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  #161  
Old 11-12-2008, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
... This isn't about ordinary security details, it is about the extra costs incurred by taxpayers to enable William and Harry to enjoy an adventure motorcycle ride.
So lets be clear, if the charity event was in wettest wales, and involved visiting a hopsital, that would have been okay?

Your biggest objection again comes across as the boys cannot be seen to be having fun whilst doing charity work. You are certainly entitled to the view, though IMO it does not stick! But we can agree to disagree.
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  #162  
Old 11-12-2008, 12:53 PM
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Which would have been cheaper, the Wales mud or sunny Africa.... Which would have been more exciting, Mud in Wales or the dust in Africa..... Gosh they would be in a dilemma to choose between these wouldn´t they? Especially if cost doesn´t matter. "I can just imagine them asking "can I have special leave to get covered in mud in Wales please"....
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  #163  
Old 11-12-2008, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
So lets be clear, if the charity event was in wettest wales, and involved visiting a hopsital, that would have been okay?

Your biggest objection again comes across as the boys cannot be seen to be having fun whilst doing charity work.
No, that is the interpretation you seem to be determined to try to put on it
*****************
So let us be really, really clear -

They can take 500 bodyguards on an adventure weekend in deepest Peru, as long as they pay, on the bodyguards behalf, the entry fees and extra costs.

The UK taxpayer will continue to pick up the tab for the extra security and normal travel cost, normal board and normal lodging.

The UK taxpayer will not be expected to pay for hire of motorcycles, helmets, surf boards or any other unnecessary costs to ensure these two can have a good time.
******************
I think the people of Wales might object to your suggestion that it is always wet or that by visiting a hospital in Wales, it is A. Not a fun thing to do and B. 2nd rate.
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  #164  
Old 11-12-2008, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
I think we can all be certain that with the negative publicity this has caused, if they had paid the extra money for their 6 security men, it would have been released. I will turn your question on it's head, do any of you have any link to a suggestion they might have paid?
I don't think we have any hard data one way or the other. Which means that it probably isn't safe to jump to conclusions.

As far as I know, William and Harry's expenses are met by the revenues from the Duchy of Cornwall. If all these extra thousands for their PPOs to accompany them on the trek weren't paid for out of Duchy funds, then presumably the Queen would have had to authorise their payment from the funds that she uses to reimburse members of the family who are performing royal duties.
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  #165  
Old 11-12-2008, 02:01 PM
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Has any paper posted a list of the additional cost and how the figure adds up? Did they hire extra security personell for the bike trip or was this their usual security team? I always thought both William and Harry have 3 bodyguards each anyways. Doesn't Scotland Yeard have a special royal "protection squad" anyways who are on stand-by to cover members of the BRF? They are paid regarless of where they go aren't they or do they get additional salary for travels abroad? So what are the additional security costs? Travel expenses and accomodation?

Btw. who decides how much security they get and the overall budget on royal security? Scotland Yard or the RF themselves?
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  #166  
Old 11-12-2008, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
I don't think we have any hard data one way or the other. Which means that it probably isn't safe to jump to conclusions.

As far as I know, William and Harry's expenses are met by the revenues from the Duchy of Cornwall. If all these extra thousands for their PPOs to accompany them on the trek weren't paid for out of Duchy funds, then presumably the Queen would have had to authorise their payment from the funds that she uses to reimburse members of the family who are performing royal duties.
No the payments for security are met, as Jo posted, by the Home Office. HM does not pay for nor authorise payments to SO14, nor are they paid by the Duchy.

I am beginning to question whether anyone actually reads what I have written. It is not about the salaries paid to their security detail, it is about the payments made to enable the security detail to take part, i.e. 6 x 1500 GBP, the hire of 6 motorcycles and the cost of 5 sets of motorcycle outfits. The adventure event was not a royal duty.
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  #167  
Old 11-12-2008, 03:43 PM
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It was a lark disguised as a charitable act.
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  #168  
Old 11-12-2008, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Isana View Post
Has any paper posted a list of the additional cost and how the figure adds up? Did they hire extra security personell for the bike trip or was this their usual security team? I always thought both William and Harry have 3 bodyguards each anyways. Doesn't Scotland Yeard have a special royal "protection squad" anyways who are on stand-by to cover members of the BRF? They are paid regarless of where they go aren't they or do they get additional salary for travels abroad? So what are the additional security costs? Travel expenses and accomodation?
Yes the additional costs were shown early in the thread. Yes, in line with all police units they will receive an overseas payment on top of any overtime earned. The extra cost are, once again the entry fee, the hire of the motorcycles, the cost of protective motorcycle clothing, including helmets and boots.

I have suggested to my friendly MP, that he ask for a full breakdown of the extra expenses paid by taxpayers for this jaunt, it will be interesting to see if any reply is forthcoming or whether this will be resisted with a 'we do not disclose individual extra costs incurred by members of the royal family, by TPTB!
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  #169  
Old 11-12-2008, 03:50 PM
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What does TPTB mean?

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TPTB!
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  #170  
Old 11-12-2008, 04:10 PM
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What does TPTB mean?
The Powers That Be.
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  #171  
Old 11-12-2008, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
No the payments for security are met, as Jo posted, by the Home Office. HM does not pay for nor authorise payments to SO14, nor are they paid by the Duchy.

I am beginning to question whether anyone actually reads what I have written. It is not about the salaries paid to their security detail, it is about the payments made to enable the security detail to take part, i.e. 6 x 1500 GBP, the hire of 6 motorcycles and the cost of 5 sets of motorcycle outfits. The adventure event was not a royal duty.
When royals go on vacation - the sort of vacation where access is difficult and special equipment is required - does the Home Office pony up for whatever's needed for their PPOs to take part? I'm just wondering whether it's standard procedure for royals to be able to decide to do something expensive like climb Everest or take part in a round-the-world yacht race or whatever, and the Home Office just has to fork over the cash for their protection officers to go along, without anyone exercising any oversight.
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  #172  
Old 11-12-2008, 08:37 PM
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I have to say I don't know, the problem seems to have been that the moment if William or Harry say they are going to do some charity work, people forget to ask questions with regard to how much will it cost the taxpayer or they think that it doesn't matter because it is their right to security whatever it costs.

I would imagine if any of them decided to climb Mt Everest, the home office would provide clothing and the like, but I also think, especially as we are apparently officially in a recession, the government would advise HM, who would advise whoever, that it would not be a very good idea.

William and Harrys' PR team seem to be an absolute disaster.
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  #173  
Old 11-12-2008, 09:58 PM
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I really hope there's a way for the royals to reimburse the Home Office for this sort of thing. But it wouldn't surprise me to find that there isn't.
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  #174  
Old 11-13-2008, 04:39 AM
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I don't think we have any hard data one way or the other. Which means that it probably isn't safe to jump to conclusions.
I think that is right - the "facts" are not out there, mere speculation by a few journalists as to who may have paid the costs.

The reality is that here must be agreed upon procedures for these things that we are not necessarily aware of, which must have been adhered to. We can pontificate as to what these procedures might or should be (or give extreme examples to demonstrate our respective points of view), but that is as far as this debate is really going to get.
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  #175  
Old 11-13-2008, 04:42 AM
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I have to say I don't know, the problem seems to have been that the moment if William or Harry say they are going to do some charity work, people forget to ask questions with regard to how much will it cost the taxpayer or they think that it doesn't matter because it is their right to security whatever it costs.
Are you suggesting that an "independent" adjudicator or regulator of some sort be set up to "approve" every charity event a royal might like to get involved in?
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  #176  
Old 11-13-2008, 05:43 AM
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Are you suggesting that an "independent" adjudicator or regulator of some sort be set up to "approve" every charity event a royal might like to get involved in?

Wonderful idea Muriel.
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  #177  
Old 11-13-2008, 11:04 AM
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Are you suggesting that an "independent" adjudicator or regulator of some sort be set up to "approve" every charity event a royal might like to get involved in?
No. I don't think so. There is no need for further control. because the system of Royalty as it works today can only work in future time if the people born Royal show that they are decent people with understanding of the people they should head due to their birth. Charles is decent even though he enjoys his personal wealth. We have unfortunately yet to see if his sons are decent as well. Come to think of it: his nieces yet have to pass the public's examination as well.
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  #178  
Old 11-13-2008, 11:42 AM
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I had actually suggested the regulator in jest. You are right, royalty survives by the will of the people, which will clearly dissappear if the monarch and immediate family fail to demonstrate diginity and decency, amongst a wide range of other qualities.

As regards the current gen-X, I think the York girls are not central to the future of the monarchy, so their passing public examination is not really important. The Wales boys are obviously key, and they seem to have done all right so far, with a few notable exceptions being William's helicopter flights, and Harry in the nazi uniform. It is commendable that they have both embarked on military careers, although they will never be "normal" military careers. The boys will need to look at their father as a role model, on how to constructively use their time whilst waiting for the top job (in the case of Will).
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  #179  
Old 11-13-2008, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Sorry, I don't understand your question or point. I, like many donate money and time on a regular basis to charities I wish to support. The others that might come round once a year, I again donate to if it is a cause/charity I agree with. Unfortunately I have never yet found one that doesn't have it's merits.
My point was that when multiple charities come around- and yes, I too give when I can and I also volunteer for various charities around my home- it gets tiresome when someone is repeatedly coming around with their hand out looking for charitable donations and at a certain point eventually you start saying 'no' and stop talking to the person.

I've had this problem with charities and with friends who do 'good works' for charities. Granted the RF has tons of money, and they really SHOULD have given more if they have the finances for it. However, my point was really that just because the RF (in the form of the princes) is doing this, it doesn't necessarily mean that their friends are obligated to donate for this. That comment was oriented to people talking about the princes finding friends who would donate more- in reference to the $500 sum that was discussed earlier in the thread.

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A simple 'The princes also made a private donation to each of the charities', would have been sufficient.
Yeah, but just because no one has said anything doesn't mean the princes didn't give anything...wouldn't be the first time the PR people have goofed.
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  #180  
Old 11-13-2008, 07:22 PM
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The entry fee is apparently the only money they gave, £1500 that everyone taking part had to pay towards their food, accommodation and guides, so in reality did the charities receive any money.A simple 'The princes also made a private donation to each of the charities', would have been sufficient.Sorry, I don't understand your question or point. I, like many donate money and time on a regular basis to charities I wish to support. The others that might come round once a year, I again donate to if it is a cause/charity I agree with. Unfortunately I have never yet found one that doesn't have it's merits. The organisers gave the information to the media, the 500GBP is the entry fee of 1500GBP broken down to cover the three charities supported this year. What evryone seems to have missed, myself included until this morning, is that the 1500GBP fee, also appears to cover their guides, food and accommodation, which reduces the amount given to charity even more. It is not a charity, it is an event to raise money for selected charities. Now that the esteemed members of TRF know of this event, how many I wonder are going to sign up or sponser someone?
Read the information from the Enduro Africa site, I've posted the link in another post. Each entrant pays 1,500pounds, that is the minimum amount that is given to charity. ( Each entrant can of course raise more money. Sponsors etc would be credited in this account, see blog of participant I posted) Altogether the participants need to pay 4,995pounds, from that amount 1,500pounds is guaranteed to go to charity, the rest of the money pays for the bikes, accomodation, guides etc. All the news article stated was that William and Harry contributed the 1,500pounds minimum to charity and didn't raise more money. But to have participated they along with their entourage would have paid the total fee. Also in the past the motorbikes were donated to Riders for Health, so another charity benefited.
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