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  #341  
Old 11-23-2006, 08:27 PM
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No I haven't seen photographs of her smiling. I've seen a sort of half-hearted attempt at a smile but obviously smiling is a bit of an effort to the girl and with her busy schedule, I'm not suprised she doesn't have the time to smile.
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  #342  
Old 11-23-2006, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
No I haven't seen photographs of her smiling. I've seen a sort of half-hearted attempt at a smile but obviously smiling is a bit of an effort to the girl and with her busy schedule, I'm not suprised she doesn't have the time to smile.
What do you make of this?

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/200...05_450x410.jpg
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  #343  
Old 11-23-2006, 09:19 PM
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Quite forced and rather unattractive.
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  #344  
Old 11-23-2006, 09:28 PM
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And this:
http://www.story.nl/var/UserFiles/Im...emiddleton.gif

And this

http://en.ce.cn/Life/entertainment/p...8121487016.jpg
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  #345  
Old 11-23-2006, 09:31 PM
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I'll stop now; I'm being naughty

There are better smiling pics out there but I can't find them right now in the right format and haven't the time to look further. Something I did discover, to my surprise, is that there is a Kate Middleton fan site! It has some very nice pics of her on it.
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  #346  
Old 11-23-2006, 09:50 PM
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Already? Out of interest, how many of them are on Job Seeker's Allowance?
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  #347  
Old 11-23-2006, 10:08 PM
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Even Kate Middleton is certainly not my ideal wife for Prince William, we can do nothing about it, can we? Love has its own course. I think it's Prince Charles's attitudes about his sons's love affairs. If they are serious about a girl, let them be. Until they are tired of them or they want to commit themselves to their girlfriends. We never know.
Marriages are for keeps and I think British royal family cannot risk any furture royal marriage without stable martial foundation. If I do mind Kate's middleclass background, I think I have to live with it. After all it is Willam who will spend his life with his wife not us. Sometimes I think it is time to leave heirs' marriage rights outside the succession but then I feel sad because it means the end of long-history family marriage unions and long trace of royal bloodlines.
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  #348  
Old 11-23-2006, 10:15 PM
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The plain and simple fact is that you can't trust commoner-brides who haven't lived. We've had the Diana controversy, the Sarah controversy, the Sophie controversy - the Windsors can't afford any more mistakes. Now Camilla was different because of her age. She's lived, she's been part of controversy before marrying-in and Charles has been a great support for her because he's learned from before. But William and Kate haven't lived yet and they don't know what to expect.

Kate might keep saying she can handle it right up until the wedding night - and in the event, she can't cope. The pressure is too much, she can't deal with it but he married her anyway hoping it'd all be alright. Well, if that happens, it'll be the final nail in the coffin. He can't afford to mess it up and IMO, Kate is a prime example of a mess-up waiting to happen Consort wise. If he were to go for someone of his own kind, they'd realise what was being asked. I don't care about love here, that's their personal business. But I do care about the role of the King and the role of the Queen and the security of the Monarchy and in the coming 50 years, we can't afford to have a couple of wimps on those thrones. It isn't fair on us, it isn't fair on them and it'll make a mockery of all Queen Elizabeth II has done.
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  #349  
Old 11-24-2006, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by love_cc
If I do mind Kate's middleclass background, I think I have to live with it.
Kate....middle class? I don't think anyone from outside of Britain would call her that. She shows no 'visible' signs of making her own way in the world yet is togged out in some pretty serious designer gear. No middle class woman could do that. Working or not, she obviously has serious independent money even if it is just indulgent parents.

On the other hand CP Mary of Denmark could, in all honesty, be called a working class girl. Lets face it, until she met Fred she lived a pretty ordinary life earning her living and paying her own way.

Two totally different women. One pouting about the stress (a little bit precious I think) and the other surmounting what must be overwhelming odds, personally and culturally.

Perhaps it is time for the British to take a leaf from book of European Royalty who have married a wide range of commoners and are seen to be bringing fresh blood the their respective royal families.
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  #350  
Old 11-24-2006, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG
Kate....middle class? I don't think anyone from outside of Britain would call her that. She shows no 'visible' signs of making her own way in the world yet is togged out in some pretty serious designer gear. No middle class woman could do that. Working or not, she obviously has serious independent money even if it is just indulgent parents.

On the other hand CP Mary of Denmark could, in all honesty, be called a working class girl. Lets face it, until she met Fred she lived a pretty ordinary life earning her living and paying her own way.
There are more differences between Kiwis & Aussies than I thought! I can't imagine anyone here calling Mary a working class girl. She has a Commerce/Law degree from the University of Tasmania, and further qualifications in advertising & marketing and her work was in advertising and as sales director for a high-end real estate agency. Her father has a doctorate and is a Professor of mathematics. IMO they are certainly not working class! I would call them upper middle class.

And it takes a great deal more than lots of money to make one upper class.

Quote:
Perhaps it is time for the British to take a leaf from book of European Royalty who have married a wide range of commoners and are seen to be bringing fresh blood the their respective royal families.
I do agree with you here though.
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  #351  
Old 11-24-2006, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn
There are more differences between Kiwis & Aussies than I thought! I can't imagine anyone here calling Mary a working class girl. She has a Commerce/Law degree from the University of Tasmania, and further qualifications in advertising & marketing and her work was in advertising and as sales director for a high-end real estate agency. Her father has a doctorate and is a Professor of mathematics. IMO they are certainly not working class! I would call them upper middle class.
No I wouldn't call Mary 'working class' either! Mary, like Catherine, are IMO, middle class.
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  #352  
Old 11-24-2006, 10:37 AM
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There are three levels of middle class- lower, middle and upper. Upper is just below aristocracy and I don't think Kate's family fit into that. They are business people and definitely middle middle class. Mary is not part of this thread- but she is the same too probably though her father is a professor her mother was only a secretary - lower middle class/. kate went to private/public school so that is definitely middle/upper. Mary went to a state school - lower/ middle.

All of these middle class commoners are not boding well for our future monarchy. Do I want a neighbour as my queen that has to be supported as a state person- don't think so. I like the fact that most aristocrats at least have their own funds and are not totally reliant on state handouts- just the same as those supposed job seekers.

BeatrixFan's posts are the most accurate in my opinion
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  #353  
Old 11-24-2006, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana
There are three levels of middle class- lower, middle and upper. Upper is just below aristocracy and I don't think Kate's family fit into that. They are business people and definitely middle middle class. Mary is not part of this thread- but she is the same too probably though her father is a professor her mother was only a secretary - lower middle class/. kate went to private/public school so that is definitely middle/upper. Mary went to a state school - lower/ middle.
As I said I think both girls are middle class. There are three tiers but, it is lower middle class, middle class and upper middle class. Which school you go to does not determine your social class.
It is a little unfair to say only a secretary, not only do they do a marvelous job, but, some are aristocratic as well.

I would prefer not to see the aristocratic lines watered down any further, but, we have to be slightly realistic. Charles was forced to marry an aristocrat, rather than the woman of his dreams and look what that brought them, years of misery, divided camps.

Separation and divorce bring untold unhappiness for all concerned, as do most arranged marriages.

If William is happy with Catherine, then good luck. She may not have aristocratic breeding but, she seems to act with a decorum that is sadly lacking in most sections of todays society.
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  #354  
Old 11-24-2006, 11:52 AM
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Social status of secretaries for census purposes is lower middle, a non- manual skilled occupation.
Camilla is an aristocrat- she has that background- a grandaughter of the 3rd Baron of Ashcombe, descendant of 1st Earl of Albemarle, the Duchess of Portsmouth- mistress of Charles II.
Decorum with middle class people is eagerly promoted because they don't want to be associated with the lower classes but unfortunately do not really reach the higher classes
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  #355  
Old 11-24-2006, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana
Social status of secretaries for census purposes is lower middle, a non- manual skilled occupation.
Camilla is an aristocrat- she has that background- a grandaughter of the 3rd Baron of Ashcombe, descendant of 1st Earl of Albemarle, the Duchess of Portsmouth- mistress of Charles II.
Decorum with middle class people is eagerly promoted because they don't want to be associated with the lower classes but unfortunately do not really reach the higher classes
Much as I think Camilla is wonderful and have been a lifetime supporter of Charles and Camilla, she is not considered an aristocrat. I am fully aware of her breeding and connections.

I wouldn't know much about census classes, I was merely pointing out that it is not always a good idea to label everyone because of their job, that is not always what determines social class.

Decorum is very much an upper class or aristocratic 'bent'. That is one of the many lessons you are taught at finishing school, if you do not have it naturally. I have to say I have never seen anything on the middle classes promoting it, in what way do they promote it?
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  #356  
Old 11-24-2006, 12:46 PM
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I beg to differ - Camilla is an aristocrat- a member of a privileged class and not necessarily with titles.
Decorum is all about presenting an outward appearance, and that is what the latest commoner middle class newbie royals are also doing, promotion is simply appearance- called "keeping up with the Jones'" in the middle class .
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  #357  
Old 11-24-2006, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana
I beg to differ - Camilla is an aristocrat- a member of a privileged class and not necessarily with titles.
Decorum is all about presenting an outward appearance, and that is what the latest commoner middle class newbie royals are also doing, promotion is simply appearance- called "keeping up with the Jones'" in the middle class .
No, Camilla is not an aristocrat, she may have been a member of the upper class but, here in the UK, that does not make you an aristocrat, which is normally denoted by a hereditary title.

Decorum, I suppose to some might appear to be about 'an outward appearance', in reality it is behaving quietly and with taste, it is about behaving appropriately in any given situation.

Keeping up with the Jones', is best explained thus, if your neighbour/workmate/etc purchases a new car costing £25,000, you go out and purchase a new car costing the same or more, sometimes putting yourself in debt. Nothing to do with decorum, in fact far from it. It is really something that is practised more by the working classes, IMO.

This wiki article should help explain about aristocrats.
In the United Kingdom and other European countries in which hereditary titles are still recognized, "aristocrat" still refers to the descendant of one of approximately 7,000 families with hereditary titles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobility
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristocracy

Now perhaps we can get back to Catherine.
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  #358  
Old 11-24-2006, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliana
I beg to differ - Camilla is an aristocrat- a member of a privileged class and not necessarily with titles.
Decorum is all about presenting an outward appearance, and that is what the latest commoner middle class newbie royals are also doing, promotion is simply appearance- called "keeping up with the Jones'" in the middle class .
I thought Camilla's family was mostly Gentry. Her father was a successful wine merchant and her mother was part of society. That was another reason she wasn't considered suitable enough for Charles, she wasn't top drawer like Diana was.
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  #359  
Old 11-24-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
If he were to go for someone of his own kind, they'd realise what was being asked. I don't care about love here, that's their personal business. But I do care about the role of the King and the role of the Queen and the security of the Monarchy and in the coming 50 years, we can't afford to have a couple of wimps on those thrones. It isn't fair on us, it isn't fair on them and it'll make a mockery of all Queen Elizabeth II has done.
Marriages of royal cousins haven't been uniformly successful either over the years. The Queen Mother and Princess Alice of Gloucester integrated very well into the royal family whereas Caroline of Brunswick most definitely didn't. The marriages of Queen Victoria's grandchildren with assorted princes and princesses weren't all positive experiences either.

These days royals have been raised to expect to find love within their marriage just like most other people. The days when a prince can have a princess as his wife to bear children and accompany him to official engagements, while he has a mistress for his emotional and sexual needs, are long gone thanks to the intrusiveness of the press.
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  #360  
Old 11-24-2006, 11:40 PM
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i agree with skydragon...look wat happened when two aristocrats were somewhat forced to get married. i think if they respect who their partners are and love each other it shouldn't matter wat "class" they are labeled. there are exceptions to that thought though......
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