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  #61  
Old 05-11-2008, 01:13 PM
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THe Queen usually appoints new Garter Knights on St George's Day (April 23)
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  #62  
Old 05-17-2008, 10:15 AM
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I don't think the Royal appointments for Garter were ever meant to show how worthy a royal was of the honor. In the beginning, it was a military secret society of top soliders and the only royal members were the King and the Prince of Wales and then maybe the PoW heir. Since the King (and the Prince of Wales) were expected to lead England's military efforts whether they were capable or not (and hopefully have enough sense to appoint a deserving general if they were not), their inclusion in the Order was very necessary.

Nowadays, the order is simply to award any deserving Britons which has diluted its original intent somewhat. But if William is going to one day be the head of this organization, I think the thinking is that he has to get in it as soon as possible to know how it works. This way when his time comes to appoint the deserving and hand out the awards he knows what to do.

It does seem that Edward VII started the further dilution of the Garter by appointing his wife, Queen Alexandra, to the Garter. Now, if the royal members were only the Queen, Charles, and William, it would have been perfectly clear that the Royal Appointment was a training assignment for the top spot.

Actually, given William's recent lack of direction, I think its good he's getting these Royal assignments. Hopefully the company of men and women who have achieved much in their lives will act as an example to William and he will hopefully take his position and his life more seriously. At least one may hope.
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  #63  
Old 05-20-2008, 05:45 AM
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Personally if you read Nostradamus you would have wanted this appointment. The 1000 knight is the last and won't live to see his 30th Birthday.

Claire,
don't worry, just to avoid Nostradamus predictions....the Queen appointed also The Lord Luce and Sir Thomas Dunne to be KGs....so Prince William is not the Last at all!!!! Anyhow I hope there is no King Henry IX!!!! And Queen Chelsy!
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  #64  
Old 05-20-2008, 08:23 AM
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Actually, given William's recent lack of direction,
Ysbel - Just thought I would ask if you could explain your comment "given William's recent lack of direction." Wondered how he may have displayed a lack of direction in pursuing a military career?
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  #65  
Old 05-21-2008, 04:26 PM
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would william have kate as his guest for the cermony as Andrew invited fergie in 2006
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  #66  
Old 07-22-2008, 05:25 PM
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"Prince William has incorporated a touching tribute to his late mother in his newly unveiled crest to mark his inauguration into the world's oldest order of chivalry...
Prince William's tribute to Diana, Princess of Wales - Telegraph
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  #67  
Old 07-22-2008, 06:02 PM
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It's such a lovely small gesture on William's part -- I like that he remembers his mother in little ways and continues to incorporate her in his everyday life. It's really touching and a very appropriate way to pay tribute to her.

The scallop also reaffirms one thing -- even if he is identified primarily as a Windsor, he still considers himself a Spencer, too.
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  #68  
Old 07-22-2008, 07:51 PM
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What a beautiful nod to his mother.
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  #69  
Old 07-23-2008, 05:00 AM
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It's not a "gesture", it's a central element of Prince William's own Coat of Arms: see here.
The Spencer escallop appears four times: on the lion, the unicorn, across the shield, and on the top-most lion.

Prince Harry's Coat of Arms also incorporates the same Spencer escallop.
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  #70  
Old 07-23-2008, 02:28 PM
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How big a deal is to have material symbol included from someone who was not member of the Royal Family except through marriage? On both the Coat of Arms and Garter Badge where are the Spencer escallop. Is it more promanent on the Coat of Arms or the Garter Badge?
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  #71  
Old 07-23-2008, 02:33 PM
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The Garter crest is just the crest from the coat of arms, so it's equally prominent, although there are more escallops on the coat of arms.

The way certain of the media are making this out to be some new development boggles my mind. He was granted the arms eight years ago. Is part of them being made three dimensional really that "touching"? It's not as if they were just going to pick some other design for the crest in the chapel and he valiantly stepped in and said "Wait! You shall include this escallop gules!" The Telegraph story makes it sound like he got to carve the thing himself and put whatever things he wanted on.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
The Garter crest is just the crest from the coat of arms, so it's equally prominent, although there are more escallops on the coat of arms.

The way certain of the media are making this out to be some new development boggles my mind. He was granted the arms eight years ago. Is part of them being made three dimensional really that "touching"? It's not as if they were just going to pick some other design for the crest in the chapel and he valiantly stepped in and said "Wait! You shall include this escallop gules!" The Telegraph story makes it sound like he got to carve the thing himself and put whatever things he wanted on.
Part of it's coming from the sculptor himself, who said this to the Telegraph writer: "It is a really nice gesture that Prince William has acknowledged his late mother in the design. It is also fairly unusual in royal circles." The article does conflate old information about the maternal symbols on his arms with the new information about the Garter crest, but Ian Brennan, the artist, does make it sound as if Prince William was a part of the design of the crest.

I quite like the image of William, all in his Garter robes, hurrying into the artist's studio and halting proceedings, insisting that scallops must! be! present!
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  #73  
Old 07-23-2008, 05:33 PM
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It is simple. He loves his mother. He is acknowledgeing her, in his way.
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  #74  
Old 07-23-2008, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
The Garter crest is just the crest from the coat of arms, so it's equally prominent, although there are more escallops on the coat of arms.

The way certain of the media are making this out to be some new development boggles my mind. He was granted the arms eight years ago. Is part of them being made three dimensional really that "touching"? It's not as if they were just going to pick some other design for the crest in the chapel and he valiantly stepped in and said "Wait! You shall include this escallop gules!" The Telegraph story makes it sound like he got to carve the thing himself and put whatever things he wanted on.
The Mail follows the same tack, but as the Telegraph article was posted, I didn't bother with it. I thought it 'strange' that they would try to make it sound as if this was a new and exciting design, but it does sell papers!
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  #75  
Old 07-23-2008, 06:46 PM
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Well it is true that he broke with tradition and included part of his mothers arms into his own. It was a nice jesture, just not a recent one as they would have you believe. It did say that his arms would change when he became the Prince of Wales. Any idea of what that would entail? I'm assuming there must be some small difference from the previous Princes of Wales, or is that incorrect?
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  #76  
Old 07-23-2008, 10:11 PM
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I'm assuming there must be some small difference from the previous Princes of Wales, or is that incorrect?
I'm pretty sure they will be the same if he is created PoW.
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  #77  
Old 07-23-2008, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by kpusa1981 View Post
How big a deal is to have material symbol included from someone who was not member of the Royal Family except through marriage? On both the Coat of Arms and Garter Badge where are the Spencer escallop. Is it more promanent on the Coat of Arms or the Garter Badge?

I don't think it's a big deal per se, but according to what that article said, it is not usual for pieces of maternal arms to be incorporated.


Quote:
The decision to recognize his mother is a break with tradition as it is highly unusual for members of the Royal Family to include maternal symbols in their heraldic emblems.

I think maybe that's why. Then again, I could be way off base. It wouldn't be the first time.
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  #78  
Old 07-23-2008, 10:22 PM
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I'm pretty sure they will be the same if he is created PoW.
One could reasonably assume that the arms of Wales would be added to his current arms in an escutcheon. What I wonder is whether his stall carving at Windsor will then be updated? It won't need to be updated when he accedes, of course, as the Sovereign's arms don't change. That being said, it would be a lovely nod to the Welsh people to remove one of the English quarters from the arms, and include the Welsh in its place. Still retaining, of course, the reversed placement of England and Scotland in the arms when in Scotland, and perhaps giving Wales pride of place in Wales, and likewise Northern Ireland.

As for maternal elements in arms.. it's a recent development that it is popular again. Beatrice's difference label includes bees (a reference to her mother's arms, as well as canting on her own name), for example. I suspect the trend will intensify with the next generation of Royals, which isn't a bad thing at all. Of course, once William accedes, the escallop will disappear from his arms. But not from Harry's, of course.
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  #79  
Old 07-24-2008, 01:07 AM
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One could reasonably assume that the arms of Wales would be added to his current arms in an escutcheon.
The eldest son always uses a blank label, though. The coronet on the arms would also change to reflect his new status. And the Welsh badges and Cornish escutcheon would likely be added at the base. There's nothing left to do to make them identical to Charles' current arms at that point.

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That being said, it would be a lovely nod to the Welsh people to remove one of the English quarters from the arms, and include the Welsh in its place.
I agree.
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  #80  
Old 07-26-2008, 12:04 AM
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I wasn't aware of the Nostradamus prediction but that is certain in line with the prediction by Rasputin! Supposedly, according to that mad monk, after a Mountbatten ascends the throne (Prince Charles), England will have one last King (William). Not so far off the possibilty due to the constant republican rumbling and constant criticisms of the royal family.

The red shell certainly brought a tear to my eye. Prince William(along with his brother) is a very sensitive young man in regards to his mum.
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