Prince William and Catherine Middleton Possible Titles

[Sister Morphine]

So hold on now I'm confused does William automatically get a title at marriage or is there a chance he will remain HRH Prince William of Wales?

No, he won't automatically get a title upon his marriage. Any titles one receives that are not birthright (i.e., inherited) are given at the Queen's discretion.

 

[branchg]

I would imagine this would be something she will discuss with William to get his thoughts and feelings on the subject. Somehow, I don't see that an Earldom will be considered by the Queen. He is after all second in line to the throne, and no one else in the Royal family can unsurp that position. Has any other Royal that is second in line to the throne ever taken an earldom title instead of a Dukedom?

Traditionally, male-line grandsons and sons were created Dukes, either at age 18, or when they married. But times have changed.

William is still completing his military service and the idea is to avoid the mistakes that were made with Diana in rushing her into royal and public life. William is also very conscious of not wanting to upstage his father and would like to start a family while the spotlight is less intense.

Given all this, it seems logical to me that William would desire a less grand title for now, given that he will have all the titles and pressure that will come as the heir to the throne in due course. Creating him an Earl gives Catherine a title of her own, while still allowing him a measure of being more down-to-earth than his father can be as Prince of Wales.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Lady Ann]

I think that if they are not going to give him a title of a duke when he marries they should just leave him HRH Prince William of Wales and let Kate be, HRH Princess William of Wales till they are ready to take on full time royal duties. If he is going to be in the military and she is going to be out of the spot light better to leave well enough alone. IMO

 

[berengere]

I wonder whether all of this discussion about succession and skipping Prince Charles will cause the queen to NOT confer a title and leave that for Prince Charles to do at a later date.

That would make a statement IMO.

 

[Thena]

^That may be a statement the Queen is reluctant to make.

I fully expect the Queen to stick with tradition. Edward did not take a dukedom because he wanted to distance his future children from the hassles of royal life, but his chance of inheriting the crown was remote. William is in a very different situation.

 

[Zonk]

The Queen will never publicly rebuke her son.

She believes in the tradition of the monarchy and loves her son.

 

[berengere]

Of course the Queen would never rebuke her son.

That is why I was wondering if she might not grant a title. Who knows, PW may not want one at this time.

....bated breath

 

[avrilo]

I don't see why they would give William a dukedom or earldom upon his marriage, when he, in a few years time will inherit his father's titles and he will become for the rest of Charles' life The Prince of Wales. Also, for what I understand, they will be living a very low profile life in the early years of their marriage, while he finishes up his duties to the military. So as I see it there is no real need for the title at this point.

I find kinda hilarious that he we're wracking our brains to figure out which title will Kate get and the press will go on calling her "Princess Kate".

 

[Sister Morphine]

I don't see why they would give William a dukedom or earldom upon his marriage, when he, in a few years time will inherit his father's titles and he will become for the rest of Charles' life The Prince of Wales. Also, for what I understand, they will be living a very low profile life in the early years of their marriage, while he finishes up his duties to the military. So as I see it there is no real need for the title at this point.

I find kinda hilarious that he we're wracking our brains to figure out which title will Kate get and the press will go on calling her "Princess Kate".

William won't be inheriting his father's titles for more than just a "few years". The Queen is 84 and in quite good health. There's no reason why she won't reign for another 10 or 16 years. Her mother lived to be over 100.

 

[texankitcat]

William won't be inheriting his father's titles for more than just a "few years". The Queen is 84 and in quite good health. There's no reason why she won't reign for another 10 or 16 years. Her mother lived to be over 100.

True, but I wish she would slow down. Prince Phillip is looking pretty frail, and they both deserve to enjoy their remaining years without keeping up the pace they have for so many years.

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

I don't see why they would give William a dukedom or earldom upon his marriage, when he, in a few years time will inherit his father's titles and he will become for the rest of Charles' life The Prince of Wales. Also, for what I understand, they will be living a very low profile life in the early years of their marriage, while he finishes up his duties to the military. So as I see it there is no real need for the title at this point.

Well, it has been a tradition in the House of Windsor to grant peerages upon marriage or upon reaching majority, and there is no real reason to break that precedent now.

And there is also the consideration of the Queen's longevity. Since she could well live to be 100 years old, and that would put Prince William into his 40's before he would be created Prince of Wales..

Giving him a ducal title will ensure that his eldest son is HRH of something - for example, "HRH Prince ___ of Cambridge". It will also reinforce the rank of William's other children, who will all be Lord/Lady by courtesy.. at least until William becomes heir apparent.

And in the event that Prince Charles pre-deceases the Queen, William will already have a ducal title.. because if such a thing should happen, he will not inherit any of Charles' titles. He could only be created Prince of Wales at that point.

 

[Mermaid1962]

Wouldn't he automatically receive Charles's other titles, such as Duke of Cornwall, etc.?

And in the event that Prince Charles pre-deceases the Queen, William will already have a ducal title.. because if such a thing should happen, he will not inherit any of Charles' titles. He could only be created Prince of Wales at that point.

 

[prsgoddess]

Wouldn't he automatically receive Charles's other titles, such as Duke of Cornwall, etc.?

No, Duke of Cornwall, etc is only for the eldest son of the sovereign.

If you look at the case of George III, same issue. His father, Frederick, was the oldest son of George II, and died before him. George III was created Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, but could not be Duke of Cornwall, etc.

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

No, Duke of Cornwall, etc is only for the eldest son of the sovereign.

If you look at the case of George III, same issue. His father, Frederick, was the oldest son of George II, and died before him. George III was created Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, but could not be Duke of Cornwall, etc.

What prsgoddess said.

If Charles had been given a normal ducal title, say Duke of Clarence for example.. then if he died before the Queen, William would become the next Duke of Clarence.

But all of Charles' titles are strictly reserved for the eldest son and heir apparent of the Sovereign. And he has to be both the eldest son and heir.

Neither the Dukedom of Cornwall, the Dukedom of Rothesay or any of their subsidiary titles may be inherited. If the eldest son and heir apparent dies, the titles revert to the crown until such time as there is another eldest son and heir apparent to a reigning sovereign.

If Prince Charles dies before becoming king, then there will not be another Duke of Cornwall or Rothesay until William succeeds to the throne and has a son and heir of his own - If, however, Charles does outlive his mother and becomes king, then William as eldest son and heir apparent, will become Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay, et. al.

 

[Osipi]

Also, for what I understand, they will be living a very low profile life in the early years of their marriage, while he finishes up his duties to the military. So as I see it there is no real need for the title at this point.

Just an odd question and it may relate to what title the Queen does bestow on William at his marriage. What are the possibilities that with things going as they are now, that William will re-up in SAR after the initial tour of duty is done with? Until his father is King, perhaps he will decide to stay on as a search and rescue pilot for another stint and do occasional royal duties much as he is now? Just a thought.

 

[texankitcat]

What prsgoddess said.

If Charles had been given a normal ducal title, say Duke of Clarence for example.. then if he died before the Queen, William would become the next Duke of Clarence.

But all of Charles' titles are strictly reserved for the eldest son and heir apparent of the Sovereign. And he has to be both the eldest son and heir.

Neither the Dukedom of Cornwall, the Dukedom of Rothesay or any of their subsidiary titles may be inherited. If the eldest son and heir apparent dies, the titles revert to the crown until such time as there is another eldest son and heir apparent to a reigning sovereign.

If Prince Charles dies before becoming king, then there will not be another Duke of Cornwall or Rothesay until William succeeds to the throne and has a son and heir of his own - If, however, Charles does outlive his mother and becomes king, then William as eldest son and heir apparent, will become Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay, et. al.

I had no idea how that is how works. Great information! Thank you!

 

[branchg]

Wouldn't he automatically receive Charles's other titles, such as Duke of Cornwall, etc.?

No, however, he would become The Duke of Edinburgh if Charles predeceased him before becoming King. William would inherit his grandfather's peerages.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Just an odd question and it may relate to what title the Queen does bestow on William at his marriage. What are the possibilities that with things going as they are now, that William will re-up in SAR after the initial tour of duty is done with? Until his father is King, perhaps he will decide to stay on as a search and rescue pilot for another stint and do occasional royal duties much as he is now? Just a thought.

I wouldn't be at all surprised. William to me doesn't really want to take on royal duties and he knows that Harry won't be a full time royal until his mid-late 40s as Harry has a military career.

If the Queen is in good health then William could stay in the army for anothe 10 - 15 years and then emerge as a father of teenagers when his father ascends the throne, and he has to take up the mantle of heir.

If the Queen's health starts to go downhill though he might have to leave the army at the end of his current term.

 

[branchg]

It will also reinforce the rank of William's other children, who will all be Lord/Lady by courtesy.. at least until William becomes heir apparent.

William's eldest son would automatically be HRH Prince of the UK under the 1917 Letters Patent if born during The Queen's reign. His other children would be Lord/Lady Windsor as great-grandchildren of The Sovereign.

 

[branchg]

I wouldn't be at all surprised. William to me doesn't really want to take on royal duties and he knows that Harry won't be a full time royal until his mid-late 40s as Harry has a military career.

If the Queen is in good health then William could stay in the army for anothe 10 - 15 years and then emerge as a father of teenagers when his father ascends the throne, and he has to take up the mantle of heir.

If the Queen's health starts to go downhill though he might have to leave the army at the end of his current term.

Exactly. Which is why I think he would prefer not be granted a Dukedom at this time. He wants to keep as much of his current normalcy as he can until he becomes the heir to the throne. It also gives Catherine more time to adjust to the spotlight and royal life.

However, he may not want his wife to be stuck with "HRH Princess William of Wales" as her style. For that reason alone, he may accept an Earldom so Catherine will have a more acceptable title as Countess of X.

 

[Osipi]

I wouldn't be at all surprised. William to me doesn't really want to take on royal duties and he knows that Harry won't be a full time royal until his mid-late 40s as Harry has a military career.

If the Queen is in good health then William could stay in the army for anothe 10 - 15 years and then emerge as a father of teenagers when his father ascends the throne, and he has to take up the mantle of heir.

If the Queen's health starts to go downhill though he might have to leave the army at the end of his current term.

To be honest, I'd not be surprised either one bit. Also, I'd not be surprised one bit if Granny advised him to do such if he's really happy with the work he's doing right now. Take the time and do what you enjoy doing, raise a family and your time for duties full time will come later on.
Even should the Queen's health or the DoE's for that matter, I think her sons and daughter would have things pretty much covered for William to continue in SAR. What is nice is that with Wills and Kate being married, the royal appearances and duties he does do, he'll be able to have Kate by his side doing so. With on station duties, the way they are scheduled in advance, and how far ahead the court circular is planned, I think it would be safe to assume that the PAs of William could work with SAR as far as royal duties not conflicting with his on station shifts.

I do think, however, that the Queen will confer a dukedom on William at the time of marriage. She may secretly advise the two of them to go for the title Mummy and Daddy first though.

 

[Osipi]

I had to expect it. Everyone that ever held a paper and pen or a microphone or has thought him/herself as a reporter is jumping on the Will and Kate bandwagon. And of course, they don't have a clue what they're talking about. Here is another shining example of what folks are reading and believing is history. Funny... I never ever realized that the David and Wallis had children!

Prince William Engagement: What Royal Title Will Kate Middleton Get? - Celebrity Circuit - CBS News

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

I had to expect it. Everyone that ever held a paper and pen or a microphone or has thought him/herself as a reporter is jumping on the Will and Kate bandwagon. And of course, they don't have a clue what they're talking about. Here is another shining example of what folks are reading and believing is history. Funny... I never ever realized that the David and Wallis had children!

Prince William Engagement: What Royal Title Will Kate Middleton Get? - Celebrity Circuit - CBS News

That just looks like one extra stroke of the keyboard, to be honest. It was meant to read Edward VII, of course.

 

[Osipi]

That just looks like one extra stroke of the keyboard, to be honest. It was meant to read Edward VII, of course.

I knew that.. hehe.. the rest of the report was right on the money. But I do think that until the wedding happens, we're going to see a LOT of things that are just not quite right.

This reminds me so much of when I ate up everything about the upcoming marriage of Charles and Diana and woke up at 4 am to watch live coverage.. forgot to pack the kids lunches and gave them too much and my hubby then thinking I was totally ready to be committed.

Another title I think will be conferred on William on his wedding day is the bestest one yet. Husband. Think that's his main one he's concerned about right about now too.

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

Exactly. Which is why I think he would prefer not be granted a Dukedom at this time. He wants to keep as much of his current normalcy as he can until he becomes the heir to the throne. It also gives Catherine more time to adjust to the spotlight and royal life.

However, he may not want his wife to be stuck with "HRH Princess William of Wales" as her style. For that reason alone, he may accept an Earldom so Catherine will have a more acceptable title as Countess of X.

Being granted a ducal title is not going to interfere with his lifestyle any more than being Prince William of Wales.. it is, after all, just a title. It's not like he will become responsible for tenants and home farms and manors..

His life will continue just as it has before, with the exception of having a wife and maybe children.. I don't believe there will be any impediment to the career he has chosen, or the charities he supports, as long as the Queen continues as monarch.

And as for Catherine.. well, she's had 8 years to adjust to the life of a royal, at least as far as the media is concerned. Its been said that she intends to be a fully working member of the family after she marries William.

Its also been said that William has promised her parents that he will prosecute any members of the paparazzi that try to harass her the way they did his mother. He certainly has no love for those people, and he's sued them before..

They are both intelligent people.. so I think they will adjust just fine.

 

[ghost_night554]

To be honest, I'd not be surprised either one bit. Also, I'd not be surprised one bit if Granny advised him to do such if he's really happy with the work he's doing right now. Take the time and do what you enjoy doing, raise a family and your time for duties full time will come later on.
Even should the Queen's health or the DoE's for that matter, I think her sons and daughter would have things pretty much covered for William to continue in SAR. What is nice is that with Wills and Kate being married, the royal appearances and duties he does do, he'll be able to have Kate by his side doing so. With on station duties, the way they are scheduled in advance, and how far ahead the court circular is planned, I think it would be safe to assume that the PAs of William could work with SAR as far as royal duties not conflicting with his on station shifts.

I do think, however, that the Queen will confer a dukedom on William at the time of marriage. She may secretly advise the two of them to go for the title Mummy and Daddy first though.

I think both William and Kate understand that this announcement signals that people will be expecting to see them on their royal duties and not just hide out at the RAF. William already does alot(alright not as much as POW or The Queen, but still alot more than a few years ago!) and he already expressed earlier this year that he does wish to go further into his charity & public work once he finishes his RAF stint so I highly doubt he`ll stay in there for 10-15 years I can actually see him maybe beginning to raise the amount royal public engagements he does per year now that he`s getting married JMO

No. He is "HRH Prince William" at birth by right of the Letters Patent of 1917 as a male-line grandson of The Sovereign. If The Queen creates him a Peer, for example, Duke of Cambridge, on his wedding day, then he will become HRH Prince William, Duke of Cambridge, and styled as "HRH The Duke of Cambridge".

Catherine takes her style, title and rank from her husband, becoming "HRH The Duchess of Cambridge", in this example after marriage, with the rank of a Princess (HRH Princess William).

Thank you for that clarification!

 

[Osipi]

I think both William and Kate understand that this announcement signals that people will be expecting to see them on their royal duties and not just hide out at the RAF. William already does alot(alright not as much as POW or The Queen, but still alot more than a few years ago!) and he already expressed earlier this year that he does wish to go further into his charity & public work once he finishes his RAF stint so I highly doubt he`ll stay in there for 10-15 years I can actually see him maybe beginning to raise the amount royal public engagements he does per year now that he`s getting married JMO

I personally think he just might keep on with SAR for a little while. When they're in Wales, they have a certain degree of aloneness and privacy but they both know they're expected to do royal duties also. At least this way, being married, when there ARE royal duties to do, they can do it together. I not only expect to see them at Ascot and Trooping the Colors, but I can also see the two of them very much at home at Centrepoint. We do realize that the place where he did propose was not exactly a 5 star restaurant and hotel lodging right? They were at a very rustic cabin. No heat except for a fireplace, no electricity, a burner under a tank of water for a hot bath. I really don't see that it'll be how many duties and ribbon cuttings he does, but the ones that he does do.. will be of quality and mean something. Kate is just the type that would sleep out on the streets of London with Wills if it meant drawing attention to Centrepoint. She'll be just as much as an asset wherever Wills goes. Then in time, she'll take on her own charities and interests such as Starlight which I believe she already is fond of.

It does boil down to the fact that I think at first they will have till 2013 to think about where they go from there. They may go into being full time royals, he may re-up for another stint in SAR, or they could permanently move to that rustic cabin in Kenya... anything is possible.

 

[ghost_night554]

Definitely agree what you said about William and Kate, they will definitely be a great team and I think she'll be a fine assest. I honestly think they may do a bit more then just Trooping and Ascot. I can see William pulling off one or two of those random engagements that has nothing to do with any of his charities or as I call it the "ribbon cutting" engagements. When William does do appearance now for the most part he focuses on his charities the appearances aren't random, but I do hope we will see them a little bit I can't see how 2 or 3 engagements will help Kate adjust she'll need a little more then that but they cannot do it like they did with Diana one after the other(back to back tours of the commonwealth) that will just end in disaster. I think for the most part IMO I think the first year or they'll be easy on them but if they don't begin to up the appearances after that I just cannot see it going well with the public don't ask me why but I feel that for royals once you are married I feel as the public demands way more of you then when you were single.

 

[prsgoddess]

Another question, in Britain can I female carry the title- i.e. after Prince Andrew dies could the Queen (or King) make Bea Duchess of York?

It is possible; Queen Victoria did this for one of her granddaughters, Princess Louise of Wales (eldest daughter of Edward VII):

​

Queen Victoria's Letters Patent of 29 June 1889 contained the standard remainder "heirs male of his body." Letters Patent of 24 April 1900 granted a second Dukedom of Fife with a special remainder that allowed the title to pass to the daughters of the first Duke, in default of a son, and then to the male heirs of those daughters.​

But I don't think that it will happen.

 

[Thena]

Also, Earl Mountbatten of Burma's title was created with a special remainder that allowed his daughter Patricia to inherit the title since he had no sons.

However, no such remainder was created for the Duke of York title, and I don't believe it will happen for Beatrice.