Prince William and Catherine Middleton Possible Titles

[Conorius]

Has anyone thought about the idea that the queen could create a Welsh title for William with a reminder to all firstborn sons (or heirs apparent) of a Prince of Wales? I thought about it when I read that two Welsh hymns will be sung at the wedding service - obviously William and Catherine really love Wales and maybe this is a historic chance to give the Welsh the feeling that the Prince of Wales is really "their" prince and not longer the title of the victorious invader's monarch's heir.

This is a very good idea! Are there any free ducal titles linked with wales left?
Or could the Queen create a specific title in the way that The Dukedom of Windsor was created at the time it was needed?

 

[Lady Ann]

Royal Wedding Schedule: Prince William and Kate Middleton's Wedding Day - ABC News

3:00 a.m. - 4:00 a.m. -- The morning of April 29 will start with an announcement from the Queen's office stating the titles that Prince William and Kate Middleton will take.

 

[LadyCatharine]

NBC this morning, called her Princess Catharine..

 

[Lady Ann]

NBC this morning, called her Princess Catharine..

And so it begins...lol

 

[Royal_Eagle]

Royal Wedding Schedule: Prince William and Kate Middleton's Wedding Day - ABC News

3:00 a.m. - 4:00 a.m. -- The morning of April 29 will start with an announcement from the Queen's office stating the titles that Prince William and Kate Middleton will take.

Ok, so looks like they're probably going to get a title then. Time to place your bets!

(For the record, I am not condoning anything such as betting on titles, etc, that may be illegal in your location. )

 

[KPWillie]

My prediction is that they will be the Prince and Princess of Cambridge. My reason for this guess is that the last official visit the Queen made before the wedding was to Cambridge.

 

[Lady Marmalade]

My prediction is that they will be the Prince and Princess of Cambridge. My reason for this guess is that the last official visit the Queen made before the wedding was to Cambridge.

They would already be Prince and Princess...but any other title such as Cambridge would be prefaced with Duke and Duchess....Earl and Countess, etc.

 

[muriel]

I think that this could work but I believe that things would be neater for their children if William had a Dukedom /Earldom of his own. I personally believe that LPs will be issued and make their children HRH - just like the Queen's father did for her children. If this does happen , then it would be better if William is Duke/Earl of X and the children Prince/Princess of X, instead of all of them (William , Catherine and children), plus Harry, being "of Wales" (since their father would have no other designation to use) because well, I feel that there would be too many Waleses in the country

I really do think they can do without a royal Dukedom for William. Wills continues to be referred to as he currently is, and Catherine is styled as Princess Catherine of Wales (even though she is not made a royal princess in her own right). LPs can be issued for their children. I really do not think we need to worry too much about their being too many Wales'.

The only question is that if William is not given a Dukedom at his marriage, I presume Harry will not get one as well - and in effect, he will have to wait till his father is King to be given a Dukedom. You would then have a situation that Harry will go from being Prince Harry of Wales to having to drop the "of Wales" bit when Charles becomes KIng and William becomes Prince of Wales. Might it not just be neater to make him a duke at his wedding, and working backwards from that, making William a royal duke tomorrow as well?

 

[KittyAtlanta]

In that case, why did they use the Mountbatten-Windsor ???

To honor their father as well as their mother.

 

[Conorius]

This time tomorrow we will know.

I think it will be Their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of Clarence.....

Then again I will probably be wrong lol!

 

[Lady Ann]

I think either Cambridge or Clarence ... but I have to say I kind of like the sound of HRH Princess William too.. to be honest I just want to know already ...I don't think I will sleep tonight in fear I wont hear the alarm go off...at 3am

 

[KPWillie]

They would already be Prince and Princess...but any other title such as Cambridge would be prefaced with Duke and Duchess....Earl and Countess, etc.

Oh, I didn't know that, Lady Marmalade, thanks. I still think it will be Cambridge. though. Duke and Duchess of Cambridge is my revised guess.

 

[EmpressRouge]

And so it begins...lol

Dateline NBC aired a nice special last night about the royal wedding preparations. They actually interviewed some real royal experts/insiders like Lady Pamela Mountbatten, Lady Elizabeth Anson, and the Queen's chef Mark Flanagan. Unfortunately, "royal expert" Katie Nicholl was also on and described William being "not the heir but the heir apparent." I really don't know why she's on NBC and ABC.

 

[Sister Morphine]

LOL, William is the heir apparent. Maybe to people that don't want Charles to be King, but that's not in the real world that we all live in.

 

[branchg]

Ok, so looks like they're probably going to get a title then. Time to place your bets!

If accurate, then it is a foregone conclusion William is being created a Peer tomorrow morning. My final vote is Duke of Clarence or Earl of Cambridge.

 

[Royal_Eagle]

LOL, William is the heir apparent. Maybe to people that don't want Charles to be King, but that's not in the real world that we all live in.

Both Prince Charles and Prince William ARE Heir Apparents. A Heir Apparent is a heir who cannot be displaced by anyone else (by birth, etc). The only difference between them is Charles will go first, then William.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Both Prince Charles and Prince William ARE Heir Apparents. A Heir Apparent is a heir who cannot be displaced by anyone else (by birth, etc). The only difference between them is Charles will go first, then William.

William is not the heir apparent. The heir apparent is the next in line for the throne. William is not the next-in-line for the throne, his father is. CPss Victoria is the heir apparent of her father. CP Frederik is the heir apparent of his mother. Charles is the heir apparent of his mother.

In a hereditary system governed by some form of primogeniture, an heir apparent is easily identifiable as the person whose position as first in the line of succession is secure, regardless of future births. An heir presumptive, by contrast, can always be "bumped down" in the succession by the birth of somebody more closely related in a legal sense (according to that form of primogeniture) to the current title-holder.

So no, William is not the heir apparent of the throne of the Commonwealth Realms.

 

[EmpressRouge]

Well, William is the heir apparent to THE heir apparent, but what Katie Nichols said was just wrong. I mean, heir apparent is just a more specific kind of heir, so what she said was contradicting herself.

 

[Sister Morphine]

While I agree that William is the heir of the heir apparent, he is not officially the heir apparent. He won't be until his father is king, because he would then be next-in-line for the throne.

 

[Royal_Eagle]

While I agree that William is the heir of the heir apparent, he is not officially the heir apparent. He won't be until his father is king, because he would then be next-in-line for the throne.

Very fair point--it looks like the definition you gave earlier is a bit more specific than what I had in mind. What I meant by "Heir Apparent" is a heir who will eventually ascend, even if he's not the first in the line of succession, because they can't be displaced.

In any case, I don't think "Heir Apparent" is an official term within the BRF anyway. My point really was that there are 2 people who will ascend the throne because they *can't* be displaced; all other people in the line of succession can be displaced further down the line by birth of other people.

And I do agree, Kate Nichols really got it wrong.

 

[Frideswide]

Clarence would be my choice. I believe the last Duchess of Clarence was Princess (later Queen) Adelaide, and her husband went on to be King William IV, so it would be fitting.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Queen Mary would have been Duchess of Clarence and Avondale, had her fiance Prince Albert Victor not died during their engagement. However Queen Victoria still thought she was a suitable match for the next king, which then became his brother George.

 

[Frideswide]

I see that William IV was previously Duke of Clarence and St Andrews, which makes a little link even though the St Andrews title itself is no longer available.

 

[Thena]

Whatever the Queen decides, William has to get some sort of title. He's got nearly 20 years to wait before he can become Duke of Cornwall.

 

[Renata4711]

When exactly will the Queen announce the titles ?

 

[CrownPrincess5]

If she decides to give them a title it'll be announced on the wedding day....after the ceremony according to the palace.

 

[Sister Morphine]

If she decides to give them a title it'll be announced on the wedding day....after the ceremony according to the palace.

Actually it'll be before the ceremony.

The following schedule of royal wedding events is in Eastern Standard Time.

3:00 a.m. - 4:00 a.m. -- The morning of April 29 will start with an announcement from the Queen's office stating the titles that Prince William and Kate Middleton will take.

That would be about 8 or 9 am in London, which is about 2-3 hours before the ceremony starts. We knew about Andrew and Edward's titles before their respective weddings, so if William is given a dukedom, it will follow suit and we'll know before it all kicks off.

 

[CrownPrincess5]

Actually it'll be before the ceremony.

That would be about 8 or 9 am in London, which is about 2-3 hours before the ceremony starts. We knew about Andrew and Edward's titles before their respective weddings, so if William is given a dukedom, it will follow suit and we'll know before it all kicks off.

I thought the palace said it will be announced after the ceremony?

 

[wbenson]

I don't believe the palace has made an announcement either way at this point.

ETA: Apparently according to this article, a palace spokesperson did say it would be after the wedding.

 

[branchg]

If William is created a Peer, it will be announced in the morning before he proceeds to the Abbey. The tradition has been to create the royal groom a Peer before the ceremony begins so his bride legally marries a Peer of the Realm and becomes a Duchess or Countess, of course with royal rank automatically as HRH Princess of the UK.

If no announcement is made before the ceremony, that very likely means William has chosen to remain styled as "HRH Prince William of Wales" and therefore, his wife would take her style automatically as "HRH Princess William of Wales". Technically, no announcement would be necessary as the assumption of this style is a given with marriage to a Prince of the UK.

However, if The Queen had agreed to allow it, I can see an announcement coming after the ceremony from the Palace stating that while Catherine was automatically "HRH Princess William of Wales", she would be permitted the use of "HRH Princess Catherine" as a courtesy.