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View Poll Results: What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?
Duke of Clarence 25 16.45%
Duke of Cambridge 68 44.74%
Duke of Sussex 5 3.29%
Duke of Windsor 8 5.26%
Duke of Kendall 2 1.32%
Earl of Something 8 5.26%
Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else. 10 6.58%
Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales 26 17.11%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1361  
Old 04-17-2011, 11:48 AM
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i think personally that to be given a Dukedom is no where near as good as being a Prince or Princess,so why not keep things as they are.?
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  #1362  
Old 04-17-2011, 11:50 AM
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I don't understand...what is this aversion to William receiving a dukedom? The main hypothesis being that he wants to keep as low a profile as possible and becoming a duke would hinder that. How so when he is patron of so many charities? Will it bring unwarranted attention to him as a Royal Navy commodore? Will his ducal title increase his profile as the Irish Guards' Royal Colonel? Would it raise his stature as a commandant in the RAF? Or how about change his status as heir to the throne? Will more press cover his trips abroad than in previous circumstances? I am very interested in hearing your replies...nevertheless every human being has their own mental concepts (opinions)

...just a thought, just a thought
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  #1363  
Old 04-17-2011, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by chami View Post
i think personally that to be given a Dukedom is no where near as good as being a Prince or Princess,so why not keep things as they are.?

Huh? William will still be a prince. He's not getting that title stripped from him, he would be getting another one added to it. He'd be HRH Prince William of Wales, Duke of X. It's not like he'd cease to be a Prince of the United Kingdom or something.
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  #1364  
Old 04-17-2011, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sherlock221B View Post
I don't understand...what is this aversion to William receiving a dukedom? The main hypothesis being that he wants to keep as low a profile as possible and becoming a duke would hinder that.
I would think that the problem with making him the Duke of Cambridge is that in the modern world it would be confusing to people. If he is called the Duke of Cambridge for 15 years, and his wife is the Duchess of Cambridge then the world will get used to that, and have to switch to Prince and Princess of Wales.

The Queen may be averse to bucking centuries of tradition and making Catherine a Princess in her own right. She didn't make Phillip a Prince until they were married for almost a decade, and she had been Queen for almost 5 years.

I personally think that while he is still in the RAF, they should take the quiet approach and simply call her "Lady Catherine". When they appear together they will be "TRH Prince and Princess William of Wales".

When she has a child, the Queen can make her a Princess in her own right.

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Originally Posted by chami View Post
i think personally that to be given a Dukedom is no where near as good as being a Prince or Princess,so why not keep things as they are.?
The problem is not William's title, it is Catherine's. As it stands right now she is only entitled to be called HRH Princess William. It sounds old-fashioned. Princess Michael has had to use her husband's first name since they were married on 30 June 1978. She may not like it, but she doesn't have as much international visibility.
  #1365  
Old 04-17-2011, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by pacomartin View Post
When she has a child, the Queen can make her a Princess in her own right.
I do not know why anyone has an obsession with Catherine becoming a "princess in her own right". I never understood why Diana, who had the second highest title in England as Princess of Wales, had to be called, "Princess Diana", either.

I doubt very much that Queen Elizabeth, who is extremely traditional, will see the need to make Catherine a, "princess in her own right" so that she can be called, "Princess Catherine" (a dubious distinction when one is Princess of Wales!) when they are born, not made.

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  #1366  
Old 04-17-2011, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pacomartin View Post
I would think that the problem with making him the Duke of Cambridge is that in the modern world it would be confusing to people. If he is called the Duke of Cambridge for 15 years, and his wife is the Duchess of Cambridge then the world will get used to that, and have to switch to Prince and Princess of Wales.
Yeah, but no. Catholics knew Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger for many years, but had no trouble understanding him to be Pope Benedict XVI once he became elevated to the papacy. I expect that we will adapt when the Prince of Wales becomes King Charles III (or King George VII).

Just like when your lifelong friend Sally Smith becomes Mrs. John Jones.
  #1367  
Old 04-17-2011, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by abcdxyz View Post
Yeah, but no. Catholics knew Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger for many years, but had no trouble understanding him to be Pope Benedict XVI once he became elevated to the papacy. I expect that we will adapt when the Prince of Wales becomes King Charles III (or King George VII).

Just like when your lifelong friend Sally Smith becomes Mrs. John Jones.
Often, female celebrities do not change their names or at most, add their husband's name at the end (e.g. Eva Longoria Parker and Courtney Cox Arquette during their marriages) to avoid confusion. But occasionally, they will take their husbands' names and I notice this is more common in British celebs than American ones. Victoria "Posh Spice" Adams became Victoria Beckham and is probably more associated with the Beckham name than she ever was as Adams. Cheryl Cole (nee Tweedy) is keeping her name despite the fact that she is now divorced from Ashley Cole.
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  #1368  
Old 04-17-2011, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pacomartin View Post
I would think that the problem with making him the Duke of Cambridge is that in the modern world it would be confusing to people. If he is called the Duke of Cambridge for 15 years, and his wife is the Duchess of Cambridge then the world will get used to that, and have to switch to Prince and Princess of Wales.

The Queen may be averse to bucking centuries of tradition and making Catherine a Princess in her own right. She didn't make Phillip a Prince until they were married for almost a decade, and she had been Queen for almost 5 years.

I personally think that while he is still in the RAF, they should take the quiet approach and simply call her "Lady Catherine". When they appear together they will be "TRH Prince and Princess William of Wales".

When she has a child, the Queen can make her a Princess in her own right.

Philip was born a prince of the blood, but renounced his titles into order to marry her. All the Queen did was give him that princely title back. It isn't like he never had it and she gave it to him anyway. Furthermore, Catherine won't be called "Lady Catherine" because that's not how the wife of a prince is addressed. She'd be "her royal highness", whether William is given a dukedom or not.

Giving William a dukedom would not be confusing to people.
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  #1369  
Old 04-17-2011, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
Philip was born a prince of the blood, but renounced his titles into order to marry her. All the Queen did was give him that princely title back. It isn't like he never had it and she gave it to him anyway. Furthermore, Catherine won't be called "Lady Catherine" because that's not how the wife of a prince is addressed. She'd be "her royal highness", whether William is given a dukedom or not.

Giving William a dukedom would not be confusing to people. Maybe you think people are dumb, but I don't.
1) Phillip gave up Danish and Greek princely titles in 1947. He was given a the style of a British prince in 1957.

2) Catherine will be called Her Royal Highness Princess William, just as Prince Michael's wife is called Her Royal Highness Princess Michael. I mentioned "Lady Catherine" as a way to use her first name without bucking tradition and calling her "Princess Catherine".

3) Look at George W Bush who kept calling Queen Elizabeth the "Queen of England" in interviews. You would think he would have protocol advisors to tell him that the title vanished hundreds of years ago. As Catherine will presumably visit many countries as a royal before the Queen dies, if people get used to calling her one thing, they will be confused if her title changes.
  #1370  
Old 04-17-2011, 03:12 PM
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So he's he called her Queen of England? Myself and others say that all the time. Most people don't know the specifics of titles. Expecting everyone to know the history and backstory of a title is a bit much to me.
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  #1371  
Old 04-17-2011, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pacomartin View Post
1) Phillip gave up Danish and Greek princely titles in 1947. He was given a the style of a British prince in 1957.
I just said that. As in, I literally typed in the response you quoted that Philip was born with a princely status and renounced the titles to marry Elizabeth, who then in turn gave them back to him. You didn't need to tell me again. I don't know why you told me again, unless you think I suffer from short-term memory loss or something.

Quote:
2) Catherine will be called Her Royal Highness Princess William, just as Prince Michael's wife is called Her Royal Highness Princess Michael. I mentioned "Lady Catherine" as a way to use her first name without bucking tradition and calling her "Princess Catherine".
I know she'll be HRH Princess William of Wales if William is not given a dukedom. I just said in the response that you quoted, that she'll be called "her royal highness" when addressed. I also know Princess Michael's situation as well. You didn't need to tell me.

Quote:
As Catherine will presumably visit many countries as a royal before the Queen dies, if people get used to calling her one thing, they will be confused if her title changes.
No they won't. The press is going to call her Princess Kate, whether the Queen allows her to style herself as Princess Catherine or not, and that's what people are going to call her, regardless of what her actual title is. So no, people aren't going to get "confused" if she's the Duchess of Cambridge (or some place else) for umpteen years, before William is invested as The Prince of Wales. I don't think people got confused when William's father went from The Prince Charles to The Prince of Wales in 1969. They just started calling him The Prince of Wales.
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  #1372  
Old 04-17-2011, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post
So he's dumb cause he called her Queen of England? Myself and others say that all the time and I can assure you that I'm not dumb. Most people don't know the specifics of titles. Expecting everyone to know the history and backstory of a title is dumb to me.

Knowing basic history is different than knowing the difference between "His Royal Highness", "His Highness", and "His Serene Highness" or that the wife of an Earl is a "Countess".
  #1373  
Old 04-17-2011, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
I just said that. As in, I literally typed in the response you quoted that Philip was born with a princely status and renounced the titles to marry Elizabeth, who then in turn gave them back to him. You didn't need to tell me again. I don't know why you told me again, unless you think I suffer from short-term memory loss or something.
"Princely status" does not exist. She did not "give him back his princely status". She made him a British Prince.

My fault in using the word address. Of course she will be verbally addressed as "Your Royal Highness" without any qualification. I really meant to say is how will her name be addressed in print or how will people refer to her in news articles. Princess Michael does not have the international visibility that Catherine has, so her style is less important.
  #1374  
Old 04-17-2011, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
Great-grandchildren in the male line carry the HH title, rather than HRH. So William and Catherine's eldest son will be HRH if the Queen is still alive, and any subsequent children they have before her death will be HH Prince/Princess of Wales. That's according to letters patent that dictate who gets the HRH and who doesn't. Right now it's the children of the monarch, grandchildren of the monarch in the male line and the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales.
The title of His Highness was abolished in 1917. For instance HH Prince Alastair of Connaught lost both his title of HH, and of Prince at the age of 3. He was now common, and under the new letters patent as a male line descendant of Queen Victoria, he was give the surname Windsor.
  #1375  
Old 04-17-2011, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pacomartin View Post
"Princely status" does not exist. She did not "give him back his princely status". She made him a British Prince.

Princely status does in fact, exist. When Elizabeth and Philip married, her father issued Letters Patent that stated any children of that marriage would be afforded a princely and royal status, as otherwise they wouldn't have been entitled to it as grandchildren of the monarch in the female line. As it was very apparent in 1948 when Charles was born that the King and Queen would be having no more children, Charles was the heir of the heir (same as William is now), and without those Letters Patent would have been styled with one of his father's courtesy titles, and his sister would have been just Lady Anne Mountbatten. Those Letters Patent gave them a princely status, meaning they were HRH Prince Charles of Edinburgh and HRH Princess Anne of Edinburgh.

So yes, when the Queen made Philip a prince of the United Kingdom, she was giving back to him the princely status he had before he married the-then Princess Elizabeth, when he renounced all his foreign titles in order to marry her. Before she did this, he wasn't a prince, just a duke. By giving him back his princely title (the one he was born with), he became a royal prince who was also a duke.
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  #1376  
Old 04-17-2011, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by pacomartin View Post
The title of His Highness was abolished in 1917. For instance HH Prince Alastair of Connaught lost both his title of HH, and of Prince at the age of 3. He was now common, and under the new letters patent as a male line descendant of Queen Victoria, he was give the surname Windsor.

You know what would be really nice? If you quoted me correctly. When I posted that, I had forgotten about the 1917 Letters Patent and later corrected myself in a future post on the subject. Any subsequent conversations I've had with people on this board about the titles of grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the monarch, have been in reference to said Letters Patent.

I'd appreciate it you quit randomly quoting my posts and then telling me things I already know and have discussed at length on this board already.
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  #1377  
Old 04-17-2011, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Lynton5 View Post
They will be known as , The Prince And Princess William of Wales .

However there was talk at court that they may adopt the title of Duke and Duchess of Windsor in honor of the Queens uncle King Edward the Eighth .
And you're a courtier and have heard this yourself. I see.

Well, again, I very much doubt that Windsor will ever be used again in the BRF. The guy and his wife were Nazi toadies and sympathizers, which never goes over well in Britain (note Prince Harry's huge costume-party gaffe), and the Queen Mother, I have read, always held that David's abdication, forcing Bertie to be King, was responsible for her husband's early death, and was implacable in her hatred of both Windsors.

And Parliament would never allow it, which is more to the point.
  #1378  
Old 04-17-2011, 05:01 PM
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Luckily we only have 12 days to go to get all these questions answered.
  #1379  
Old 04-17-2011, 05:04 PM
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A quick clean up was in order for this thread removing the most recent disagreements between members.
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  #1380  
Old 04-17-2011, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DuchessRennie View Post
And you're a courtier and have heard this yourself. I see.

Well, again, I very much doubt that Windsor will ever be used again in the BRF. The guy and his wife were Nazi toadies and sympathizers, which never goes over well in Britain (note Prince Harry's huge costume-party gaffe), and the Queen Mother, I have read, always held that David's abdication, forcing Bertie to be King, was responsible for her husband's early death, and was implacable in her hatred of both Windsors.

And Parliament would never allow it, which is more to the point.
The Parliament wouldn't allow it? While I do agree completely that the Dukedom of Windsor won't be granted for a long time, if ever, I don't see why the Parliament would be involved, as the Queen is the font of all honours? Just curious...
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