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  #61  
Old 08-10-2005, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
I'm totally bemused by your statement. The Establishment (and I would be very glad if you explain what exactly you mean by this) would not let the monarchy be weakened by a future King marrying a commoner?
The Establishment is usually considered to be the senior politicians, civil servants, royal advisors, aristocrats, bishops and archbishops, leaders of the armed forces, and other such people who form a tight-knit little group at the top of society.

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And Camilla? Is she the secret daughter of the Queen of Sheba?
Now there's an interesting mental picture...


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You really can't do more common than her (in every sense of the world) and she will be the next Queen (not bad for the daughter of a wine merchant).
However, her family (on both sides) is upper class rather than the middle class that Sophie came from.

Quote:
Beside, I really think you're over estimating the power of the Establishment (whatever it means) over the BRF. It's not the 30's anymore. To kick off William out of the succession line, they will need a very good reason (and that would be a suicide for the monarchy to do so IMO).
Yes, I think the media is a lot more powerful than it was. We're way past the days when there could be gentlemen's agreements between the powers that be at the Palace and the editors of the majr newpapers to suppress or manipulate news. These days the editors seem to take great joy in embarrassing the royal family whenever possible, and there's going to be much less likelihood of the media and the Establishment getting together to manipulate public opinion. They did a very good hatchet job on Edward VIII, but I don't see it being possible in this day and age.
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  #62  
Old 08-10-2005, 03:32 PM
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People, People, we don't even know if this controversy is even real!!! get over yourselves!!!...You guys know how rumors work!!!
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  #63  
Old 08-10-2005, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dutch royal
:p i disagree, i think you must see if you can live together under the same roof. Then you can see if you can live with the habbits and dislike things your partner does. I live 7 1/2 years together with my boyfriend and i asked the grandparents of my boyfriend what they thought of that . The gave us oure blessing ( they have a granddaughter who first lived together with her boyfriend before the got married.)
My parents could not forbid me to live together with him because in the past they did the same thing under the roof of my grandparents.

I respect the people who do not live together because they are religious.
sharing a home out of wedlock doesn't guarantee that things will always work out. not sure about the laws in the Uk but in Canada after a year you have pretty much the same rights as a married couple on certain issues.

i'm no prude when it comes to these kinds of arrangements but since William will one day be head of the church of england, i think it's terrible that he's allowed to live with someone out of wedlock. if the church were to change it's stance on this then that would be fine but he's suppose uphold the churches teachings and by doing this he's not.
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  #64  
Old 08-10-2005, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igilmo
I find there are several different opinions on the topic and I'm happily surprised that this topic is of interest among people.
I have one question for those who disagree with their living together: Why is it not appropriate? Why isn't she the appropriate bride for Wills? According to you, which should be the ideal bride for Wills?

I mean no offence by my questions, it's just a matter of trying to understand the different points of view. If I offend somebody, please I ask for their forgiveness.
i don't think she's an unappropriate bride...we really don't know much about her, although what we have heard is good.

i don't think living together is appropriate because as future head of the church of england william is suppose to represent certain morals and values and living together out of wedlock goes against those morals and values. i'm not saying this makes him a bad person but if the queen is going to allow this sort of thing then perhaps the church should change and make this sort of living arrangement acceptable in the church. i think it was wrong when his father did it as well.
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  #65  
Old 08-10-2005, 05:11 PM
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Lots of royals want to get the best of both worlds. Getting all the benefits of being royal and living a normal life as a non royal would do. I agree that he will have lots of responsabilities when he becomes not just King of England but head of the anglican church and for that reason he must respect the principles and beliefs of the church, even when he does not agree with them.
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  #66  
Old 08-10-2005, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
I don't see any problem with them living together as they were doing that anyway while away at school. Obviously, they have a very good relationship, but as William himself stated when asked, he is not ready to get married.

Kate Middleton does not meet the general rule of a "lady from a good family", which, in the world of the British monarchy and Establishment, means marrying one of your own. Marrying someone who is not a peer or a member of another royal family would be unprecedented for the British monarchy.

Part of your duty as heir is to marry and secure the blood royal for the future. William knows and understands he must marry an aristocratic girl with appropriate British bloodlines for the throne. It simply is a fact of his life.
i don't believe this is quite accurate. Sarah Ferguson wasn't from royalty and her father wasn't a peer either. Neither was Sophie.
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  #67  
Old 08-10-2005, 05:47 PM
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Charles paved the way (to hell)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess
i don't think living together is appropriate because as future head of the church of england william is suppose to represent certain morals and values and living together out of wedlock goes against those morals and values.
If you consider the behavior of his dad, which will be the next head of the Anglican church, not to mention the fact that he isn't even married religiously to his wife... well I really think we are beyond such moral considerations.
Not that I don't deplore it...

BTW, thank you Elpesth for your explanation about the Establishment :) .
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  #68  
Old 08-10-2005, 05:48 PM
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Hehe. I love your subject line.
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  #69  
Old 08-10-2005, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
William will do the same at some point in the future. He's already made clear he is too young to get married, so I think it's a very big leap to assume that he and Kate are headed for Westminster Abbey just because they are living together again.

As far as expenses go, I'm sure everything will be taken care of by William. Kate is not going to be expected to contribute to the household expenses of a multimillionaire grandson of the Sovereign.
IMO, is not good William lives with Kate before marriage, and would worst if in the end he doesn't marry her. I don't think british people would be happy to pay her expenses since she isn't his official fiancee.
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  #70  
Old 08-10-2005, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auntie
with the exception of Belgium they all married commoners, some with scandals and divorces, they obviously had intimate relations with them, and for sure some lived together prior to being married or engaged. I think that is what makes Philipe and Mathilde so attractive to me, their noble way of living before marriage.
I agree. Philipe and Mathilde are a really special couple, and I think they represent the Belgium Monarchy pretty well.
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  #71  
Old 08-10-2005, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess
i don't believe this is quite accurate. Sarah Ferguson wasn't from royalty and her father wasn't a peer either. Neither was Sophie.
Sarah Ferguson's uncle was a Duke so she knew the ropes of the English aristocracy. Unfortunately the English aristocracy is not known for high morals and decency.

I would be delighted if William choses a royal or a nice middle class bride rather than an aristocratic woman. I still think he's too young to be picking a bride and if he's too young to pick a bride, he's too young to live with a woman to find out if she's a suitable bride.

Let him sow some wild oats first.
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  #72  
Old 08-10-2005, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
So our two sources for this information are "Spanish media" and the 'femalefirst' entertainment internet site.
I suppose then it must be true!
Yes, isn't it fab! Even better than the good, old and reliable Mirror
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  #73  
Old 08-10-2005, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Sarah Ferguson's uncle was a Duke so she knew the ropes of the English aristocracy. Unfortunately the English aristocracy is not known for high morals and decency.

I would be delighted if William choses a royal or a nice middle class bride rather than an aristocratic woman. I still think he's too young to be picking a bride and if he's too young to pick a bride, he's too young to live with a woman to find out if she's a suitable bride.

Let him sow some wild oats first.
I don't think there's a duke for an uncle there. I looked in www.genealogy.com to check. They have a page with ancestors of royals.

Otherwise, I agree with you.
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  #74  
Old 08-10-2005, 07:22 PM
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OK iowabelle, i'll have to check my sources there. :) I thought they were accurate.
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  #75  
Old 08-10-2005, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess
i don't believe this is quite accurate. Sarah Ferguson wasn't from royalty and her father wasn't a peer either. Neither was Sophie.
Sarah is well-bred and born both upper class and of the aristocracy. Her father was from a landowning family and served as the Commander of the Sovereign's Escort of the Household Calvary Regiment, played polo with Prince Philip after WW2 and later served as polo manager to Prince Charles.

On her mother's side, Sarah's grandmother was born a Montagu-Douglas-Scott, a cousin of HRH Princess Alice, daughter of the 7th Duke of Beccleuch and 9th Duke of Queensbury, and traced her bloodline to Charles II. In terms of background, Sarah had far more background to marry a royal than Kate Middleton.

Sophie is middle-class, but married to the third son of the Sovereign. There is a difference between marrying a prince of the UK and marrying the heir to the throne. William will be held to a higher standard than Harry or his cousins will when it's time to get married.
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  #76  
Old 08-10-2005, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regina
I don't think british people would be happy to pay her expenses since she isn't his official fiancee.
The British public will not be paying for William's expenses and he has millions of his own private money (a trust from the Queen Mother and another from Princess Diana) to utilize. That's not an issue.
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  #77  
Old 08-10-2005, 08:23 PM
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Rumours swirl of wedding for Prince William http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories
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  #78  
Old 08-10-2005, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Sophie is middle-class, but married to the third son of the Sovereign. There is a difference between marrying a prince of the UK and marrying the heir to the throne. William will be held to a higher standard than Harry or his cousins will when it's time to get married.
Yes, well, mindful of where this high standard landed his father, there's at least an outside chance that they've revised the definition of "suitable" a bit.
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  #79  
Old 08-10-2005, 09:09 PM
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On her mother's side, Sarah's grandmother was born a Montagu-Douglas-Scott, a cousin of HRH Princess Alice, daughter of the 7th Duke of Beccleuch and 9th Duke of Queensbury, and traced her bloodline to Charles II. In terms of background, Sarah had far more background to marry a royal than Kate Middleton.

QUOTE]
Wasn't Sarah's maternal grandmother Doreen Wright? And how was she related to the Duke of Buccleuch and Queensbury? And for how many generations back is it significant that there are members of the aristocracy in your background if you aren't an aristocrat yourself?
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  #80  
Old 08-10-2005, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Yes, well, mindful of where this high standard landed his father, there's at least an outside chance that they've revised the definition of "suitable" a bit.
True, at least somewhat with regard to Prince Charles, although it should be noted he had the chance to marry Camilla Shand in the 70's, but let her slip away with his uncertainty. If he had proposed, it is highly likely Camilla's upper class background would have been deemed acceptable for marriage to the Prince of Wales.

The issue of Diana and Camilla has been exhaustively reviewed. In my opinion, the dalliances of the aristocracy and the royal family are hardly anything new. It is part of their lifestyle, provided you are discreet and never rub it in anyone's face. If anything, Diana's behavior during the marriage was hardly admirable and she had many affairs, most of which were very indiscreet. So, it's hard to see why Charles should be condemned for the rest of his life for doing the same thing his former wife was up to.

Whether Kate Middleton is deemed a candidate for marriage to Prince William remains to be seen. I think the press is getting very carried away and I doubt they are planning to marry anytime soon.
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