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  #101  
Old 09-12-2008, 03:54 PM
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He may represent a portion of the values held by a small percentage of the English, but the criticism of the Beckhams in the non football related media, seem to indicate that many think he is a buffoon and the comments about Victoria are equalled only by the negative comments written by the Mail about Catherine.
I think Beckham is one of the most respected sportspeople in this country. Put aside the bling bling that surrounds him, he is one of the few footballers openly voicing his pride to play for his country, is a great ambassador with children / youngsters and doesn't fall drunken out of pubs. If he was subject to tabloid critizism like other people he wouldn't have been chosen to represent Team GB in Beijing as an ambassador for 2012.

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Contrary to your view, most of the youngsters I know, do not idolise the WAGS or the likes of cocaine Kate, they seem to appreciate more the success of Coleen Roonie, Kylie and Madonna, non binge drinking/snorting role models.
Well, Coleen Rooney, although quite clever I have to admit, is acutally one of the most revealing examples why people are worshipping the WAGs: All you have to do is marry a rich but dumb footballer and use him as a stepping stone for your own career, very simple. And if this doesn't work out, don't worry because you'll be well off after the divorce. Kylie ... ok, maybe but Madonna is quite a dinosaur to the young generation, like from an prehistoric age.

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Standards are different between 'ordinary' people in the two countries, so the comparrison is, IMO, unfair.
I don't think so and back to topic. As Warren pointed out, there were difficulties in the beginning but Daniel was a quick learner whilst Kate has been struggling for years now to understand the media machinery. Or maybe she does understand but doesn't want to adapt to it. Fair enough but here are the consequences - it's not a smear campaign but only the result of the way she choses to live her life.
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  #102  
Old 09-12-2008, 03:58 PM
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The ever fickle public, whilst lauding Diana for trying to give her sons a 'normal' upbringing, now suggesting they are lazy good for nothings because they act like 'normal' rich kids!
Well, the British Royal family has shown inability to keep the family members (I mean all members) and mass media under control. Courtiers and advisers of a various nature failed to duly serve the interests of the institution. So ... as you sow, so shall you reap ... Nothing more, nothing less... We can spend pages debating the subject matter, developing various arguments, and deducing causes/reasons. The bottom line is that the British royal family has lost control over a situation in my personal opinion. Thus, I would not view the bad articles about Ms. Middleton and her family as a smear campaign, but just a usual business.
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  #103  
Old 09-12-2008, 04:09 PM
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Everyone trying to eat their cake and have it too I suppose. Yes, two rich kids living it up is normal although I should imagine that the two princes donīt really realise they are any different from anyone else, if you are born to riches and young enough not to have to do too many accounts and manage estates it is only natural. Lots of good time boys have inherited estates and then had to try and keep them and found out to their chagrin that it isnīt that easy.
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  #104  
Old 09-12-2008, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I think Beckham is one of the most respected sportspeople in this country. Put aside the bling bling that surrounds him, he is one of the few footballers openly voicing his pride to play for his country, is a great ambassador with children / youngsters and doesn't fall drunken out of pubs. If he was subject to tabloid critizism like other people he wouldn't have been chosen to represent Team GB in Beijing as an ambassador for 2012.
He may have been one of the people chosen to represent the British team, but I think if you mentioned him to the majority of Scottish people, they would have objected to his choice. In Scotland, he is seen as an ex English player, not a British player. Those in Scotland, Wales & N. Ireland, have their own sports personalities who do a lot of work with children and the under privilaged. Even Seb Coe was subject to criticism and will continue to be so if the cost of 2012 continues to rise.
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Well, Coleen Rooney, although quite clever I have to admit, is acutally one of the most revealing examples why people are worshipping the WAGs: All you have to do is marry a rich but dumb footballer and use him as a stepping stone for your own career, very simple. And if this doesn't work out, don't worry because you'll be well off after the divorce. Kylie ... ok, maybe but Madonna is quite a dinosaur to the young generation, like from an prehistoric age.
When I mention Kylie and Madonna, it is because they seem to have a huge following amongst many of the young, then again so do The Rolling Stones, Who, Beatles etc. When the youngsters speak about their taste in music it varies widely from Madonna - Rihanna - Prydz - Kid Rock - Verve - Kt Tunstall - Abba etc, etc. Madonna is after my time and I have never rated her music.
Poor little Coleen, fell in love with a boy at school, who then became a well paid footballer and suddenly it is suggested that she realised at this young age, he was going to be rich and famous, so stuck with him just to make herself a 'career'.
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I don't think so and back to topic. As Warren pointed out, there were difficulties in the beginning but Daniel was a quick learner whilst Kate has been struggling for years now to understand the media machinery. Or maybe she does understand but doesn't want to adapt to it. Fair enough but here are the consequences - it's not a smear campaign but only the result of the way she choses to live her life.
Most of the European countries have a different attitude to people in the UK. People on here said 'I'd feel differently about her if she had a job', there followed the job at Jigsaw, 'I'd feel differently if she had a full time job', there followed Party Pieces. Next it will be 'I'd feel differently if she didn't mix with people from the same or higher social group, financial group, sex etc, etc.

If anyone has forgotten, Catherine is a young woman we know virtually nothing about, has never given an interview, is not financed in any way, shape or form by any British taxpayers, has never committed any crime, has never received freebies (as far as we know), has never asked for preferential treatment and as far as we know - unlike some of the young royals - never uttered the 'Do you know who I am line'.
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  #105  
Old 09-12-2008, 06:31 PM
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Well, the British Royal family has shown inability to keep the family members (I mean all members) and mass media under control.
That is what happens in a democracy IMO.
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  #106  
Old 09-12-2008, 06:44 PM
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I wouldn't say Colleen Rooney earns her keep; she got her money by hooking onto Wayne Rooney when he was at Everton.

Victoria Beckham did have a career before David but she doesn't seem to do anything with it now.

But I do think a reason that William and Harry are getting more in the paper is that they are hanging out with groups where people are ready and willing to sell clandestine photos and stories to the press. Some of the photos of Harry were taken at military parties that were offlimits to the press.

This is something that wouldn't have happened to Charles in the Navy and knowing how closeknit the military is, I'm somewhat surprised that its happening to Harry.

I'm not excusing the behavior but it does make a difference in the coverage.
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  #107  
Old 09-12-2008, 07:27 PM
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And which career path exactly should Kate follow??? Nothing she does will be quite right, she will be profiting, trading, etc on her relationship!!! Until she gets a bloody ring on her finger and can walk well groomed and smiling for the general public for life (which she has done so far anyway) She should be doing something else according to the popular opinion. Or at least 'someones' opinion. She is in no mans land until then and why should they move their relationship at our speed and not their own. IMO she is the latest punching bag for journalists who dont have anything better to write about and if they wrote that she had descended from heaven purpose built for England the people who read their articles would gobble it up as quickly as they do the negative comments about her. (please understand I am not a fan of the lady in particular or her fiancee but I dont think any amount of jewellery would be worth the **** she puts up with.) Whether or not she thinks so is a topic for a different thread
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  #108  
Old 09-12-2008, 07:33 PM
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And which career path exactly should Kate follow??? Nothing she does will be quite right, she will be profiting, trading, etc on her relationship!!! Until she gets a bloody ring on her finger and can walk well groomed and smiling for the general public for life (which she has done so far anyway) She should be doing something else according to the popular opinion. Or at least 'someones' opinion. She is in no mans land until then and why should they move their relationship at our speed and not their own. IMO she is the latest punching bag for journalists who dont have anything better to write about and if they wrote that she had descended from heaven purpose built for England the people who read their articles would gobble it up as quickly as they do the negative comments about her. (please understand I am not a fan of the lady in particular or her fiancee but I dont think any amount of jewellery would be worth the **** she puts up with.) Whether or not she thinks so is a topic for a different thread
I really don't envy the situation Catherine is in. She basically has only 2 options; continue waiting for the ring, or call it a day. If she tries to start her own buisness, or even work for a low-profile art gallery, she's going to be critisized. The thing is, if she doesn't work, then a lot of people, including myself, are going to accuse her of being "waity-Katy". That might be unfair, if you think of the situation she is in, but then if you wake up at 7 to be at work at 9, you are hardly going to think about Catherine's "situation", are you? You're just going to see a young woman, who does nothing but wait for her boyfriend to propose, and you're going to ask yourself "is this the woman I want to see as my Queen some day"?
The blame here is on William, imho. If he's serious about her, then he should give her the bloody ring. If he's not, then give the girl a chance to go ahead with her life!
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  #109  
Old 09-12-2008, 07:41 PM
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The thing is, if she doesn't work, then a lot of people, including myself, are going to accuse her of being "waity-Katy". That might be unfair, if you think of the situation she is in, but then if you wake up at 7 to be at work at 9, you are hardly going to think about Catherine's "situation", are you? You're just going to see a young woman, who does nothing but wait for her boyfriend to propose, and you're going to ask yourself "is this the woman I want to see as my Queen some day"?
The blame here is on William, imho. If he's serious about her, then give her the bloody ring. If he's not, then give the girl a chance to go ahead with her life!
I personally think they are young to marry and even though at this point he is my future king I am ok with them living in sin It may be the best option for her security but I am damned if I cared about a man would I give him up because of what some rag wrote about my working life, pride after all is cold company and doesnt keep the feet warm.
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  #110  
Old 09-12-2008, 09:01 PM
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kbear, I agree they can keep each other's feet warm for a few more years till they both decide they are each other's dream.
With the divoce rate being what it is the last thing the BRF needs is a new round of divorces among their youngest generation.....especially a king in waiting.
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  #111  
Old 09-13-2008, 02:39 AM
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I am afraid that I agree more with Amandargt. If he is not going to marry her he is just using her and that is not fair. Maybe she is having a really good time with all the fuss she is having made of her as his girlfriend "perhaps" future queen, but if she is discarded for a later or more suitable model it will be devastating for her and he will just get on with his life. I really think that it was a true breaking up, but after that we saw Kate everywhere the prince went, the same clubs the same parties. The excuse given by some papers was that they had the same friends etc etc. Maybe but it really gave me the feeling she was almost stalking him. He, of course is fond of her and comfortable with her so he just gave in to his feelings against, perhaps his better judgement. It was said at the time that his father had told him that if he didnīt intend to marry the young lady it would be better to break up for her sake - and for me the telling part is this - he did break up with her and the "famous friends that always turn up at these occasions" said that she blamed Prince Charles for the breakup. This may all be gossip and untrue but it convinced me at the time.
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  #112  
Old 09-13-2008, 04:42 AM
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Those two are a bad combination in terms of media coverage. Not only Kate is struggling, I think many people see William as a joke, somebody who hasn't come to terms with his own destiny and is more or less being moved from stint to stint without showing much enthusiasm. He is not much different to what people, including me, critizise Kate for. If he was more of "give me my duties" and "I am interested to do this or this in depth" maybe this whole relationship would be seen in a different light and would reflect better on Kate. For now, they are just seen as two fun-driven people, she does the easy lifestyle what is seen as benefitting from her royal boyfriend who only does what he has to, and even the tasks allocated to him are not completed with the necessary seriousness but point towards a rather worrying immaturity.
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  #113  
Old 09-13-2008, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
I wouldn't say Colleen Rooney earns her keep; she got her money by hooking onto Wayne Rooney when he was at Everton.

Victoria Beckham did have a career before David but she doesn't seem to do anything with it now.
Coleen & Wayne met when she was 12 and began their relationship when she was 16 (in the final year at secondary school). He at that time was a junior member of Everton, had no professional contract and was still living with his parents.

Beckham became 'famous' when he started dating one of the Spice Girls, Victoria.
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And which career path exactly should Kate follow??? Nothing she does will be quite right, she will be profiting, trading, etc on her relationship!!! Until she gets a bloody ring on her finger and can walk well groomed and smiling for the general public for life (which she has done so far anyway) She should be doing something else according to the popular opinion. Or at least 'someones' opinion. She is in no mans land until then and why should they move their relationship at our speed and not their own. IMO she is the latest punching bag for journalists who dont have anything better to write about and if they wrote that she had descended from heaven purpose built for England the people who read their articles would gobble it up as quickly as they do the negative comments about her. (please understand I am not a fan of the lady in particular or her fiancee but I dont think any amount of jewellery would be worth the **** she puts up with.) Whether or not she thinks so is a topic for a different thread
Well said!
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  #114  
Old 09-13-2008, 05:16 AM
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I don't think Kate is in "limbo" because William hasn't proposed yet. Why should she not know when this will occur? I cannot imagine that they haven't talked about this issue since there's been speculation about a possible engagement ever since 2004. I think she does what she wants and I do not have the impression that she would lead her life any differently if she wasn't dating William. I also do not have any reason to believe she's unhappy with her life right now. She appears very content and smily in almost every picture of her we see. Noone can "fake" happiness for some 4 years while under constant public observation. After all she didn't change anything during their (admittedly very short) break-up and there is no indication that she gave up any dream of a certain career for William. To me she always came across like someone who pirmarily wants to marry and have children and not establish herself in a certain career. But some seem to have a huge problem with a woman who isn't after being a business magnate or lawyer, doctor or whatever. How dare she being happy helping out at her parents business! I don't think that' Kate's problem though. She is free to live her life as she wants (for now) as long as she's happy I see no reason to constantly hassle William to propose to her.
However, I have the impression also that William isn't very enthusiastic about his military training that's why I find it rather unfortunate that he is "forced" to do it anyways. He's not interested, he'll not serve in active duty anyways and the impression he'll get from his 5-12 week stints will hardly teach him something about the armed forces he couldn't have learned form simply talking to service men. It is unfortunate that the RF clings to the idea that an heir has to "serve" when he is clearly not... not even mentioning the rather embarrassing PR videos praising him as a "natural" in everything he does from training at Sandhurst to flying airplanes and helicopters to steering ships etc... Obviously noone will buy this.
I think it would have been much wiser to only have him participate in the basic military education in Sandhurst and then have him move on to diplomatic education since that would be his future role anyways. He won't be a soldier, he'll be the head diplomat and representative of his country.
I don't think he'd have any PR "problems" if it wasn't for his own lack of enthusiasm for his role. That has nothing to do with Kate or her life style, IMO. William has to come to terms with his destiny and find a meaningful way to deal with it.
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  #115  
Old 09-13-2008, 06:57 AM
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If Kate is doing exactly what she would have done if she hadnīt met Prince William why did she bother to go to University, she knew she wouldnīt be using her degree? I think she did have ambitions but they stopped the minute William took interest in her. I believe she is in a kind of limbo, not a royal fiancee but with media taking just as much interest in her as if she were. I donīt believe at this point she can do anything. Take a job, not take a job. Mind you the helping with her family internet business is a good excuse. I only saw one photo of her helping and she seemed to be carrying something in her best clothes and very high heels. This may have been unfair to her putting this photo in the papers but when newspapers want to sell they do what they need to do. I took this as a veiled criticism or perhaps not so veiled, so besides marrying William I really donīt know what she should do with her life....unfortunately marriage seems to be the only thing to do after all these years.
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  #116  
Old 09-13-2008, 09:17 AM
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I know many who go to university because they are interested in a certain subject not because they plan a career. She studied history of arts. To what career ambitions does that point? Maybe in the art world as gallerist or curator? As far as I know to get a job in a gallery or as a museum curator one needs at least a master or a PhD, so if she had wanted to take that path she could simply have continued her studies possibly in St. Andrews. I'm sure St. Andrews may have agreed to prolongue the media ban that was already in place. So nothing could really have stopped her if those were her ambitions. Education is not only to qualifie you for a job. Some people like learning just for learning's sake and to broaden their knowledge. Whether that is the case with Kate is of course impossible to know.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:00 PM
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The media ban was arranged between St James Palace (Prince Charle's office at that time) and PCC to protect William and Harry. I don't believe St Andrews University had a part in the negotiation. As Kate was and still is a private citizen, even if she had extended her studies, without a formal engagement with William, she would have no legal standing to ask for a similar arrangement.
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  #118  
Old 09-13-2008, 06:04 PM
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I've just read this article from today's Guardian. It is utter rubbish, of course. However, I think it does show is some grotesque way the opinion that has formed about Catherine.
Now, personally I have nothing against her. On the contrary, I do actually admire her; she's behaved with maturity and dignity all along. I blame William for placing Catherine the stupid situation she's in, at least in the eyes of public. I understand they might have discussed things and know exactly where they are heading, so it's really no one's business what they do and when. But bearing in mind the position William and his wife would eventually occupy, I think the "public opinion" should mean quite a lot for them.

Here is the article I was talking about - stupid but funny.
A peek at the diary of ... Kate Middleton | Life and style | The Guardian
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Old 09-13-2008, 08:26 PM
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You know this girl was the darling of the British media until the agreement to stop publishing paparazzi pics by some of the press.
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Old 09-13-2008, 08:32 PM
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It does seem rather harsh though that William cannot take his time getting to know his future wife and making sure they're right for each other.

The rush for them to get engaged seems rather counter-productive.
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