Smear campaign? And if so, by whom?

[Menarue]

Originally Posted by Isana

She didn't holiday "all the time" this year. She was on three vacations with William Klosters in March/April, Mustique in May, Mustique in August. That's 3 weeks and a very common amount of holidays for European standards. You get about 4-6 weeks off plus bank holidays in Europe. I think in the US it's much less.
Most events she attended (with the exception of the wings and the Garter) took place on weekends - so no sign for her not working either. She was hardly seen out and about enough to leave no time to work at Party Pieces. To the contrary. She was hardly photographed. For example the last pics of her and William clubbing were taken August 15 that's 3 weeks ago.

In Europe three weeks or a month´s holiday is usual, but they are not usually taken in three "doses" and if she was only out clubbing August 15 that was the only time that Prince William had available. I don´t think it is a smear campaign to tell the truth. She asked everyone to call her Catherine and everyone is (at least here). The Duchess of York asked everyone from the day she was married and probably before that, she didn´t want to be called Fergie (who would?) she was Sarah and wanted to be known by her name......hard luck, no one took any notice. So if Kate doesn´t want to be called this that is rather bad luck for her as I don´t think she is as badly treated namewise as Sarah Ferguson was, it sounded very disrespectful and she WAS a royal, married to the Queen´s second son, Miss Middleton is just waiting around so far, perhaps if she does get what she wants in the future, history books will print her name as Catherine.

[Little_star]

Originally Posted by Isana

She didn't holiday "all the time" this year. She was on three vacations with William Klosters in March/April, Mustique in May, Mustique in August. That's 3 weeks and a very common amount of holidays for European standards. You get about 4-6 weeks off plus bank holidays in Europe. I think in the US it's much less.

4-6 weeks?! I think there were would lots of people celebrating in the UK if they did get that amount of time off.

As for her holidays I don't think many companies would allow their employees to take so many holidays in such a small space of time.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Kate's lifestyle is definitely not the lifestyle of an average girl of her age therefore people are interested. If she had a job, do the usual holiday and nights out nobody would care too much about her. She's one of those who don't get that you can't have it both ways - dating the future King and sporting the rich-bored-girl lifestyle under the eyes of the paparazzi but at the same time playing the private citizen card. In case of an engagement she will face a tough time because nobody knows what she stands for as she hasn't visibly done anything substantial for years. Vacation, clubbing, shopping or even editing the online catalogue for her parents' company hardly qualifies somebody as future Queen, at least not a middleclass commoner living in the 21st century.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Little_star

4-6 weeks?! I think there were would lots of people celebrating in the UK if they did get that amount of time off.

As for her holidays I don't think many companies would allow their employees to take so many holidays in such a small space of time.

My husband just finished a 5 week holiday and has another one in November and after Xmas... that's pretty normal here in Germany, where overtime working hours can be added to your 6 week holidays plus bank holidays... Ok he's a research scientist at a state-funded institute but that's how the law is.

[Elspeth]

Just a reminder of this rule:

• Discussion of other forums and websites should be limited to royal-related content. We do not allow criticism of other forums or continuation of disagreements that started elsewhere.

I understand that events at another royalty forum are indeed relevant to this thread. However, that doesn't excuse intemperate accusations against, and outright bashing of, members of other forums (who in some cases are also members here) or the forums themselves. Not every forum has the same subject matter, emphasis, and guidelines, and it would be pretty boring if they all did. We'd like to maintain good relations with the other royalty forums if possible, and some of the earlier posts in this thread aren't exactly calculated to help us do that.

I've done some deleting and editing, and I hope the mods can rely on everyone's good sense about this matter from here on.

Elspeth
for the British Royals moderators

[pinkie40]

From Day One, I noticed the very, very, very subtle undertone that Kate was not "good enough" for Wills in many articles.

Jealousy, perhaps?

No, it's the lack of royal or even aristocratic bloodline, imo.

And, of course, she isn't "good enough". (Sometimes I like to think like a courtier in these matters)

But that's is exactly why William adores her, imo.

[Menarue]

Originally Posted by pinkie40

From Day One, I noticed the very, very, very subtle undertone that Kate was not "good enough" for Wills in many articles.

Jealousy, perhaps?

No, it's the lack of royal or even aristocratic bloodline, imo.

And, of course, she isn't "good enough". (Sometimes I like to think like a courtier in these matters)

But that's is exactly why William adores her, imo.

I am sure there is probably some jealousy among William admirers but I am afraid the one thing I can´t quite agree with you about is the "William adores her" I really can´t see this. He is a young man with a presentable young lady at his complete disposition. She is said to have turned down jobs because she wants to be free when he feels like (or can) see her. On his part he doesn´t show that he feels anything very special for her but then how can anyone know this but it is a "feeling" I get from seeing their photos and whenever one of my sons came home (at last) with that someone really special it was very obvious.

[Zonk]

Kate appears to be what upper middle class. And from what I understand..this is some of what they do. They work, travel and play hard...so what's the real issue. Middle class values? Who wants a monarchy that's just like the rest of us...if they are...why do we need a monarchy? What makes them special.

I do agree that Kate needs to be slow down on the holiday's and night clubbing...but then maybe she just needs to be more discreet. If at all possible, travel under assumed names (if that is possible in a post 9/11) . Stop going to the same nightclubs. The press is going to find you if go to the same club every Tuesday.

Again, as of today (to my knowledge) she is not on the Civil List, so what does it matter. If and when she does marry William..she will have to work for her patronages and that entails what....attending openings/seminars, opening hospitals, fundraising, etc. Not to be funny...but what type of experience do you need for that. From what I can see all you really need is a desire to work (attend those openings), an interest in the patronage and be willing to do what they ask of you. She doesn't needs fundraising experience for example, I am sure patronage has someone on the payroll who work to increase their donors. For all we know..she is doing that now and its not in the public view.

I think the press need a whipping boy/girl and until she gets the protection of the Palace she is it. I hope for her sake she does marry William.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by Zonk

Kate appears to be what upper middle class. And from what I understand..this is some of what they do. They work, travel and play hard...so what's the real issue. Middle class values? Who wants a monarchy that's just like the rest of us...if they are...why do we need a monarchy? What makes them special.

I do agree that Kate needs to be slow down on the holiday's and night clubbing...but then maybe she just needs to be more discreet. Again, as of today (to my knowledge) she is not on the Civil List, so what does it matter. If and when she does marry William..she will have to work for her patronages and that entails what....attending openings/seminars, opening hospitals, fundraising, etc. Not to be funny...but what type of experience do you need for that. From what I can see all you really need is a desire to work (attend those openings) and assist. For all we know..she is doing that now and its not in the public view.

I think the press need a whipping boy/girl and until she gets the protection of the Palace she is it. I hope for her sake she does marry William.

Great post but as kimebear showed, Catherine has done less partying and had no more holidays than the rest of us (less in fact regarding nightclubbing and parties).

If she does or doesn't marry William, lets hope she is having the time of her life, doing what she wants!

[Menarue]

I agree with you about for her sake you hope she marries William. I think it would be very hard on her if this comes to nothing....

[Zonk]

Yes. If not..she will end up on a Royal Wedding Special which will be shown before William marries X, as the girl who dated the Prince for five years! She can be the set up woman. You know ...the girl who dates a guy for a long time....works on his "issues" and they break up...and he marries the next girl he dates.

For the record, I don't think she holidays and clubs a lot. I did the same (without the great exotic locations) when I was her age. She is just the public eye more..that's why I think a little discretion wouldn't hurt.

[Menarue]

Originally Posted by Zonk

Yes. If not..she will end up on a Royal Wedding Special which will be shown before William marries X, as the girl who dated the Prince for five years! She can be the set up woman. You know ...the girl who dates a guy for a long time....works on his "issues" and they break up...and he marries the next girl he dates.

Spot on. The press did this to Isabel Sartorius in Spain, and a lot of other ex-girlfriends of royals around Europe.
I had a friend who dated a boy from high school until both turned 30, they were considered inseparable and no one would invite one without the other - that is until he met someone else and got married straight off.
He was very happy and she was heartbroken. It happens, without the media spotlight it hurts, but with everyone following every move it could be devastating.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Menarue

Spot on. The press did this to Isabel Sartorius in Spain, and a lot of other ex-girlfriends of royals around Europe.
I had a friend who dated a boy from high school until both turned 30, they were considered inseparable and no one would invite one without the other - that is until he met someone else and got married straight off.
He was very happy and she was heartbroken. It happens, without the media spotlight it hurts, but with everyone following every move it could be devastating.

It happened with Lady Jane Wellesley who dated Charles for two years before he met Diana. She seems relatively happy now; she just got married for the first time. I don't want to go on my soapbox again but I think Lady Jane was the best of the whole lot. She would have made an excellent Princess of Wales and Queen.

[caroline mathilda]

Originally Posted by ysbel

It happened with Lady Jane Wellesley who dated Charles for two years before he met Diana. She seems relatively happy now; she just got married for the first time. I don't want to go on my soapbox again but I think Lady Jane was the best of the whole lot. She would have made an excellent Princess of Wales and Queen.

Who did she marry? Do you have the article? I agree with you Ysbel. She was the girl with everything.....She came from an aristocratic, historical family and was very modern, a career woman. Jane would have been exemplary in the position of royal consort. I had always hoped that William would have found someone of her ilk.

[ysbel]

I believe it can work, but depends very much on the personality of the outsider. If all had been well in the Wales household Charles and his outshining outsider wife Diana IMO would have become the golden couple of monarchy, standing for tradition, modernisation and keeping in touch with the masses at the same time. Sadly, it wasn’t meant to be. Two more examples that worked IMO are Queens Silvia and Rania but to be fair these monarchies are not as much the golden fishbowl the BRF are.

Hi DoM, actually I was thinking of Diana when I wrote that the Royal Family needs a consort that doesn't outshine the monarch. Not wanting to go into the CCD triangle again, I think Diana's tendency to outshine the rest of the Royal Family caused resentment and made it harder for her to be accepted within the family.

The family can import a shining personality but the woman who possesses it may be better off if she tones it down a bit until she is Queen.

But I agree an outsider can bring a fresh face to the monarchy. Queen Mother Elizabeth made a remarkable impression on the Royal Family and on the country. Her approach was to work her relationships within the Royal Family first while keeping a smiling, cheerful face for the public to see. It was only when she became Queen, that she truly came into her own personality in public and she was very successful at it.

There are a lot of things about the Queen Mother to be critical about; however, she was a master at managing perception within the Royal Family and with the public simultaneously.

Can someone else do that? I certainly think so but it is a very tall order.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by ysbel

But I agree an outsider can bring a fresh face to the monarchy. Queen Mother Elizabeth made a remarkable impression on the Royal Family and on the country. Her approach was to work her relationships within the Royal Family first while keeping a smiling, cheerful face for the public to see. It was only when she became Queen, that she truly came into her own personality in public and she was very successful at it.

There are a lot of things about the Queen Mother to be critical about; however, she was a master at managing perception within the Royal Family and with the public simultaneously.

Can someone else do that? I certainly think so but it is a very tall order.

I see Queen Silvia in a similar position (very different time & background though) as both Silvia and Queen Mother are / were married to quite weak / insecure men who struggled with the tob job that was thrown at them quite unexpectedly (early death of father / Wallisgate) but were able to come to terms with their fate and succeeded, thanks to the strong women by their side. If Queen Mother is the success story of the gone generation, Silvia is the success story of the present generation who made the difference between tolerated and respected for the Swedish monarchy and I see the need for some more Silvias when I look at the future generation.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

I see Queen Silvia in a similar position (very different time & background though) as both Silvia and Queen Mother are / were married to quite weak / insecure men who struggled with the tob job that was thrown at them quite unexpectedly (early death of father / Wallisgate) but were able to come to terms with their fate and succeeded, thanks to the strong women by their side. If Queen Mother is the success story of the gone generation, Silvia is the success story of the present generation who made the difference between tolerated and respected for the Swedish monarchy and I see the need for some more Silvias when I look at the future generation.

I don't know too much about Sylvia but from what I know of her, I would agree with you there. I just wish she'd hold off on the plastic surgery.

I think Carl Gustaf looked like a man who knew what he wanted and went out after it which does not make him look very weak even though he had to wait to become King to marry her. A lot of the older generation were dead by this point; His grandfather was dead, I think his mother was dead, so the couple had greater leeway to forge their own destiny and they did it with aplomb.

Can William wait until he is King to marry? It would solve a lot of problems but I think it will be awhile before he is on the throne and he may get caught up in having to find a much younger woman who is able to bear children and I don't like the chances of a marriage like that.

Monarchs are just living too long these days; its tough for someone like the Queen to appeal to a younger generation and its even tough for Charles.

[Skydragon]

Originally Posted by ysbel

its tough for someone like the Queen to appeal to a younger generation and its even tough for Charles.

Just as well the wrinklies through to the middle aged outnumber the youngsters in the UK!

[Menarue]

You are not suggesting euthanasia for Kings and Queens I hope Ysbel! LOL.

[Elspeth]

Well, getting back to the thread topic, I'm wondering if some of these papers are picking up on the me-first attitude of younger people and using it to whip up resentment against the royal family, particularly the younger ones (since that's who some of these disaffected younger people would tend to identify with). If young people can be made to focus their resentment on privileged young royals and others who inherited their wealth, it takes the focus off other areas, such as what the government might or might not be doing that's keeping some of these youngsters from getting ahead. This might be the same sort of misdirection that we were seeing after Diana died and the media managed to shift the blame away from itself and onto the royals.