The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #81  
Old 09-11-2008, 04:36 PM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ella Kay View Post
I'd imagine there have been some pretty serious discussions in the Middleton house over the past few weeks about the danger of the combo of the omnipresent camera and the Internet these days.
Better late than never. Hopefully he will see the light and stay out of sight when he feels naughty.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 09-11-2008, 06:33 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 5,131
I'm not so sure that it's a generational thing, really. There are young people who know how to behave themselves and older people who can behave extremely badly. I'm in fairly early middle age (46). I find the same behaviour disgusting as you do, Menarue. Since James has known that he's sister's been dating Prince William for a while now, he showed bad judgement. Chelsy just seems to lose her brakes when she's out with her friends.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
You call it harmless fun and I call it disgusting behaviour... It is probably the generation gap which is what we are talking about here as well.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 09-11-2008, 06:41 PM
amandamrgt's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I'm not so sure that it's a generational thing, really. There are young people who know how to behave themselves and older people who can behave extremely badly. I'm in fairly early middle age (46). I find the same behaviour disgusting as you do, Menarue. Since James has known that he's sister's been dating Prince William for a while now, he showed bad judgement. Chelsy just seems to lose her brakes when she's out with her friends.
I'm afraid I can't agree with you here. Catherine is dating William, she's not even engaged to him - then why should other members of her family behave themselves other then they naturally would? If my sister were dating William, I would harldly stop to look at my every step because of that. What James Middleton does is his problem, not Catherine's.

As for Chelsy, I would really like to understand what is expected of her when she's with her friends - just sit in the corner, drink only water and say only "hi" and "bye"? She wouldn't have friends left very soon! The fact is, she behaves quite according to her age when hanging out with her friends - she just has fun and behaves naturally.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 09-11-2008, 09:00 PM
MARG's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 3,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Since James has known that he's sister's been dating Prince William for a while now, he showed bad judgement.
I absolutely disagree. She is not engaged so I think he is free to be as silly as he pleases. It does not reflect on Catherine's character etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid
Chelsy just seems to lose her brakes when she's out with her friends.
Lose her brakes? How so?
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 09-11-2008, 11:55 PM
caroline mathilda's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: east coast, United States
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
It happened with Lady Jane Wellesley who dated Charles for two years before he met Diana. She seems relatively happy now; she just got married for the first time. I don't want to go on my soapbox again but I think Lady Jane was the best of the whole lot. She would have made an excellent Princess of Wales and Queen.
Who did she marry? Do you have the article? I agree with you Ysbel. She was the girl with everything.....She came from an aristocratic, historical family and was very modern, a career woman. Jane would have been exemplary in the position of royal consort. I had always hoped that William would have found someone of her ilk.
__________________
I vow to thee my country
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 09-12-2008, 05:33 AM
Little_star's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Well, getting back to the thread topic, I'm wondering if some of these papers are picking up on the me-first attitude of younger people and using it to whip up resentment against the royal family, particularly the younger ones (since that's who some of these disaffected younger people would tend to identify with). If young people can be made to focus their resentment on privileged young royals and others who inherited their wealth, it takes the focus off other areas, such as what the government might or might not be doing that's keeping some of these youngsters from getting ahead.
I hardly think that's the cause. If it were then young people (I loathe that phrase) would be raging against Girls Aloud, or the Beckhams or some other "celebs". There are plenty of people in the public eye who splash their cash around but are not subject to the same criticism. Many of these people are far more extravagant than the younger royals.
__________________
Please give whatever you can to the DEC's Pakistan Floods Appeal. Millions of lives are at risk
http://www.dec.org.uk/index.html
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 09-12-2008, 06:09 AM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star View Post
I hardly think that's the cause. If it were then young people (I loathe that phrase) would be raging against Girls Aloud, or the Beckhams or some other "celebs". There are plenty of people in the public eye who splash their cash around but are not subject to the same criticism. Many of these people are far more extravagant than the younger royals.
I think it has to do with the idea that the Royals symbolise the country and the values the country stand for. That's why people curtsey and that's why people want them to be different, better than the others. In most people there is an inner dream of how their society should be and this dream is in a way represented by those on top of the society. The monarchy with its tradition and rules represents the values of the past which is always more golden than the present. So if the younger Royals behave like you and me they frighten people who don't to loose their dream. Nobody thinks the Beckhams represent society as it should be - they are symbols of society as it unfortunately is and one accepts that. But William's and Harry's drunken nights out and the loose behaviour of the York girls threaten an idea of society that could and should be better than it actually is. So go with Skydragon: it's good that nobody must call William "Sir" because so far he has done things he better had not done and not shown that he is a symbol for a better society.
__________________
'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 09-12-2008, 07:06 AM
Menarue's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cascais, Portugal
Posts: 2,155
Exactly, I agree with Sky and Jo, no one expects the Beckham´s and so called celebrities to symbolise a country´s values but they do expect a Royal family to, otherwise why have one.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 09-12-2008, 08:48 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
Exactly, I agree with Sky and Jo, no one expects the Beckham´s and so called celebrities to symbolise a country´s values but they do expect a Royal family to, otherwise why have one.
The Beckhams are a bad example here. He I would say does represent a countries' value, he got his OBE, remember and might be Sir Beckham at some point in the future. I think Little Star referred more to the Wags, It Girls, "actresses" or "singers" in this country who are famous for all the wrong reasons but adored by the young generation. None of them is being critizised for constant clubbing, bed-hopping, getting drunk or even doing drugs which is partly the fault of the media. With the young royals it's different, royalty is supposed to stand out, lead by example, behave according to longstanding moral and social values - with the right to enjoy lots of privileges in return. If they don't walk the line it will be the first step towards redundancy. Bad luck especially for Kate as she's not royal but is already seen as royal by society.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 09-12-2008, 09:34 AM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
The Beckhams are a bad example here. He I would say does represent a countries' value, he got his OBE, remember and might be Sir Beckham at some point in the future. I think Little Star referred more to the Wags, It Girls, "actresses" or "singers" in this country who are famous for all the wrong reasons but adored by the young generation. None of them is being critizised for constant clubbing, bed-hopping, getting drunk or even doing drugs which is partly the fault of the media. With the young royals it's different, royalty is supposed to stand out, lead by example, behave according to longstanding moral and social values - with the right to enjoy lots of privileges in return. If they don't walk the line it will be the first step towards redundancy. Bad luck especially for Kate as she's not royal but is already seen as royal by society.
DoM You could not articulate my thoughts more concisely.....I have been feeling this way since day one, (Actually for the last few years) but have been "beaten" over the head for expecting the royals, semi and demi royals to behave a bit better than the rest. I feel some expect them to do as they please and still be respected because the accident of their birth allows them to belong to a segment of the society "above" the masses.
By association (IMO) their long term girlfriends and boyfriends are tossed in the mix whether they like it or not.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 09-12-2008, 09:51 AM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odette View Post
DoM You could not articulate my thoughts more concisely.....I have been feeling this way since day one, (Actually for the last few years) but have been "beaten" over the head for expecting the royals, semi and demi royals to behave a bit better than the rest. I feel some expect them to do as they please and still be respected because the accident of their birth allows them to belong to a segment of the society "above" the masses.
By association (IMO) their long term girlfriends and boyfriends are tossed in the mix whether they like it or not.
Odette, neither DoM nor I said that we think this way, we both just described the mechanism which might be the reason why people feel that way. It's very interesting to hear that you actually feel that way - thank you for your contribution!

But it's interesting that people seem to feel that way even after a switch from monarchy to an elected head of state. I recall that the scandal when it turned out that the Head of State of the republic of Austria, Bundespräsident Kurt Waldheim, former UN-general secretary turned out to have had a Nazi-past as a killer was enormous in its importance worldwide but he lost next to no support in Austria. People there said that it was in the past and that the past was over. But when Archduke Karl, eldest son of Otto von Habsburg and a member of European parliament for Austria back then ebcame involved in a political scandal, he lost the support of first his party and then of his voters and thus his mandate at the EU parliament. And this was quite harmless compared to Waldheim ot to the things other Austrian politicians had come away with. So why did the people punish Karl? My explanation is that their expectations are much higher because Karl is today the official Head of the House of Habsburg-Lothringen and that makes the disappointment in him much more pronounced. IMHO, of course.
__________________
'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 09-12-2008, 10:15 AM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Bad luck especially for Kate as she's not royal but is already seen as royal by society.
Catherine Middleton already profits in the eyes of the public from her relationship to the Royals - she gets invitations and shares in the Royal's position in society. Not yet any "official" acknowledgement but certainly she shares part of William's life already which has elevated her to a higher position in society through her contact with Royality and thus she is measured by the different standards used for Royals. We can discuss if this is fair but I think it's at least a fact.
__________________
'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 09-12-2008, 11:30 AM
Odette's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tampa, United States
Posts: 2,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Odette, neither DoM nor I said that we think this way, we both just described the mechanism which might be the reason why people feel that way. It's very interesting to hear that you actually feel that way - thank you for your contribution!

But it's interesting that people seem to feel that way even after a switch from monarchy to an elected head of state. I recall that the scandal when it turned out that the Head of State of the republic of Austria, Bundespräsident Kurt Waldheim, former UN-general secretary turned out to have had a Nazi-past as a killer was enormous in its importance worldwide but he lost next to no support in Austria. People there said that it was in the past and that the past was over. But when Archduke Karl, eldest son of Otto von Habsburg and a member of European parliament for Austria back then ebcame involved in a political scandal, he lost the support of first his party and then of his voters and thus his mandate at the EU parliament. And this was quite harmless compared to Waldheim ot to the things other Austrian politicians had come away with. So why did the people punish Karl? My explanation is that their expectations are much higher because Karl is today the official Head of the House of Habsburg-Lothringen and that makes the disappointment in him much more pronounced. IMHO, of course.
Jo, I guess it all comes down to what standards each are held at.
Those who were born into privilege are expected to hold their position to a higher standard that those who became famous because they are good athletes or famous actors and such.
Kurt Waldheim may have gotten away with murder but his countrymen decided that whatever may or may not have happenned during the war did not seem so serious to them for him to lose his standing. However with AD Karl because he belongs to Royalty he was criticised more harshly.
Double standard of course. But isn't the good old double standard that kept royalty for centuries out of the reach of the rules that applied to the common man?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 09-12-2008, 11:39 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Catherine Middleton already profits in the eyes of the public from her relationship to the Royals - she gets invitations and shares in the Royal's position in society. Not yet any "official" acknowledgement but certainly she shares part of William's life already which has elevated her to a higher position in society through her contact with Royality and thus she is measured by the different standards used for Royals. We can discuss if this is fair but I think it's at least a fact.
... exactly Jo, on the one hand Kate already benefits from her relationship with a royal but on the other hand she doesn't meet the high standards people expect from a royal. The dilemma is that you can't have the best out of both worlds, at least not for such a long time, six years or so. IMO Kate's attitude is to blame as we can perfectly see in Sweden - Daniel Westling is in a similar position (even dating the next monarch) but as he doesn't visibly benefit from his royal relationship and continues to lead his usual low-key and normal lifestyle he is not seen as a royal yet by the public which enables him to stay out of the headlines and get on with his life and business until the big day might occurr. I have no doubt that what is possible for Daniel could be possible for Kate - if only she wanted and acted accordingly.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 09-12-2008, 02:33 PM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,299
Daniel Westling didn't get away with it that easily. I recall there was some controversy of sorts over his gym business, with the usual accusations of "profiteering" or cashing in from his relationship with the Crown Princess. However, things seem to have quietened down on that score, and he's putting on a more respectable (read dressy) front. His wearing of a back-to-front baseball cap garnered a similar reaction as Chely Davy's infamous hoop earrings, and Princess Eugenie's unglowing glow-stick.

Of course, Daniel is another who's still waiting, and waiting... he and Kate should catch up for a chat and compare notes.
__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 09-12-2008, 02:48 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
Catherine Middleton already profits in the eyes of the public from her relationship to the Royals - she gets invitations and shares in the Royal's position in society. Not yet any "official" acknowledgement but certainly she shares part of William's life already which has elevated her to a higher position in society through her contact with Royality and thus she is measured by the different standards used for Royals. We can discuss if this is fair but I think it's at least a fact.
That is clearly a problem, even posters on here seem to believe that she profits from the fact she is his girlfriend, when in reality (as we do not know) she probably doesn't. At best she seems to attract the negative aspects purely from dating someone who may become King.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
The Beckhams are a bad example here. He I would say does represent a countries' value, he got his OBE, remember and might be Sir Beckham at some point in the future. I think Little Star referred more to the Wags, It Girls, "actresses" or "singers" in this country who are famous for all the wrong reasons but adored by the young generation. None of them is being critizised for constant clubbing, bed-hopping, getting drunk or even doing drugs which is partly the fault of the media. With the young royals it's different, royalty is supposed to stand out, lead by example, behave according to longstanding moral and social values - with the right to enjoy lots of privileges in return. If they don't walk the line it will be the first step towards redundancy
He may represent a portion of the values held by a small percentage of the English, but the criticism of the Beckhams in the non football related media, seem to indicate that many think he is a buffoon and the comments about Victoria are equalled only by the negative comments written by the Mail about Catherine. Contrary to your view, most of the youngsters I know, do not idolise the WAGS or the likes of cocaine Kate, they seem to appreciate more the success of Coleen Roonie, Kylie and Madonna, non binge drinking/snorting role models. Although I think we do see a more celebrity based culture amongst the young (12-20 year olds), however is this because the media concentrates on reporting the people who take their 'hero' worship too far?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
IMO Kate's attitude is to blame as we can perfectly see in Sweden
Standards are different between 'ordinary' people in the two countries, so the comparrison is, IMO, unfair.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 09-12-2008, 02:52 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little_star View Post
I hardly think that's the cause. If it were then young people (I loathe that phrase) would be raging against Girls Aloud, or the Beckhams or some other "celebs". There are plenty of people in the public eye who splash their cash around but are not subject to the same criticism. Many of these people are far more extravagant than the younger royals.
This is why I specified in my post that resentment was being focused against privileged youngsters and those who inherited their wealth. People seem to have more time for the Beckhams because they're considered to have earned their millions (whether "earn" is the right word for some of these overpaid celebrities is another matter, but the point is that their money is a result of their success, not a matter of trust funds and legacies), whereas the real resentment is directed toward the "born with a silver spoon in their mouth" demographic.

The Queen has generally tended to avoid these criticisms by being frugal in small things like the well-known "dog leads cost money" admonition to Charles when he was a kid and the stories of her going around Buckingham Palace turning off lights. But Margaret always caught flak for her Caribbean holidays (most people would be envious of a Caribbean holiday where they wouldn't be envious of several weeks' worth of tramping through fields in the rain at Balmoral, despite the latter being a far more expensive proposition, because they themselves would love to have the time and money for luxurious Caribbean holidays but wouldn't find the Balmoral experience all that appealing).

At the moment, William and Harry are falling much more into the Margaret category; even though Prince Charles and Princess Anne frequented night clubs when they were young, it wasn't reported as much; the celebrity culture hadn't taken off by then, and the royals were still somewhat off limits. Now things have changed in both the media and society at large, the royals will have to come to terms with it somehow.

I think it's probably true that Kate isn't going to do it right for them whatever she does - if she gets a job they'll find fault, if she doesn't get a job they'll find fault. That sort of fabricated controversy sells newspapers, so it'll happen regardless. It's just that it seems to me that the Mail has ratcheted it a few notches beyond controversies to a fairly sustained level of attack.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 09-12-2008, 03:00 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
Yes, I think you are right when you say the resentment is aimed at those born into wealth, rather than those perceived as having earned it in some way. Catherine is seen as 'fair game' solely because she is dating one of these rich kids. Some people fail to realise that even inherited wealth has to be managed and invested, unlike the overpaid 'entertainers', there are no funds set up to look after them if they blow it all!

You are also right when you say Catherine cannot win, if she were to get a full time job, she would be stealing the employment from someone who 'really needs it'. The stories of the qualified but turned down would fill the Mail for weeks!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 09-12-2008, 03:23 PM
Al_bina's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 5,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
... [snipped] At the moment, William and Harry are falling much more into the Margaret category; even though Prince Charles and Princess Anne frequented night clubs when they were young, it wasn't reported as much; the celebrity culture hadn't taken off by then, and the royals were still somewhat off limits. Now things have changed in both the media and society at large, the royals will have to come to terms with it somehow. ... [snipped and my bolding]
You have grasped the essence of the situation. It is unfortunate that the younger generation of the royals does contribute to a negative media buzz. Common people expect some controversial behaviour from celebrities, WAGs, and etc. On the other hand, royals/nobles are expected to behave impeccable just because of the aura that surrounds this social stratum.
__________________
"To watch the sun sink behind a flower clad hill.
To wander on in a huge forest without thought of return. To stand upon the shore and gaze after a boat that disappears behind distant islands. To contemplate the flight of wild geese seen and lost among the clouds.
And, subtle shadows of bamboo on bamboo." Zeami Motokiyo
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 09-12-2008, 03:46 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,943
The ever fickle public, whilst lauding Diana for trying to give her sons a 'normal' upbringing, now suggesting they are lazy good for nothings because they act like 'normal' rich kids!
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british royal family, kate middleton, prince william, tabloid press


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Queen Rania's Traffic Awareness Campaigns salma King Abdullah and Queen Rania and Family 31 12-28-2008 03:12 PM
Crown Princess Victoria and the Pink Ribbon Campaign GrandDuchess Crown Princess Victoria, Prince Daniel and Family 10 10-09-2006 09:07 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri habsburg hohenzollern infanta elena infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg ottoman palace pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince felix prince floris prince laurent prince pieter-christiaan princess princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia spain state visit sweden wedding william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:48 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]