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  #41  
Old 10-20-2008, 04:00 AM
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I just wanted to address the point that a number of people have raised about the cost of security for Will & Harry whilst they are on this rally is Afrca. The boys have 24 hour security paid for by the British tax payer, which is a fact of life - whether they are in London, on holiday in Scotland or elsewhere.

Is there any incremental security required becuase they are in Africa? Probably, but I guess the British security services will be working in conjunction with their South African counterparts.

Are some of the security officers being sent with the princes aganst their will? I doubt it - I am sure the people who protect W & H are young red blooded males who, too, would love such an adventure. It may well be that some officers may not have liked to go, but that is for them to agree with their superiors.

Leading us neatly to the bigger point - should the boys be doing this charity event, as opposed to opening a fete, organising a concert or something else - my own view is why not. The event is going to raise money for charity, so why not. The world really does not need another fund raiser gala, but if it did, I am sure the WI could organise it. The trip to Afrca is not funded by taxpayers, and I am guessing it is being done in the boys time off from their military duty.

As far as the boys donating their salaries to charity, that is a separate point, and I think there is some merit inexploring whether Will should be donating his wages entirely to charity.
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  #42  
Old 10-20-2008, 05:32 PM
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I don't think that this qualifies as a holiday, because it's going to be physically demanding and tough work. Also, the Princes were never going to be completely like other Army officers.

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See now I'm just completely confused, I don't know personally I think the Trek is a great idea and I don't see it as just a holiday, but maybe it's just me.
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  #43  
Old 10-20-2008, 06:38 PM
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^Exactly, me too that's how I see it. Even when I first heard about it the first thing that came to my mind was wow this sounds like a great opportunity never once did I say in my head ahh another holiday for those lazy princes or something like that. And I understand that some members here aren't saying it is a holiday but to the people who do view it as a holiday in my personal opinion, I wouldn't classify this as a holiday.
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  #44  
Old 10-20-2008, 06:53 PM
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I'm not so concerned about the taxpayer cost; they would have security regardless of where they were. I get the sense though that if it were just an adventure ride and not for charity, then it would be clearly seen as the Princes goofing off and I object to the princes engaging a thrilling adventure for wealthy young men and people saying it must be OK because its a charity.

It just rubs me the wrong way.
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  #45  
Old 10-20-2008, 07:53 PM
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Same here, either they are play boys, working members of the royal family or they are army officers. Applying for (possibly) extra leave to go on charity jaunts, is wearing a bit thin, you only have to read the comments being left on media sites, to see that the British taxpayer is fed up with it. They are lowering peoples view of the Royal Family.
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  #46  
Old 10-21-2008, 01:36 AM
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Can I just ask and I'm not trying to come off rude or anything just out of curiosity what should they do then that wouldn't be qualified as goofing off or that would be ok with most people here. For me it's not oh it's for charity so it must be ok, but they're young, to me and me only I see it as they're trying to find different type of things to get involved in, in different ways instead of the usual go meet people shake their hands, hold a fundraiser or something like that. I see it as a different aproach in trying to help out. Again that's just me, maybe I'm too immature to understand why people don't like what their doing.
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  #47  
Old 10-21-2008, 02:39 AM
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They are Army officers and that is what they should be doing, they should be doing their army duties. They should be taking the army seriously, do you really think that two army officers taking leave to go off on an adventure are doing charity work? No need to go round shaking hands, they should be giving salutes, taking some and supporting their fellow soldiers some of whom are going off to die, if they are considered too important to be sent off to real danger then they should be doing everything possible to help and support those fellow officers who are being sent and who need to be well trained before they are sent to be given a very good chance of survival.
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  #48  
Old 10-21-2008, 03:16 AM
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But isn't that exactly what they are doing... carrying out their slightly restricted military duties, supporting the armed forces and in their spare time, supporting charities including those that have a military focus (I can't remember the exact charity).

I am not sure of they have been given a special leave of dispensation for this event, or this is part of their normal time off (Does any body have the facts on this?). Surely they are entitled to go on a motor bike rally in their spare time and whilst they are at it, raise some awareness and some funding for some of the causes they support. I can't see what is wrong with that.

I also think a very valid point has been raised above -by virtue of who they are, these boys (and especally, Will) are never going to have completely normal military careers. I don't think there is any evidence to suggest they are not taking the army seriously.
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  #49  
Old 10-21-2008, 05:32 AM
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It is not possible for them to perform the full duties of be army officers without endangering other troops, so they are making the best they can of their situation.
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  #50  
Old 10-21-2008, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
Can I just ask and I'm not trying to come off rude or anything just out of curiosity what should they do then that wouldn't be qualified as goofing off or that would be ok with most people here. For me it's not oh it's for charity so it must be ok, but they're young, to me and me only I see it as they're trying to find different type of things to get involved in, in different ways instead of the usual go meet people shake their hands, hold a fundraiser or something like that. I see it as a different aproach in trying to help out. Again that's just me, maybe I'm too immature to understand why people don't like what their doing.
No, I don't see you as too immature or rude. To start with, they may be young but they are supposedly representatives of the UK, the shining example that warrants the extras they get as members of the Royal Family, this after all is possibly going to be a future King and his brother. There are many ways to raise money for charities, but it does appear that both these boys go for the 'fun', 'adventure' sort, rather than anything else, ie, 'lets have fun and label it charity work'. Further to that, IMO, As Army Officers, they should be working within the army. If they want to do charity work then resign their commissions and do charity work. Let's be honest, unless Harry becomes an instructor, he will never be able to do the job he was trained for, so what is he going to do, in the Army for the next 20 odd years (or whatever he signed up for)? William at least will be moving on to a useful occupation.

As for this trip, special leave was apparently granted, according to the media reports and although the army entitlement is generous, (30 days annual + 8 Bank/Public holidays), they both seem to have spent an awful lot of time on leave.

People allowed their excesses, but now it is time to be seen to knuckle down.
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  #51  
Old 10-21-2008, 05:47 AM
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I feel William and Harry are stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Let's be honest here if both only did the military work they are assigned to (mostly guard duties in barracks, I assume) everyone would complain about them not doing any charity work or royal engagements. If they get time off from the service to do charity work and engagements, that's not right either. So basically people want them to do two jobs, their military service and royal duties basically using their vacation for royal duties and all of that is justified with the fact that tax payers have to fund their security. Does Gordon Brown have two jobs without any holiday because he receives tax funded security or does any other politician?

I also do not see why "fun" charity work should be worth less than any other charity work. I am sure their "fun" events like the Concert for Diana have helped those charities more than any day of them handing out soup to the homeless or sitting in the call center of an Aids help line etc. ever could. How many news outlets report about the daily engagements of Princess Anne that do not include any "fun" activities? So how many people do her engagments reach? Now compare that to William and Harry and tell me their approach is wrong just because it doesn't follow the "traditional" royal way..
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  #52  
Old 10-21-2008, 05:50 AM
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Ahh, Skydragon. You never fail to drive me nuts. Everytime I read one of your posts I want to scream "Get over it", "Move on", "they're just doing things their own way", and then . . . . .

Wham! I have to admit you are absolutely right! (I hate it when that happens!)

These guys really should just drive throught the Station/Base gates, knuckle down, and do some really hard military yakka! That is, after all, their stated desire . . . .
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  #53  
Old 10-21-2008, 05:55 AM
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I, at least, would not include Princess Anne in any mention of Prince William and Harry´s so called charity work...... She is not in the Army and her record for doing charity engagements is very impressive. Are you really serious about how many people her works reach? Save the Children for example.....I think she takes her royal duties extremely seriously. I am not sure about this but I believe she is only second to the Queen for royal engagements.
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  #54  
Old 10-21-2008, 06:01 AM
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I know that she does the most engagements of all royals but is it really the quantity that matters or is it not the result for the charity in question? Of course Harry and William do not compare to her regarding their royal engagements because neither works as a royal full time but for the amount of work they do, I think they have more of an effect with their work than Princess Annne has. Just like Diana was more successful than Anne to raise awareness for her causes though she did not do more engagements than her either. I was just making the point that there is not just one way to go about charity work and that Anne's way to do it, is not necessarily the best or most effective one though it is of course commendable that she takes on so many patronages.
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  #55  
Old 10-21-2008, 06:10 AM
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I, at least, would not include Princess Anne in any mention of Prince William and Harry´s so called charity work...... She is not in the Army and her record for doing charity engagements is very impressive. Are you really serious about how many people her works reach? Save the Children for example.....I think she takes her royal duties extremely seriously. I am not sure about this but I believe she is only second to the Queen for royal engagements.
But Anne at the same age as William and Harry was a full-time equestrian, she was training for various competitions. She definitely wasn't carrying out the kind of workload that she is now! At the ages of 24 and 26 ( same as W & H) she was also doing 'fun' things competing, training for the Montreal Olympics and doing some royal duties on the side. As far as Charity, yes she carries out a lot of engagements and is dedicated but she doesn't do a lot of fundraising engagements. Her engagements are the traditional royal ones, openings, visits to institutions, opening meetings, visits to regiments. Her major workload at the moment is being on the organising committee for the London Olympics. She does excellent work for Save the Children but not through fundraising, but through visiting their projects.
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  #56  
Old 10-21-2008, 06:43 AM
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Princess Anne at the same age as the Princes was not in the Army.
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  #57  
Old 10-21-2008, 06:54 AM
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According to William, it is an adventure.

The fact remains that William & Harry are paid taxpayers money as members of the armed service. William, whether he is prancing about with the SAS or working at the MOD, he receives an officers salary from the army, and he is doing nothing to earn it. The same goes for Harry, who seems to be on permanent leave.

Not good for the image of the royal family!
That basically sums it up for me.

The image the young princes send out is a desaster. Bored or immature comes to my mind and therefore they are always looking for the next adventure around the corner. Harry seemed to have most fun riding his motorbike or playing rugby in the desert when serving in Afghanistan whilst William seemed to have most fun using his helicopter as a transport to get to a stag night or practise some landing sessions in girlfriends garden.

They are meant to be soldiers, employed by the army and paid by taxpayers' money but present themselves as priviliged part-time soldiers who do as they like. Yes it's for charity but it comes across as another welcome opportunity to leave duty behind and have some fun.
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  #58  
Old 10-21-2008, 07:11 AM
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Prince Harry buys a superbike to silence his teasing brother.


Kings of the road: Triumph for Prince Harry as he buys £8,000 superbike to silence his teasing brother | Mail Online
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  #59  
Old 10-21-2008, 08:35 AM
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There are many ways to raise money for charities, but it does appear that both these boys go for the 'fun', 'adventure' sort, rather than anything else, ie, 'lets have fun and label it charity work'.
Taking one step back, if the main aim of any charity work is to raise funding and awareness of the causes one supports, then I cannot see an endurance rally being any less worthwhile than the DoC doing a charity walk. By introducing an element of "fun" and "adventure", I think the boys are reaching out to an audience who may not otherwise be interested in supporting a charity. If as a result of the boys participating, more young people particpate in such events in subsequent years, I think the boys would have delivered another result (in addition to the obvious benefit of raising funding for the causes they are supporting).

'lets have fun and label it charity work' - IMO thats a great result. Having fun whilst achieveing your own objective (ie, the charity work) is a great result! Surely a noble cause is not made more noble by not enjoying oneself.

William and Harry will have enough time in subsequent yars to raise more financing from "conventional" charity fundraising opportunities.

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Further to that, IMO, As Army Officers, they should be working within the army. If they want to do charity work then resign their commissions and do charity work.
I am not convinced that a career in the army and charity work are mutually exclusive, especially as the boys and Will in particular, are not going to have "normal" Army careers. However, I think there is certainly an interesting point being raised here - perhaps the boys should be doing a lot more charity work in relation to the armed forces
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  #60  
Old 10-21-2008, 09:07 AM
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However, I think there is certainly an interesting point being raised here - perhaps the boys should be doing a lot more charity work in relation to the armed forces
Brilliant idea and there would be countless opportunities to do so - but maybe these events don't include enough "fun-factor" for the Princes' taste - such as riding a motorbike - but "only" point at the tough reality of army life.
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