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  #61  
Old 09-10-2008, 01:56 PM
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Kate appears to be what upper middle class. And from what I understand..this is some of what they do. They work, travel and play hard...so what's the real issue. Middle class values? Who wants a monarchy that's just like the rest of us...if they are...why do we need a monarchy? What makes them special.

I do agree that Kate needs to be slow down on the holiday's and night clubbing...but then maybe she just needs to be more discreet. If at all possible, travel under assumed names (if that is possible in a post 9/11) . Stop going to the same nightclubs. The press is going to find you if go to the same club every Tuesday.

Again, as of today (to my knowledge) she is not on the Civil List, so what does it matter. If and when she does marry William..she will have to work for her patronages and that entails what....attending openings/seminars, opening hospitals, fundraising, etc. Not to be funny...but what type of experience do you need for that. From what I can see all you really need is a desire to work (attend those openings), an interest in the patronage and be willing to do what they ask of you. She doesn't needs fundraising experience for example, I am sure patronage has someone on the payroll who work to increase their donors. For all we know..she is doing that now and its not in the public view.

I think the press need a whipping boy/girl and until she gets the protection of the Palace she is it. I hope for her sake she does marry William.
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  #62  
Old 09-10-2008, 01:58 PM
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I agree with you about for her sake you hope she marries William. I think it would be very hard on her if this comes to nothing....
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  #63  
Old 09-10-2008, 02:00 PM
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Kate appears to be what upper middle class. And from what I understand..this is some of what they do. They work, travel and play hard...so what's the real issue. Middle class values? Who wants a monarchy that's just like the rest of us...if they are...why do we need a monarchy? What makes them special.

I do agree that Kate needs to be slow down on the holiday's and night clubbing...but then maybe she just needs to be more discreet. Again, as of today (to my knowledge) she is not on the Civil List, so what does it matter. If and when she does marry William..she will have to work for her patronages and that entails what....attending openings/seminars, opening hospitals, fundraising, etc. Not to be funny...but what type of experience do you need for that. From what I can see all you really need is a desire to work (attend those openings) and assist. For all we know..she is doing that now and its not in the public view.

I think the press need a whipping boy/girl and until she gets the protection of the Palace she is it. I hope for her sake she does marry William.
Great post but as kimebear showed, Catherine has done less partying and had no more holidays than the rest of us (less in fact regarding nightclubbing and parties).

If she does or doesn't marry William, lets hope she is having the time of her life, doing what she wants!
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  #64  
Old 09-10-2008, 02:01 PM
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Yes. If not..she will end up on a Royal Wedding Special which will be shown before William marries X, as the girl who dated the Prince for five years! She can be the set up woman. You know ...the girl who dates a guy for a long time....works on his "issues" and they break up...and he marries the next girl he dates.

For the record, I don't think she holidays and clubs a lot. I did the same (without the great exotic locations) when I was her age. She is just the public eye more..that's why I think a little discretion wouldn't hurt.
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:55 AM
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Excellent post Ysbel. It is true that there are many sides to the story and if things will finally turn out good or bad for the monarchy we will only know in many years’ time. I can only speak for myself and I rather prefer a future Queen who “stands for something” to one who doesn’t, whether her name will be Kate Middleton or not, and I believe my opinion reflects the majority of the British people. If it didn’t there wouldn’t be all these stories focussing on Kate and her attitude, I reckon that parts of the discussion are unlucky or superficial, but the blame cannot only lie with the media but also lies with Kate, William and the handling of the BRF. People want to know that royals are there for a purpose and not only enjoying the privileges that come with royal life. In times when even the Queen feels the need to cancel a wedding anniversary reception as the country is facing a recession, it doesn’t give the best of images when the young generation hits the headlines with living the easy life, be it Harry, William or Kate, who has been seen with William for such a long time that she is not only strongly associated with him but also with the lifestyle he leads as royal, although his final commitment towards her keeps missing, for whatever reason. I wonder how long this whole scenario will go on as the only party that currently benefits from the situation is the mass media, selling their magazines. There will be tough times ahead after the death of HM, an icon on the one hand, a cork in the bottle slowing down modernisation on the other hand. The new monarch and his family will have to accommodate the media or public opinion much more than HM ever had to as she is associated with to another era, but that bonus won't be granted to her successor.
Yes, DoM, I think it is a quandry. As much as I would like the royals to stand for something too, Prince Charles stands for something which does make him look more like a real human being rather than an automaton but his stances have not been without problems.

It's worrying though that the main impression that people have of the royals is that they are rather wealthy brats. The Royal Family has always had more money than the rest of us and I cannot see how they can (or should) change that.

I do think the Queen lived up to public opinion in her time but the times and public expectations were very different then than they are now. I think the Queen stands for a image of the British people that may have rung true at one time but that nation does not exist any more. There were economic hardships back then too especially after the war and the Queen Mother was very good at projecting an image of a frugal family which was nonsense because the Royal Family was in a much better position than other families that survived the war but the press was willing to publish those stores and the public was apparently willing to buy the stories that the Royal Family was just like them even though they must have known that the Royals were not. Maybe the public was pushing the press for the nice stories of the Royal Family or the press was pushing them. Who knows? But times have changed.

A large contigency of media consumers are the Generation Y - William's age. In my work, we are re-fitting our programs to attract and retain Generation Y workers and it is difficult. There is a subtle emphasis from the beginning of 'What's in it for me' and you have to show this group what's in it for them upfront before they will listen to what you say. This is where I think the complaint's of William's lifestyle come from. My generation which is a bit older would take a story of William and Kate going on an exotic vacation with interest and then if it sounded fun, we'd see if we could find a cheaper alternative to fit our pocketbooks. William's generation seems like it would more be apt to be angry that William and Kate can afford these lavish vacation and they can't.

I know all people William's age are not like that but enough are to make it a phenomenon that companies, institutions, and the press are having to deal with. William knows this generation best of course, but it is a challenge for the Royal Family to appeal to a market that wants an role model to appeal immediately to their own wants and needs now. Especially since the Royals are born into their position so we get to see their work in progress as they develop into their roles. They are going to have some rough edges as they mature and the Royal Family figures out what to do with them. But there is, it seems, no patience for the Royal Family or for the people who marry into them to develop into their roles.

Right now, I think its hard for the Royal Family to give the people what they want because its so damned difficult to figure out what people want. I think the public and the press are giving mixed signals of what is valuable and what is not and the Royal Family may well be damned if they do and damned if they don't in such a public situation.

I agree with you though that the Royal Family does have to take the bull by the horns and settle on something it does stand for (in as nonpolitical way as possible of course). Its not without risk but at least the people would know what their Royal Family stands for.
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  #66  
Old 09-11-2008, 08:24 AM
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Yes. If not..she will end up on a Royal Wedding Special which will be shown before William marries X, as the girl who dated the Prince for five years! She can be the set up woman. You know ...the girl who dates a guy for a long time....works on his "issues" and they break up...and he marries the next girl he dates.
Spot on. The press did this to Isabel Sartorius in Spain, and a lot of other ex-girlfriends of royals around Europe.
I had a friend who dated a boy from high school until both turned 30, they were considered inseparable and no one would invite one without the other - that is until he met someone else and got married straight off.
He was very happy and she was heartbroken. It happens, without the media spotlight it hurts, but with everyone following every move it could be devastating.
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  #67  
Old 09-11-2008, 08:25 AM
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I believe it can work, but depends very much on the personality of the outsider. If all had been well in the Wales household Charles and his outshining outsider wife Diana IMO would have become the golden couple of monarchy, standing for tradition, modernisation and keeping in touch with the masses at the same time. Sadly, it wasn’t meant to be. Two more examples that worked IMO are Queens Silvia and Rania but to be fair these monarchies are not as much the golden fishbowl the BRF are.
Hi DoM, actually I was thinking of Diana when I wrote that the Royal Family needs a consort that doesn't outshine the monarch. Not wanting to go into the CCD triangle again, I think Diana's tendency to outshine the rest of the Royal Family caused resentment and made it harder for her to be accepted within the family.

The family can import a shining personality but the woman who possesses it may be better off if she tones it down a bit until she is Queen.

But I agree an outsider can bring a fresh face to the monarchy. Queen Mother Elizabeth made a remarkable impression on the Royal Family and on the country. Her approach was to work her relationships within the Royal Family first while keeping a smiling, cheerful face for the public to see. It was only when she became Queen, that she truly came into her own personality in public and she was very successful at it.

There are a lot of things about the Queen Mother to be critical about; however, she was a master at managing perception within the Royal Family and with the public simultaneously.

Can someone else do that? I certainly think so but it is a very tall order.
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  #68  
Old 09-11-2008, 08:29 AM
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Spot on. The press did this to Isabel Sartorius in Spain, and a lot of other ex-girlfriends of royals around Europe.
I had a friend who dated a boy from high school until both turned 30, they were considered inseparable and no one would invite one without the other - that is until he met someone else and got married straight off.
He was very happy and she was heartbroken. It happens, without the media spotlight it hurts, but with everyone following every move it could be devastating.
It happened with Lady Jane Wellesley who dated Charles for two years before he met Diana. She seems relatively happy now; she just got married for the first time. I don't want to go on my soapbox again but I think Lady Jane was the best of the whole lot. She would have made an excellent Princess of Wales and Queen.
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  #69  
Old 09-11-2008, 08:50 AM
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But I agree an outsider can bring a fresh face to the monarchy. Queen Mother Elizabeth made a remarkable impression on the Royal Family and on the country. Her approach was to work her relationships within the Royal Family first while keeping a smiling, cheerful face for the public to see. It was only when she became Queen, that she truly came into her own personality in public and she was very successful at it.

There are a lot of things about the Queen Mother to be critical about; however, she was a master at managing perception within the Royal Family and with the public simultaneously.

Can someone else do that? I certainly think so but it is a very tall order.
I see Queen Silvia in a similar position (very different time & background though) as both Silvia and Queen Mother are / were married to quite weak / insecure men who struggled with the tob job that was thrown at them quite unexpectedly (early death of father / Wallisgate) but were able to come to terms with their fate and succeeded, thanks to the strong women by their side. If Queen Mother is the success story of the gone generation, Silvia is the success story of the present generation who made the difference between tolerated and respected for the Swedish monarchy and I see the need for some more Silvias when I look at the future generation.
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:04 AM
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I see Queen Silvia in a similar position (very different time & background though) as both Silvia and Queen Mother are / were married to quite weak / insecure men who struggled with the tob job that was thrown at them quite unexpectedly (early death of father / Wallisgate) but were able to come to terms with their fate and succeeded, thanks to the strong women by their side. If Queen Mother is the success story of the gone generation, Silvia is the success story of the present generation who made the difference between tolerated and respected for the Swedish monarchy and I see the need for some more Silvias when I look at the future generation.
I don't know too much about Sylvia but from what I know of her, I would agree with you there. I just wish she'd hold off on the plastic surgery.

I think Carl Gustaf looked like a man who knew what he wanted and went out after it which does not make him look very weak even though he had to wait to become King to marry her. A lot of the older generation were dead by this point; His grandfather was dead, I think his mother was dead, so the couple had greater leeway to forge their own destiny and they did it with aplomb.

Can William wait until he is King to marry? It would solve a lot of problems but I think it will be awhile before he is on the throne and he may get caught up in having to find a much younger woman who is able to bear children and I don't like the chances of a marriage like that.

Monarchs are just living too long these days; its tough for someone like the Queen to appeal to a younger generation and its even tough for Charles.
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  #71  
Old 09-11-2008, 09:20 AM
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You are not suggesting euthanasia for Kings and Queens I hope Ysbel! LOL.
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  #72  
Old 09-11-2008, 11:34 AM
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its tough for someone like the Queen to appeal to a younger generation and its even tough for Charles.
Just as well the wrinklies through to the middle aged outnumber the youngsters in the UK!
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Old 09-11-2008, 02:01 PM
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Well, getting back to the thread topic, I'm wondering if some of these papers are picking up on the me-first attitude of younger people and using it to whip up resentment against the royal family, particularly the younger ones (since that's who some of these disaffected younger people would tend to identify with). If young people can be made to focus their resentment on privileged young royals and others who inherited their wealth, it takes the focus off other areas, such as what the government might or might not be doing that's keeping some of these youngsters from getting ahead. This might be the same sort of misdirection that we were seeing after Diana died and the media managed to shift the blame away from itself and onto the royals.
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Old 09-11-2008, 02:15 PM
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Your remarks are quite perceptive, Elspeth. Envy and anger are the easiest emotions to whip up in people. If there's some sort of republican/anarchist goal behind all the negative articles coming out about the young Royals and their friends, the journalist and editors are certainly doing a good job of leading people in that direction.

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If young people can be made to focus their resentment on privileged young royals and others who inherited their wealth, it takes the focus off other areas, such as what the government might or might not be doing that's keeping some of these youngsters from getting ahead. This might be the same sort of misdirection that we were seeing after Diana died and the media managed to shift the blame away from itself and onto the royals.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:00 PM
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I would venture to say that the younger group is the one who mostly defends the actions or inactions of Kate and Co. The previous generation in my view is more critical since whether they inherited or worked for the privileges they enjoy, they sort of resent the attitude of "We do as we please" "We do not owe anyone anything" etc. The older folks are those who see that with privilege comes duty.
I do not want to stray from the subject but there was a thread I cannot find where Kate's brother was photographed in not so tasteful circumstances. Most of the posters blamed the media for publishing the photos. Did anyone besides me think that the DM did not take these photos without his permission?. He looked mighty happy in a French maid's uniform touching himself or sipping cognac in his birthday suit. Whose fault is it that these photos ended up in the paper? Many a young man went to a costume party but if one's sister is possibly so close to the throne is it one''s responsibility to be discreet or the media's duty to reject juicy photos?
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:07 PM
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No choice whatsoever, the media wants to sell newspapers. I saw those pictures and thought it was disgusting behaviour on his part and didnīt further his sisterīs interests in any way. I notice that in quite a few posts about Kate Middleton and her family the word "discreet" appears quite often, well her brother was far from discreet.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:11 PM
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No choice whatsoever, the media wants to sell newspapers. I saw those pictures and thought it was disgusting behaviour on his part and didnīt further his sisterīs interests in any way. I notice that in quite a few posts about Kate Middleton and her family the word "discreet" appears quite often, well her brother was far from discreet.
I guess if one does not talk to the media they are assumed to be discreet since they do not share their life story with the unwashed masses. But as they used to say a picture is worth a thousand words and hopefully for Kate's sake someone will rope that boy in sooner rather than later.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:14 PM
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The photos of her brother have been going around the Internet for a while now just like the ones of Chelsy Davy, and like the ones of Chelsy the DM has only now decided to publish some of them. There are many more of both of them floating around showing two university students just having some harmless fun.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:22 PM
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But as they used to say a picture is worth a thousand words and hopefully for Kate's sake someone will rope that boy in sooner rather than later.
I'd imagine there have been some pretty serious discussions in the Middleton house over the past few weeks about the danger of the combo of the omnipresent camera and the Internet these days.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:32 PM
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The photos of her brother have been going around the Internet for a while now just like the ones of Chelsy Davy, and like the ones of Chelsy the DM has only now decided to publish some of them. There are many more of both of them floating around showing two university students just having some harmless fun.
I havenīt seen any other pictures of anyone else, but it is just a point of view. You call it harmless fun and I call it disgusting behaviour... It is probably the generation gap which is what we are talking about here as well. In this particular case it is the brother of a girl who is dating Prince William and so has generated a lot of interest as many people would like to know more about her family and will naturally look closely but I am fairly sure there would have been some cross words spoken over the dinner table in that family after the DM or the internet published the photos.
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