Prince William and Catherine Middleton Possible Titles

[HM Queen Catherine]

This article is not correct it has it all wrong!

Agreed. I totally wrote a scathing comment on it after reading it. What utter nonsense - must have been written by an American.

And I'm American.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Her official title will NEVER be HRH Princess Catherine of Wales. Catherine is not a princess in her own right. All these dumb writers have to do is read Wikipedia to figure that out.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Well.. if Beatrice became Queen she wouldn't need her father's title.. she would be the Duke of Lancaster

My point though it that she can't become Duchess of York in her own right because of her gender and that is simple sexism and needs to be changed.

 

[Lumutqueen]

hello! why would William take a dukedom when it is a stepdown when for 26 years he's been a prince! Kate deserves to be Princess Catherine of Wales - once the queen dies they would be retitled as Prince/Princess of Wales its pointless!

He doesn't loose his HRH just because he is GIVEN a dukedom. She doesn't deserve to be Princess Catharine, because she isn't a princess in her own right.
It is not a given, that William will become to the Prince of Wales.

 

[Zonk]

Please note that all OFF topic posts about the Prince Charles interview with Brian Williams has been moved to http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...-current-events-23-august-2010-a-28476-2.html .

Zonk
British Forums Moderator

 

[Sister Morphine]

He doesn't loose his HRH just because he is GIVEN a dukedom. She doesn't deserve to be Princess Catharine, because she isn't a princess in her own right.
It is not a given, that William will become to the Prince of Wales.

Basically this. The only women in the BRF with the right to use "princess" before their own given name are Anne, Beatrice, Eugenie and Louise (although her parents have her styled as the daughter of an earl). That's it. Those are the only princesses of the blood royal that are alive, to my knowledge.

She will be a princess yes, but through marriage. Which means her titles come from her husband. She'll be Princess William or Wales or if William is granted a dukedom The Duchess of Wherever. When Charles is King, she'll be The Duchess of Cornwall until such a time that Charles creates William The Prince of Wales, at which time she'll be The Princess of Wales. Then she'll be Queen Catherine and that will be the only time when her name will immediately follow her title.

Also, isn't a royal dukedom different than say a garden variety dukedom? I would imagine there are many dukes in England at the moment, but not all of them are royal. A royal dukedom (like York, Edinburgh) is not a step down from being a prince, it's a compliment to it.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Sister Morphine, thanks for explaining but I already knew about the title Princess.
I guess there is a difference.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Sister Morphine, thanks for explaining but I already knew about the title Princess.
I guess there is a difference.

I wasn't explaining that to you, I was agreeing with you. I just threw the rest in for anyone else who might read it. Seeing as you're British, I had a feeling you knew that pretty well yourself already.

 

[Princess Robijn]

Basically this. The only women in the BRF with the right to use "princess" before their own given name are Anne, Beatrice, Eugenie and Louise (although her parents have her styled as the daughter of an earl). That's it. Those are the only princesses of the blood royal that are alive, to my knowledge.

Princess Alexandra of Kent also belongs in that list.

 

[Sunnystar]

Basically this. The only women in the BRF with the right to use "princess" before their own given name are Anne, Beatrice, Eugenie and Louise (although her parents have her styled as the daughter of an earl). That's it. Those are the only princesses of the blood royal that are alive, to my knowledge.

Princess Alexandra is still alive and she has the right as the granddaughter of a monarch.

 

[grevinnan]

I do not believe Catherine will automatically be Duchess of Cornwall. Camilla chose to be known by that title in lieu of Princess of Wales upon her marriage to Charles. She could have picked any Duchess title of all the Duke titles Charles has. Consequently I do not believe the duchess of Cornwall automatically transfers to Catherine unless the Duke title has passed to Williams and that is the particular title they choose for her.

 

[Sister Morphine]

I believe Catherine will not automatically be Duchess of Corwall. Camilla chose that title in lieu of Princess of Wales upon her marriage to Charles. She could have picked any Duchess title of all the Duke titles Charles has. Consequently I do not believe the duchess of Cornwall automatically transfers to Catherine.

Camilla won't be The Duchess of Cornwall when Charles ascends the throne, she'll be the Queen. So the title "The Duchess of Cornwall" would pass on to the wife of the new Duke of Cornwall, which in this case would be William.

When Charles becomes King, William automatically becomes the Duke of Cornwall and the Duke of Rothesay.

 

[Esmerelda]

I do not believe Catherine will automatically be Duchess of Cornwall. Camilla chose to be known by that title in lieu of Princess of Wales upon her marriage to Charles. She could have picked any Duchess title of all the Duke titles Charles has. Consequently I do not believe the duchess of Cornwall automatically transfers to Catherine unless the Duke title has passed to Williams and that is the particular title they choose for her.

Maybe the Duchess of Rothsay instead?

 

[Lumutqueen]

Maybe the Duchess of Rothsay instead?

Catherine will become The Duchess of Cornwall, and The Duchess of Rothesay when her father-in-law becomes King.

 

[reginalix]

It wil be probably like under the reign of Victoria.
We had a Queen , a prince of Wales and a son.
So maybe Queen Elisabeth will give to HRH Prince William of Wales and HRH Catherine of Wales the title of Dukes of Clarence and Avondale, several months after the wedding..

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

Also, isn't a royal dukedom different than say a garden variety dukedom? I would imagine there are many dukes in England at the moment, but not all of them are royal. A royal dukedom (like York, Edinburgh) is not a step down from being a prince, it's a compliment to it.

The only thing that makes a dukedom Royal is the fact that it's held by a member of the royal family who is entitled to HRH.

There are only 8 royal ducal titles at the present time -

the Duke of Lancaster, the Duke of Normandy (both held by the Queen)
the Duke of Cornwall, the Duke of Rothesay (both held by Prince Charles)
the Duke of Edinburgh (held by Prince Philip)
the Duke of York (held by Prince Andrew)
the Duke of Gloucester (held by Prince Richard)
and the Duke of Kent (held by Prince Edward)

and there will be a 9th if Prince William is given one when he marries Catherine Middleton.

Lancaster and Normandy are both tied strictly to the Crown and can only be held by the reigning sovereign. Cornwall and Rothesay are both strictly tied to the heir apparent to the throne, as is the earldom of Chester.

There are currently 24 peers with ducal titles in the UK -

10 dukes in the peerage of England
6 dukes in the peerage of Scotland
2 dukes in the peerage of Great Britain
2 dukes in the peerage of Ireland
4 dukes in the peerage of the United Kingdom

And in medieval times, a dukedom for a prince was considered a step UP, actually. Back then, titles came with landed estates that increased the wealth of the holder and provided income for his heirs.

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

It wil be probably like under the reign of Victoria.
We had a Queen , a prince of Wales and a son.
So maybe Queen Elisabeth will give to HRH Prince William of Wales and HRH Catherine of Wales the title of Dukes of Clarence and Avondale, several months after the wedding..

Traditionally, the House of Windsor has created titles for members of the royal family upon their marriage. There is no reason to believe that this will not be the case when William and Catherine marry.

And the only reason Victoria's children were given titles with dual territories is because she wanted to emphasize the unity between Scotland and England.. which at that time had newly formed as the United Kingdom.

After her children, there have been no other titles given with more than one designation.. and I seriously doubt there will ever be again.

 

[Sister Morphine]

It wil be probably like under the reign of Victoria.
We had a Queen , a prince of Wales and a son.
So maybe Queen Elisabeth will give to HRH Prince William of Wales and HRH Catherine of Wales the title of Dukes of Clarence and Avondale, several months after the wedding..

Her name will not be HRH Princess Catherine of Wales. She is not, nor will she be, a princess in her own right. She will be HRH Princess William of Wales or HRH The Duchess of ______ if the Queen grants William a dukedom when he gets married. She will always been HRH The _________ of ___________ until she's queen, when she will be Queen Catherine. That's the only time her name will appear in her title.


I feel like everyone has been doing nothing but repeating themselves on this for days.

 

[Warren]

Correct in that there have been no dual-title dukedoms created since the reign of Queen Victoria, but William may yet become a dual-duke.
If as say Duke of Cambridge his father succeeds to the throne, William will become (formally at least, if not in practice) 'Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge' just as his great-great-grandfather George V was previously titled 'Duke of Cornwall and York'.

 

[HM Queen Catherine]

Correct in that there have been no dual-title dukedoms created since the reign of Queen Victoria, but William may yet become a dual-duke.
If as say Duke of Cambridge his father succeeds to the throne, William will become (formally at least, if not in practice) 'Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge' just as his great-great-grandfather George V was previously titled 'Duke of Cornwall and York'.

But if William becomes the Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge (as well as the Duke of Rothesay), those will be separate creations.. which is what I meant by my previous explanation. The dual designations of Victoria's sons were single creations.

Of course, there is absolutely nothing to prevent a single individual from holding hold separate ducal titles.. such as the Duke of Hamilton and Brandon, or the Duke of Richmond and Gordon (who also holds the title Duke of Lennox).

But the truth is, if Prince William is titled as Duke of Cornwall, it will probably be just briefly. I'm sure when Charles succeeds he will have William created Prince of Wales at the earliest possible date.

 

[Sister Morphine]

But the truth is, if Prince William is titled as Duke of Cornwall, it will probably be just briefly. I'm sure when Charles succeeds he will have William created Prince of Wales at the earliest possible date.

That's not necessarily so. The Queen didn't create Charles the Prince of Wales until 1969, after she'd been queen for 17 years.

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

That's not necessarily so. The Queen didn't create Charles the Prince of Wales until 1969, after she'd been queen for 17 years.

Actually, according to Wiki she created him PoW in 26 July 1958, when he was 10 years old.
List of titles and honours of Charles, Prince of Wales - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Calenei]

He was invested as Prince of Wales by The Queen on 1st July 1969 in a colourful ceremony at Caernarfon Castle. Before the investiture The Prince had spent a term at the University College of Wales at Aberystwyth, learning to speak Welsh.

from The Prince of Wales - Biography

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

Well, then Wikipedia got it wrong, sorry lol

 

[Calenei]

Well, then Wikipedia got it wrong, sorry lol

Oh now I feel bad... I was in no way trying to sound like I was correcting you in anyway. I was just curious so I looked on his website.

 

[wanderingnana]

Actually, Wikipedia is right. Charles was created Prince of Wales when he was ten, but invested as Prince of Wales in 1969

 

[windsorgirl]

Actually, Wikipedia is right. Charles was created Prince of Wales when he was ten, but invested as Prince of Wales in 1969

Exactly, and the Prince of Wales' website says the same thing.

 

[Stefan]

But the truth is, if Prince William is titled as Duke of Cornwall, it will probably be just briefly. I'm sure when Charles succeeds he will have William created Prince of Wales at the earliest possible date.

Could also be that he waitrs a little bit klike Edward VII. did before creating his sons Prince of Wales. As Charles will have the titel for such a long time it is very much associated with him.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Charles was created Prince of Wales in 1958. It was annouced at the end of the Commonwealth and Empire Games in Cardiff that year and went along the lines of 'I am creating my son Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester. When he is older I will invest him with that title in Wales'. He wasn't there at the time but was at school and was in the Headmaster's study, with some friends, when it was announced and has sometimes said he was rather embarassed about the way it was done - as any 10 year old would be but I can't remember which book/s I have where he is reported as having said that.

When he came to school in Australia in 1965 he was referred to as the Prince of Wales on a number of occasions (he arrival was one of the first stories I ever saw on TV as we had only just got TV reception in my country town). It is one of my first actual memories and was the start of my royal collection of newspapers. I still have the papers from that time which also refer to him as Prince of Wales.

Charles became Duke of Cornwall etc in the early hours of 6th February 1952 as soon as his mother became The Queen. He will lose those titles the instant his mother dies and Camilla will also cease to have the title Duchess of Cornwall etc at that same instant as William and Kate will immediately assume the Cornwall etc titles. Charles can take as long or short a time as he likes to create William Prince of Wales. Edward VII took nearly 9 months from January to November 1901 (creating George V PoW on his birthday on 9th November 1901). I can see Charles waiting a period of time but not necessarily as long and then again I can also see Charles not creating William PoW at all.

 

[Sister Morphine]

I have a question, maybe someone can help me with it. Do certain dukedoms take precedence over another, or is it purely alphabetical? I ask this because the future George V was first created Duke of York. Then when Queen Victoria died and his father became king, he immediately became the Duke of Cornwall as well. However he was styled (briefly) as the Duke of Cornwall and York, even though he was Duke of York first.

I noticed as well in Warren's response that should the Queen create William the Duke of Cambridge when he gets married, when Charles becomes King he will be The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge. Now in that instance it is not alphabetical, but the Cornwall title still comes first.

Is there a reason for that or am I looking for a pattern where there is none?