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  #481  
Old 12-29-2006, 03:43 PM
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Zonk, CP Letizia, CP Mary, CP Maxima, CP Mathilde, Pss Alexandra (Denmark), Pss Claire (Belgium) all had careers that put them in contact with everyday people before they were married. Even CP Mette-Marit was working which is admirable considering she was also going to school and raising a child on her own. And Camilla can hardly be used as an example of a work horse now that she has entered the BRF.
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  #482  
Old 12-29-2006, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
Zonk, CP Letizia, CP Mary, CP Maxima, CP Mathilde, Pss Alexandra (Denmark), Pss Claire (Belgium) all had careers that put them in contact with everyday people before they were married. Even CP Mette-Marit was working which is admirable considering she was also going to school and raising a child on her own. And Camilla can hardly be used as an example of a work horse now that she has entered the BRF.
I know that they had work experience...that's why I didn't reference them. Its a bit unfair IMO to totally compare people, as no two people are the same. Kate for example, is what 24? How can you compare her with Letizia, Maxima, Mary, Mathilde, etc...when they are married when they were like late twenties? And really Letizia (married before) and Mette Marit (who had a child not her husbands's). Not a fair comparison. Now if you are doing a comparison with the same women when they were Kate's age..then's thats something else.

And I never said that Camilla is a work horse, not a fan of hers...but considering what she's had to deal with in the last couple of years, I say she is doing a decent job.
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  #483  
Old 12-29-2006, 03:53 PM
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But aren't the new princesses important to note, not just ladies who married 20 and 30 years ago like the ones you referenced? At 24 going on 25, Mary, Letizia, Mathilde and Maxima were all on their way to successful careers and had no time to waste and party even though they were not exactly poor. They were doing something with their lives. They were already independent and wanted their independence. Mette-Marit was already responsible for another human being. I find them admirable is all I'm saying.
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  #484  
Old 12-29-2006, 03:58 PM
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Hi, BeatrixFan. So I see you and I are fascinated by the parallels between the studio system and royal families.
Indeed. I think it's interesting to look at the life of someone like Joan Crawford and compare it with the life of someone like Sarah Ferguson. Joan was an MGM star, the Queen of Hollywood. Every word she said to the press was carefully passed by LD, everyone was "Miss Davis" or "Mr Gable", her image was processed and carefully prepared - but the moment she stopped selling tickets at the Box Office she was out. Sarah Ferguson never cleared everything she said by the Queen, she tried to be a commoner Princess, her image was pretty ghastly and so it was inevitable that she'd take a fall. So, whether you play by the rules or whether you don't, it's when you stop being a benefit to "the firm" that you're dispensed with. Why? Because neither the old fashioned studio system nor the Royal Family can afford mistakes.

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I think what they have in common is the business of imagemaking.
Spot on. It's all in image. Joan Crawford's success only took off once she had an individual image. When she first signed onto MGM, she was rather plain. So LD Meyer had her made-over. She was given trade-marks - eyebrows, big lips, shoulder pads. Sarah Ferguson had the same make-over but she never kept it up. She slipped into the untidy hair, the frumpy clothes and a very clunky way of dealing with the public. So image-making can only be successful when the person being given an image keeps it up.

Now all this in relation to Kate Middleton is quite telling. Notice that Kate has been making a slow entry onto the public scene. At first we saw her only at the odd polo match. Then it was at every polo match. Then we saw her at William's graduation at Sandhurst. It's been a slow and gradual introduction just like LD Meyer slowly introduced his stars. He gauged the public reaction just like the Queen is doing with Kate. If the headlines are good and the people are happy, we see Kate more. If they're bad, she'll disappear. The truth is that whether you're working for the King of Hollywood or the Queen of Great Britain - you play by the set rules.

Quote:
And what is a "true princess" may I ask BeatrixFan ?
Well, there's a very set criteria IMO but it depends on circumstances. If we're talking about a Princess by birth, then it rarely goes wrong. Princesses by birth can be a little more individual if they want to be as long as they turn up at ceremonial events, look good and serve on a few charitable boards of charities they really care about. They're there to support their parents and to represent the country. Princesses by marriage however are very different. They must always stay one step behind so as not to outshine those who are Royal by birth and they should support their husbands. That is their prime function. To support - if they shine in their own right then that's fine as long as they don't try and upstage their husbands or (even worse) their husband's family. They have to look good, have a good relationship with the public but keep their heads down so as not to take centre stage. That isn't their job and it never has been.

For each case, we've got good examples. Princess Alexandra of Kent has been the perfect Princess by birth. She works extremely hard, she married well, shone through and the British people love her very much. She looks glamorous, she knows how to deal with situations and she has class. She's got a style of her own but she also takes on the traditions and the set code that our Royal Family have stuck to for years. The Duchess of Cornwall on the other hand has been the perfect Princess by marriage. She's resisted every opportunity to shine. Everything she says has obviously been cleared with Charles but she gives it a spontaneity that makes it seem like we're hearing it for the first time. She looks good, she has style and she's there when she needs to be - BUT above everything she's there for Charles. Camilla supports Charles and that's her main role. She doesn't upstage or seek attention, she just does her duty and I suppose that's what we expect from our Princesses. Whether by birth or marriage, they have to do their duty whatever the cost may be. And surely that's what we want all the members of our Royal Family to do?
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  #485  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:03 PM
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They are important to note and that is a valid point. My main issue is this...everyone has different expectations, different goals, different life experiences, etc. Its not fair to compare people (who we really DONT know) nor is it fair to put our expectations, judgements on them. Its not fair to compare their ambition and/or careers with Kate. They are totally different people with different goals, life experiences, etc. They met their princes after they had started their careers. Kate met hers before she had a chance to do so. Its not apples and oranges.

And of the lot you reference, I would say only Maxima and Mathilde were not poor...the other three are definitely middle class girls.
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  #486  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:05 PM
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I'd disagree there Zonk. The expectations, goals etc don't come from "everyone" they come from the Queen. Let's not forget - she's the boss and if Kate does marry William, she'll do things the Queen's way or she'll find herself on the divorcee pile pretty quickly.
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  #487  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I'd disagree there Zonk. The expectations, goals etc don't come from "everyone" they come from the Queen. Let's not forget - she's the boss and if Kate does marry William, she'll do things the Queen's way or she'll find herself on the divorcee pile pretty quickly.
Not sure where you are disagreeing . I think Kate will blend in...not make any waves. Based upon everything that I have seen from her (other than the red coat at the graduation) she seems pretty low key. But I think that was an error in judgement (although she did look good!)....sometimes you make a mistake every now and then...and sometimes you have good advisors.
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  #488  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:08 PM
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Well, you said;
Quote:
My main issue is this...everyone has different expectations, different goals, different life experiences
Which I disagree with. It isn't up to "everyone", it's up to the Queen.
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  #489  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:16 PM
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Well word has it that the queen approves of Kate.
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  #490  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:19 PM
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That's still speculation Laviollette. Until the engagement is announced, we don't know that the Queen approves of Kate at all.
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  #491  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:21 PM
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When I made references to expectations, life experiences it was not in reference to the Queen and whether or not Kate could tow the line per se or fulfil the expectations set for by the Queen.

My reference was more so the comparison of Kate's lack of professional work experience, life experiences with other women. Namely Letizia, Mary, Maxima, Mathidle, etc.
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  #492  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:22 PM
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You misunderstand me. You made it sound as if you were saying that Kate only needs approval for "her style" from the British people. And in truth, the British people won't be consulted at all. So the only person that actually matters is the Queen and her opinion of Miss Middleton.
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  #493  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:24 PM
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BeatrixFan, don't you think that as the head of the BRF's imagemaking factory, the Queen will pay at least a little attention to some other opinions of Kate that are out in the press? Not necessarily saying that she will follow the press' lead but surely a little attention to the public perception of Kate is wise for the Queen.
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  #494  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:25 PM
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Well...I wasn't making a reference to her style. And while I agree that the Queen has the final authority...I would think William would have a little say in the matter. Like...does he want to marry her? Understanding that he needs his grandmother approval before doing it.
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  #495  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:26 PM
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William is nominating the daisy for the flower show. The Queen will carry out the final judgement. Let's hope Her Majesty gets out her shears in the new year.
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  #496  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
While some don't think Kate's not working has any bearing on her eventual work ethic as a royal wife, some of us are offended by what we perceive as her lifestyle of holidaying leisure and shopping. Everyone is not going to have the same giddy opinion of this woman.

They call her stunning but she doesn't look it. They call her stylish but she doesn't look all that stylish either. There's nothing wrong with not being those things but I for one am tired of these off-the-mark descriptions of her along with "down to earth" and "middle class". Well she doesn't act like it.
It would be beneficial for everyone if you could list the date and place of all these holidays and shopping expeditions. I look forward to your evidence of all these leisure activities! I also wouldn't say I have a giddy opinion of this girl, I just don't believe it is right to rip her apart, based on the very few articles there have been in the tabloids. If I didn't know some really nice people on here that work, I would start to think that 'workers' (medal in the mail) who post nasty things about her, are, well... not very nice people to work with, to put it mildly!

You don't think she is stunning or stylish, does everyone think you are? Beauty is very much in the eye of the beholder and the only person who has to think she is stunning and stylish is her boyfriend and eventually husband!
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  #497  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:28 PM
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Of course it isn't. She's got to represent the British people. If she turns out to be another clunky and cumbersome Fergie then the institution would be well done away with.
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  #498  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:34 PM
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At Kate's age, many of these princesses were already independent and ambitious. Letizia was in Mexico working for a newspaper, I believe. Maxima was shortly to be in New York. Mary had moved to Sydney to work in real estate. Mathilde was working with children and adults as a speech therapist.

Imo, these ladies have raised the standards that many (not all) of us expect from someone who is going to be working for the rest of their lives and who will lead a life of extraordinary privilege.

When Felipe was rumored to be engaged to the former model Eva Sannum, a member of the Spanish press complained that it would put them on par with the British royal family. What a smack-down to what was once one of the most respected royal houses in the world. It shows what some people think of the expectations and the quality of Windsor wives.
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  #499  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:36 PM
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If Kate does marry into the firm will she blend in and follow the cycle of every british princess who married into the family and not take center stage. Or will she break the cycle like Diana tried to do and come into her own. For now Kate could be a quiet mouse and blend with the windsors but when she gets used to and comfortable in her role will she take center stage. Anything is possible.
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  #500  
Old 12-29-2006, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
BeatrixFan, don't you think that as the head of the BRF's imagemaking factory, the Queen will pay at least a little attention to some other opinions of Kate that are out in the press? Not necessarily saying that she will follow the press' lead but surely a little attention to the public perception of Kate is wise for the Queen.
The Queen will, as always, carefully monitor any situation. She has, IMO, learned a lesson on how fickle some of her subjscts can be!
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