' behind a statement, somewhere I can read in what context and to whom, something was supposed to have been said. There are even vast differences between American English and UK English.

 

[kpusa1981]

All we have seen of him is getting totally drunk last weekend, allegedly burning 11K on money on drinks, while Kate carefully made sure she was seen in public smiling, looking stunning, controlled, mature, almost as if she wants to demonstrate that it is indeed his loss, not hers.

How many drinks would it take to cost 11K? Would even be possible to have that large a tab at a bar?

 

[Pleasedtomeetyou]

The Scotsman provided this excerpt from the menu:

They were said to have ran up a drinks bill of more than £5,000 for magnums of £800 Dom Perignon champagne, £500 on "Treasure Chest" cocktails, and drinks for other clubbers.

I shall hasten to add that the 11K figure is USD, not GBP, and that nobody has actually seen the bill.

 

[kpusa1981]

With all due respect to the Royal Family, but they are all not exactly brilliant intellectuals and the same is obviously true for William. Kate is no bookworm either, but she has certainly done better during university than William and also has a family background that has apparently made her a tough cookie. It appears that over the past four or five years Kate has grown up much more than William who still appears to be a late teen/early twen - while Kate has become a serious young woman who has left boozing and senseless jokes behind her.

They got the same 2:1 degree in History of Art and Geography rescepctively. As to to the boozing she still goes night clubing and besides it unusal for young officers to drink as it also not unusal for young men.

 

[kpusa1981]

I am ask if would be possible even still be concous after drinking that much or drinking 1/4 that bill.

 

[ysbel]

You all make good points ladies which is why the British forums are just the most interesting place to be.

Now about that wine bill which has been intriguing me. It is quite easy to draft up a large bill when ordering Dom Perignon or pricey wine. Last year four investment professionals for an exclusive London financial house were sacked for ordering $25K in food and wine at lunch just for the four of them and they definitely weren't stumbling out of the restaurant. They just ordered rare and pricey wine which brought up the tab.

I think based on what pleasedtomeetyou is quoting the magmums are the majority of the bill. Jo of Palantine knows more about this part of the business than I do but I'm thinking that the pound is going at $2 now so the 5000 pounds you quoted for the magnums is about 10 thousand dollars. The extra 1000 dollars could be the service charge. I imagine on such a large bill, the bar would not leave it to the young men to decide how much they'd tip the waiters.

A magmum, I believe, is about two bottles of regular champagne or 8-10 glasses. 800 pounds per magnum is a bit pricey to me, that's about 400 pounds a regular bottle (or 800 dollars a bottle-I can't believe it!) and magnums usually give you a nice discount over regular bottles I think so I suspect they must have been ordering a special vintage champagne even if it is Dom Perignon.

At 800 pounds a magnum, it looks like they ordered 6 magnums or 12 bottles which turns out to be 40-60 glasses of champagne. Women can usually drink 3 glasses of champagne, men a bit more. If they had 10 strong lads drinking with them (you mentioned they were buying drinks for others), they could polish off 6 magnums during a night with no trouble. If they're drinking that over a short period of time, they could be stumbling a bit though.

Don't get thrown off by the large bill, I think they overpaid for the champagne, that's why they spent so much. Not that wise, but if you have money and can afford it, it must be nice.

What strikes me is that ordering rare and expensive magnums of Dom Perignon in America would seem very pretentious and not very cool among young men - even those that could afford it. They'd order a rare and lethal tequila instead!

 

[Chiyo]

Most bars in the US have something like a 200-500% markup on alcohol, so I'm sure the same applies in GB, and I think those prices double if you're in a VIP area.

 

[Roslyn]

What strikes me is that ordering rare and expensive magnums of Dom Perignon in America would seem very pretentious and not very cool among young men - even those that could afford it. They'd order a rare and lethal tequila instead!

I can't imagine any young Australian men in their mid 20s, even those in the highest of high society, drinking expensive champers and cocktails at a bar - unless it's a gay bar. They might order it for their girlfriends, but young men here drink beer, and sometimes spirits. I can certainly imagine a group of 30+ somethings who have acquired a taste for single malt whisky incurring a hefty bill though

 

[Skydragon]

I shall hasten to add that the 11K figure is USD, not GBP, and that nobody has actually seen the bill.

So really we are talking a bill of £5500, do we know how many people he was with? If it was the normal (6, I believe), that is only £833 each. If you think that a 75cl bottle of Cristal can start around £500 a bottle, they were economical!

 

[Skydragon]

TOFF BREAK FOR WILLS? MORE LIKE BAD TIMING

I HAVE tried really hard to believe that Kate Middleton is a victim of royal snobbery but somehow I just can't manage it.

Mirror.co.uk - News - Top Stories - TOFF BREAK FOR WILLS? MORE LIKE BAD TIMING

 

[Pleasedtomeetyou]

I am not sure if Willian had to pay at all. I read somewhere that when he visits those haunts like the Mahiki or the Bijou he usually drinks on the house because of all the free publicity the bars get with a royal visit. So the figures given are probably just an estimate of what they have drunk, not what they actually paid.


As far as Kate is concerned, I am surprised that quite a lot of people close to William appear to be quite supportive of her. I read in one of the papers that Guy Pelly and Holly Branson are keeping contact with her and one of the tabloids even reports that Zara Philipps is busy organizing a girls' weekend for Kate in Brighton - quite unusal for a cousin of one's ex-lover. We all know how difficult it usually is for mutual friends, let alone relatives after a split-up, and I certainly would not have been surprised if Kate had been dropped like a hot potatoe after the break-up. Obviously this has not happened. Somehow one can get the impression that everybody seems to have difficulties in believing that it is really the end....

 

[hibou]

TOFF BREAK FOR WILLS? MORE LIKE BAD TIMING

I HAVE tried really hard to believe that Kate Middleton is a victim of royal snobbery but somehow I just can't manage it.

Mirror.co.uk - News - Top Stories - TOFF BREAK FOR WILLS? MORE LIKE BAD TIMING

Thanks for the article. Maybe in a couple years if she isn't married they will get back together who knows. You never can tell these days. Maybe they just needed a break to step back from the press pressure and take stock. Maybe he needs a year to see what it's like with women throwing themselves at him just for cash and tiara? Let's hope he doesn't end up like Prince Albert with two kids not in line to the throne and mothers looking for a steady paycheck for life. JMO

 

[Warren]

I shall hasten to add that the 11K figure is USD, not GBP, and that nobody has actually seen the bill.

An earlier report in this thread claimed the bar tab was £800, which is a long way from US$11,000.
It's more a case of "pluck a number out of the air and publish it as fact".