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View Poll Results: What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?
Duke of Clarence 25 16.45%
Duke of Cambridge 68 44.74%
Duke of Sussex 5 3.29%
Duke of Windsor 8 5.26%
Duke of Kendall 2 1.32%
Earl of Something 8 5.26%
Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else. 10 6.58%
Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales 26 17.11%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1821  
Old 04-28-2011, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
I "insist" on using heir apparent to describe the next in line to the throne, because that's what the next in line to the throne is called. That's like asking why I insist on calling my mother my mother. William has no official designation in the way that his father does, and if he has a son while the Queen is still on throne, that child won't have an official designation either. When Charles is king, William will his heir apparent. When William is king, his eldest child (if primogeniture rules have changed) will be his heir apparent.

An heir is a person who inherits or has a right of inheritance in the property of another following the latter's death. An heir apparent is a person whose succession to a position appears certain. For example, my mother was my grandmother's heiress. When she died, my mother received what was left of her property and some money. Charles is his mother's heir apparent. That means his place in the line of succession to her position is certain and indefeasible. Charles cannot be displaced from his position by anyone, at any time. An heir CAN be displaced.
Using your definition of 'heir apparent' - William qualifies. His succession to a position (King) appears certain. He will succeed to the throne. It is certain. As long as he lives long enough, he will succeed to the throne.

However, once again, using your definition of 'heir', William is not heir because he will not inherit anything from the Queen when she dies.

Hence, using your definitions, Charles is the Heir, but Charles, William and William's oldest son are all heir apparents.
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  #1822  
Old 04-29-2011, 12:03 AM
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Charles is his mother's heir apparent. Period. Not William, not any children William has. You can have more than one person in line to inherit a position, but there can only be ONE at the head of the line. Charles is at the head of the line. Not William, not any children William has. The person at the head of the line is the heir apparent. Not anyone standing behind them.

CPss Victoria is her father's heiress apparent. CP Frederik is his mother's heir apparent. His son Christian is not heir apparent. CP Felipe is father's heir apparent. His daughter Leonor is not heiress apparent. CP Phillipe is his father's heir apparent. His daughter Elisabeth is not heiress apparent. CP Haakon is his father's heir apparent. His daughter Ingrid Alexandra is not heiress apparent. CP Willem-Alexander is his mother's heir apparent. His daughter Catharina-Amalia is not heiress apparent.

There can only be one at the head of the line. The head of the line is the heir/heiress apparent. Not their eldest children, not anyone else. That's how it works. That's how it's always worked, that's what these people have always been called.
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  #1823  
Old 04-29-2011, 12:07 AM
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Enough .
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  #1824  
Old 04-29-2011, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post

That's just the way the Order of Precedence in the UK works. There's the Order of Precedence for Ladies and the Order of Precedence for Gentlemen. What is interesting is that Viscount Severn outranks Peter Philips in the OofP for Gentlemen because his father is a prince, but Zara Philips outranks Lady Louise because her mother is a princess of the blood, rather than by marriage.

Interesting. Because Lady Louise Windsor is above even the The Princess Royal, let alone Zara Phillips, in the Line of Succession.

rawsilk
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  #1825  
Old 04-29-2011, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
Enough .
I will bite my tongue since this is a day of celebration when an heir apparent probably will get a new title in about 3 hours.

I wonder if in addition to giving William a new title, I wonder if Mr. Middleton will also be given a title.
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  #1826  
Old 04-29-2011, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by rawsilk View Post
Interesting. Because Lady Louise Windsor is above even the The Princess Royal, let alone Zara Phillips, in the Line of Succession.

rawsilk

That's because her father is the son of the sovereign, and sons are ahead of daughters in the line of succession.
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  #1827  
Old 04-29-2011, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Americanskipper View Post
I wonder if in addition to giving William a new title, I wonder if Mr. Middleton will also be given a title.
Why on earth would Mr. Middleton be given a title? Absolutely no reason whatsoever for that. Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Rhys-Jones weren't. Even Mark Phillips wasn't given one, by his and Anne's choice, of course.
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  #1828  
Old 04-29-2011, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Duchess Rennie View Post
Why on earth would Mr. Middleton be given a title? Absolutely no reason whatsoever for that. Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Rhys-Jones weren't. Even Mark Phillips wasn't given one, by his and Anne's choice, of course.
They were not going to be grandparents of a future King, as Mr. Middleton will be. I just think the annoucement about titles today may possibly (not likely but possibly) be regarding his title.

I still think the most likely scenario will be William being made an earl today.
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  #1829  
Old 04-29-2011, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post

That's because her father is the son of the sovereign, and sons are ahead of daughters in the line of succession.
Indeed. That is why I find it fascinating that while determining who will reign one set of criteria is used and when determining precedence in other areas (presumably as in who sits where at the table) another set of criteria is used!

rawsilk
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  #1830  
Old 04-29-2011, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Americanskipper View Post
They were not going to be grandparents of a future King, as Mr. Middleton will be.

That doesn't entitle him to a peerage.
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  #1831  
Old 04-29-2011, 01:54 AM
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Perhaps Mr. Middleton will not be given a title but he might get some sort of recognition as has been done in other countries before. I am not sure how these things go in Britain but in Denmark CP Mary's father received the Order of the Dannebrog and if I'm not totally wrong, so did Princess Marie's father.
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  #1832  
Old 04-29-2011, 01:55 AM
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Will Prince William and Kate Middleton be the next Duke and Duchess of Cambridge?

Read more: Will Prince William and Kate Middleton be the next Duke and Duchess of Cambridge? - mirror.co.uk
  #1833  
Old 04-29-2011, 01:57 AM
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I could see there being an outside chance of Mr. Middleton receiving some grade of the Royal Victorian Order, but I think even that is pretty unlikely, especially while Kate is still the wife(-to-be) of the heir apparent to the Duchy of Cornwall (ha!).
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  #1834  
Old 04-29-2011, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
I could see there being an outside chance of Mr. Middleton receiving some grade of the Royal Victorian Order, but I think even that is pretty unlikely, especially while Kate is still the wife(-to-be) of the heir apparent to the Duchy of Cornwall (ha!).
He can get something perhaps when Catherine is PoW or maybe Queen. He is, God permit, the grandfather of a future King/Queen.
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  #1835  
Old 04-29-2011, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catharina View Post
Perhaps Mr. Middleton will not be given a title but he might get some sort of recognition as has been done in other countries before. I am not sure how these things go in Britain but in Denmark CP Mary's father received the Order of the Dannebrog and if I'm not totally wrong, so did Princess Marie's father.
It is a tradition in Denmark that the bride's father receive Order of Danneborg previous to the wedding.
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  #1836  
Old 04-29-2011, 02:30 AM
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Ok, we better get back on track, or Zonk will Zonk us for getting off subject.

In 30 minutes or so the annoucement will be made regarding titles.
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  #1837  
Old 04-29-2011, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Americanskipper View Post
They were not going to be grandparents of a future King, as Mr. Middleton will be. I just think the annoucement about titles today may possibly (not likely but possibly) be regarding his title.
So far-fetched as to be impossible. Perhaps down the road, he could through his own merits and efforts earn himself a life peerage, but even that is pretty unlikely. True, there are other commoners in British history that became progenitors once or twice removed of monarchs, and some of them were indeed ennobled, but by no means all. And given today's climate concerning such matters, I think I can confidently say that we won't be seeing "Baron Middleton of Bucklebury", ever.
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  #1838  
Old 04-29-2011, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Americanskipper View Post
In 30 minutes or so the annoucement will be made regarding titles.
We hope.
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  #1839  
Old 04-29-2011, 02:35 AM
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We hope.
I thought the announcement would be made during the wedding ceremony
  #1840  
Old 04-29-2011, 02:36 AM
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Richard Palmer of the Daily Express has just now tweeted that "Buckingham Palace will announce a new title for Prince William and Kate Middleton at 8am,"
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