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View Poll Results: What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?
Duke of Clarence 25 16.45%
Duke of Cambridge 68 44.74%
Duke of Sussex 5 3.29%
Duke of Windsor 8 5.26%
Duke of Kendall 2 1.32%
Earl of Something 8 5.26%
Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else. 10 6.58%
Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales 26 17.11%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1541  
Old 04-22-2011, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
when Charles assumed them. He became Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay at the exact instant his mother became Queen because he met the two requirements of those two Dukedoms - that he is both the eldest living son of the monarch AND the heir apparent.
A bit off topic, (Sorry!), but why do people always say Duke of Cornwall has two requirements? Why is being the eldest living son of the monarch not sufficient for becoming Duke of Corwall? I can't think of any time when the eldest living son of the monarch would also not be the heir apparent. Except maybe if the eldest living son was Catholic or married to a Catholic.
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  #1542  
Old 04-22-2011, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Americanskipper View Post
A bit off topic, (Sorry!), but why do people always say Duke of Cornwall has two requirements? Why is being the eldest living son of the monarch not sufficient for becoming Duke of Corwall? I can't think of any time when the eldest living son of the monarch would also not be the heir apparent. Except maybe if the eldest living son was Catholic or married to a Catholic.
I am also confused about this. Wouldn't being the eldest living son of a monarch automatically make them the heir apparent under the current male premogenture? Therefore, there should only be one requirement. That they are the heir apparent BY being the eldest living son.
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  #1543  
Old 04-22-2011, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Americanskipper View Post
A bit off topic, (Sorry!), but why do people always say Duke of Cornwall has two requirements? Why is being the eldest living son of the monarch not sufficient for becoming Duke of Corwall? I can't think of any time when the eldest living son of the monarch would also not be the heir apparent. Except maybe if the eldest living son was Catholic or married to a Catholic.
You need to travel back to George III. He was Prince of Wales but never the Duke of Cornwall, because he was not George II's eldest son and heir, he was his grandson. In order to be Duke of Cornwall, you must be the sovereign's eldest son and heir. If Charles dies before the Queen, William cannot be the Duke of Cornwall, because he is not the Queen's eldest son, though he would be her heir.

Quote:
Under a charter of 1421, the dukedom passes to the Sovereign's eldest son and heir. If the Duke of Cornwall dies, his eldest son does not inherit the Dukedom. However, if the Duke of Cornwall should die without children, his next brother obtains the Dukedom. Underlying these rules is the principle that only a son of the Sovereign—never a grandson, even if he is the heir apparent—may be Duke of Cornwall; similarly, no female may ever be Duke of Cornwall, even if she is heiress presumptive or heiress apparent to the throne. It is possible for an individual to be Prince of Wales and heir apparent without being Duke of Cornwall. For example, King George II's heir-apparent, the future George III, was Prince of Wales, but not Duke of Cornwall (because he was the King's grandson, not the King's son). When the Sovereign has no legitimate son, the estates of the Duchy of Cornwall revert to the Crown until a legitimate son is born to the Sovereign or until the accession of a new Sovereign who has a son.
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  #1544  
Old 04-22-2011, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
You need to travel back to George III. He was Prince of Wales but never the Duke of Cornwall, because he was not George II's eldest son and heir, he was his grandson. In order to be Duke of Cornwall, you must be the sovereign's eldest son and heir. If Charles dies before the Queen, William cannot be the Duke of Cornwall, because he is not the Queen's eldest son, though he would be her heir.
I understand now. Thank you for the clarification!
  #1545  
Old 04-22-2011, 11:28 AM
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William wants her named Princess Catherine?

If William is offered a Duke title by the queen, he does not have to accept the title from what I have read. And if this is true, he may not accept a Duke title as he wants Kate to be a Princess styled with her name.
  #1546  
Old 04-22-2011, 12:09 PM
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For the last time, we don't know that William actually said he wants Catherine styled as a princess in her own right. There is zero proof outside of an errant comment in an article months ago, to back that up.

You are right that if the Queen offers William a dukedom he has the right of refusal, but does anyone actually think he would? Come on now.
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  #1547  
Old 04-22-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
If William is offered a Duke title by the queen, he does not have to accept the title from what I have read. And if this is true, hWe may not accept a Duke title as he wants Kate to be a Princess styled with her name.
The title issue is something that William, Prince Charles and The Queen would have discussed. The Queen may also have consulted with several experts as well, which is not unusual.

Either way, as is usually the case, William may indeed have given The Queen an indication of what he would prefer and she may have accepted or declined the request.

It's not a big secret and William undoubtedly knows already what Catherine will be called or whether he is going to become a Peer next week.
  #1548  
Old 04-22-2011, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
For the last time, we don't know that William actually said he wants Catherine styled as a princess in her own right. There is zero proof outside of an errant comment in an article months ago, to back that up.

You are right that if the Queen offers William a dukedom he has the right of refusal, but does anyone actually think he would? Come on now.
There are a couple articles or so out there that say that William requested this from his grandmother.

Here is one article:

Princess Catherine Queen Considers Unprecedented Title - All Global News on One Page

Granted artcles lie but we'll find out next Friday.
  #1549  
Old 04-22-2011, 01:45 PM
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That article is inaccurate. Even if she is granted the style of "Princess Catherine", she would not be a Princess of the UK in her own right, but a princess by marriage. If they divorce, she will lose this style and her rank of HRH per the 1996 Letters Patent.

Alice was granted the right to use the style of "Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester" but she was not a princess in her own right. She was "HRH The Princess Henry" as the wife of a son of The Sovereign. Since she remained a princess as a widow, The Queen allowed her aunt to assume the style in honour of her service to the Crown.
  #1550  
Old 04-22-2011, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
That article is inaccurate. Even if she is granted the style of "Princess Catherine", she would not be a Princess of the UK in her own right, but a princess by marriage. If they divorce, she will lose this style and her rank of HRH per the 1996 Letters Patent.

Alice was granted the right to use the style of "Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester" but she was not a princess in her own right. She was "HRH The Princess Henry" as the wife of a son of The Sovereign. Since she remained a princess as a widow, The Queen allowed her aunt to assume the style in honour of her service to the Crown.
As I said, we will find out Friday of next week for sure.
  #1551  
Old 04-22-2011, 02:27 PM
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Hi AmericanObserver7:

Don't take it personally if you are challenged. Believe me, it happened to me when I was a Newbie! Welcome to the forums...
  #1552  
Old 04-22-2011, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
There are a couple articles or so out there that say that William requested this from his grandmother.

Here is one article:

Princess Catherine Queen Considers Unprecedented Title - All Global News on One Page

Granted artcles lie but we'll find out next Friday.

This means what, exactly? Unless it's coming from a Palace source, or William is physically interviewed on TV and the words come out of his mouth, it's mere speculation not to be taken as fact. Hence why I said, "for the last time, there's no proof etc,."

Of course we'll find out next Friday, but continuing to say that doesn't change the fact that it's highly unlikely the Queen will do something for a granddaughter-in-law she didn't do for any closer relations, especially women who are nearer to the crown than Catherine will be.
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  #1553  
Old 04-22-2011, 02:34 PM
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So we would know the title only during the ceremony or before hand by a day or so?
I think Kate will get the title HRH Princess Catherine in her own right since she is marrying the future king, it wont make sense to me if she doesn't.
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  #1554  
Old 04-22-2011, 02:37 PM
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My guess is something would be said the day of the wedding, so that all the commentators covering it have the appropriate information. I would look for an announcement from the Palace either right before everything kicks off, or the night before.
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  #1555  
Old 04-22-2011, 03:51 PM
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[QUOTE=Sister Morphine;1236623]This means what, exactly? Unless it's coming from a Palace source, or William is physically interviewed on TV and the words come out of his mouth, it's mere speculation not to be taken as fact. Hence why I said, "for the last time, there's no proof etc,."

Of course we'll find out next Friday, but continuing to say that doesn't change the fact that it's highly unlikely the Queen will do something for a granddaughter-in-law she didn't do for any closer relations, especially women who are nearer to the crown than Catherine will be.[/QUOTE]

The only woman closer to the crown than Catherine will be after April 29th is Camilla. Therefore, I have to differ with you on this issue.
  #1556  
Old 04-22-2011, 04:02 PM
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[QUOTE=texankitcat;1236658]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
This means what, exactly? Unless it's coming from a Palace source, or William is physically interviewed on TV and the words come out of his mouth, it's mere speculation not to be taken as fact. Hence why I said, "for the last time, there's no proof etc,."

Of course we'll find out next Friday, but continuing to say that doesn't change the fact that it's highly unlikely the Queen will do something for a granddaughter-in-law she didn't do for any closer relations, especially women who are nearer to the crown than Catherine will be.[/QUOTE]

The only woman closer to the crown than Catherine will be after April 29th is Camilla. Therefore, I have to differ with you on this issue.
I believe what Sister Morphine meant is the Queen didn't make Diana, Princess of Wales a Princess in her own right (granted she became The Princess of Wales immediately upon marriage, so it's kind of moot point here), and she was closer to the throne than Catherine would be (for now anyway). Maybe it's different now, but I really doubt the Queen will let Catherine be styled Princess Catherine if she doesn't give a peerage to Prince William.

While Prince William is certainly modern and forward-looking, I doubt he's going to ask the Queen to break that tradition. Besides all we've got is vague claims from newspapers that the Prince asked the Queen not to make him a Duke/Earl and give Catherine her own Princess. It just doesn't smell like something he'd do.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but in my opinion it's just very unlikely.
  #1557  
Old 04-22-2011, 04:11 PM
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What is wonky to me about this article is that William doesn't want a dukedom or earldom or peerage of any kind, but he wants his wife to be styled as a blood-royal princess. Perhaps he's not as smart as I thought.
  #1558  
Old 04-22-2011, 04:20 PM
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Well, we have no idea what William really said or whether the speculation is even true. Personally, I find it difficult to believe William would not be well-aware that his grandmother is very much a traditionalist in these matters and such a request was not likely to be accepted.

But we'll see what happens.
  #1559  
Old 04-22-2011, 04:36 PM
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Perhaps, after having been known as Prince William his entire life, he doesn't wish to assume another name. A new title wouldn't give him any more position or income than he currently has. And he would wish for Katherine to retain her own name as well. Allowing Katherine to be styled as Princess Katherine need not upset an entire apple cart of tradition. They're young, they're modern, they are the hope and future of the monarchy.

On the other hand- heaven forbid, if William were to die, Katherine would be left without a real title- except for that of "Princess William."

I wouldn't be surprised for her to get the style now, and the actual title when she has borne the future King (or Queen).

The Prince William brand is a strong one- it's good for the monarchy for the heir presumptive to have a strong brand. If he is a greybeard when he ascends the throne, the Prince William title will be a familiar one, and an endearing reminder of his youthful glamour. Duke of Whatever, not so much.
  #1560  
Old 04-22-2011, 04:40 PM
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To me there is a vast difference between what P. William, at age 28, 'wants' and what QE2, @ age 85, 'knows.'
P. William believes he and Catherine will be married forever and as with most people his age he doesn't have the life experience to realize it might not work out in the very long run. And Catherine, as the product of a seemingly happy intact marriage has even less experience with divorce.
Her majesty, on the other hand, has witnessed all of her children's first marriages, except Edward and Sophie's, end in divorce (as did her sister's.) While I'm sure she truly hopes C & W will be together for life, her life experience has been that this isn't guarenteed. Because of this, I would be surprised if she deviated from past precedent by styling Catherine as Princess Catherine.
Although P. William may or may not want a dukedom, I suspect he'll accept one, if only so that when P. Harry marries he'll be given a dukedom as well.
Of course, I have no idea how the royal family views titles, they live in such rarified air, perhaps for them a title truly has no meaning.
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