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View Poll Results: What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?
Duke of Clarence 25 16.45%
Duke of Cambridge 68 44.74%
Duke of Sussex 5 3.29%
Duke of Windsor 8 5.26%
Duke of Kendall 2 1.32%
Earl of Something 8 5.26%
Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else. 10 6.58%
Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales 26 17.11%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1301  
Old 04-11-2011, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
William's eldest son would be "HRH Prince X" if he retains his current style, not "of Wales". He would not be the child of The Prince of Wales.

No, his son would be HRH Prince X of Wales. You're right in that he would not be the son of The Prince of Wales, but he'd be the son of a Prince of Wales, so he'd be entitled to that titular dignity. If his father's territorial designation is Wales, his would be Wales. If William is granted the Dukedom of Cambridge, he'd be HRH Prince X of Cambridge.

Any other children that William and Catherine have while the Queen still reigns would be Lord/Lady X Windsor, until their grandfather became King, at which time they'd all be elevated to HRH Prince/Princess X of Cornwall & Y (whatever territorial designation William may receive as an earldom or dukedom on his wedding day).
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  #1302  
Old 04-11-2011, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock221B View Post
Noooooo problem....what does that have to do with him receiving a dukedom, or not, upon his marriage?

It has been suggested that he should't because he will receive the dukedoms of Cornwall and Rothesay as the PoW. Which is true...nevertheless his great-great-grandfather King George V was a blood royal duke, Duke of York, before he became PoW...in addition his older brother, Prince Albert who was the eldest son of the PoW (like William), was also bestowed a dukedom, Duke of Clarence before their father ascended to the throne as King Edward VII

Therefore why would William's future titles...PoW & the accompanying dukedoms...KING...influence if the Queen bestows a dukedom to him on his wedding day?

Could someone please clarify?

They wouldn't, as it is my understanding. It is tradition for a dukedom/earldom to be offered on a prince's wedding day (and an earldom has been offered to men marrying royal princesses as well). William could very well turn it down, or he could accept. Either way, we've seen in history, as you correctly pointed out, where sovereigns have bestowed dukedoms on sons that would later receive other dukedoms upon their father's ascension to the throne. William would just have two dukedoms to his name then in England/Scotland, when Charles becomes king.

For example, say he is given the Dukedom of Sussex on his wedding day. When Charles becomes King, he'd be HRH The Prince William, Duke of Cornwall and Sussex. In Scotland, he'd be the Duke of Rothesay and Sussex. Any children he and Catherine have at that time would be HRH Prince/Princess X of Cornwall and Sussex, just like George VI was briefly HRH Prince Albert of Cornwall and York.

So it's happened before, and it may very well happen again.
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  #1303  
Old 04-11-2011, 06:15 PM
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Although The Prince of Wales's other titles (Duke of Cornwall, Rothsay, etc.) are restricted to the oldest son AND heir apparent, The Duke of Edinburgh's titles descend in the "ordinary" way under the original Letters Patent. So, in the same way that The Earl of Wessex's son and heir James is known as "Viscount Severn" (even though he is legally Prince James of Wessex under the 1917 Letters Patent) and the heirs to the Kent and Gloucester dukedoms are Earl of St. Andrews and Earl of Ulster, Prince William could theoretically be called "Baron Greenwich" as the heir-to-the-heir of The Duke of Edinburgh ("Earl of Merioneth" being the heir's designation), just as Baron Downpatrick and Baron Culloden are the heirs-to-the-heirs of Kent and Gloucester. Royal Highnesses have traditionally not used courtesy titles, but they do still possess them under British tradition - and young James is using his.
  #1304  
Old 04-11-2011, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post
Is a dukedom the only title he can receive? What about an earldom, etc?

He could receive any title the Queen wishes to give him.
  #1305  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:07 PM
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My prediction is William would prefer not to be a Duke at this time given that he is still a young man completing his military training on base and doesn't care to be burdened with such a grand title right now. He may accept an Earldom for the sake of his wife having an appropriate title upon marriage.

Given The Queen's age, his father may be King within a decade. He may even succeed his grandmother as King if his father doesn't survive to see the throne or Charles' reign could be relatively brief. In a short period of time, he will have all the titles and responsibilities of his position, so he may desire a respite for now.
  #1306  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:26 PM
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The voice of ignorance here ... what are the "responsibilities" that go along with the title of Duke?
  #1307  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess of Durham View Post
The voice of ignorance here ... what are the "responsibilities" that go along with the title of Duke?

None.

In the past they were involved in the government of the day as they could take their seat in the House of Lords but since 1999 the vast majority have not had that role.

They may own large tracts of land and/or other property that they are responsible for managing but that could just as easily apply to any rich person.

The title is just a title with no meaning in day to day life anymore.
  #1308  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg

My prediction is William would prefer not to be a Duke at this time given that he is still a young man completing his military training on base and doesn't care to be burdened with such a grand title right now.
Burdened?! Grand Title?! He is a Commodore-in-Chief in the Royal Navy, a Honorary Air Commandant in the RAF, the Colonel of the Irish Guards, a Royal Knight in the Order of the Garter...and he should reject a dukedom because of its grandness, because it would be burdensome?

Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
Given The Queen's age, his father may be King within a decade. He may even succeed his grandmother as King if his father doesn't survive to see the throne or Charles' reign could be relatively brief. In a short period of time, he will have all the titles and responsibilities of his position, so he may desire a respite for now.
Respite? see above...
  #1309  
Old 04-11-2011, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
No, his son would be HRH Prince X of Wales. You're right in that he would not be the son of The Prince of Wales, but he'd be the son of a Prince of Wales, so he'd be entitled to that titular dignity. If his father's territorial designation is Wales, his would be Wales. If William is granted the Dukedom of Cambridge, he'd be HRH Prince X of Cambridge.
As far as I can tell, such a situation has only come up once, when Prince Alastair of Connaught (later the second Duke) was born. The question of what to call him came up at the time, and they eventually settled on having the King issue letters patent allowing him and future children of Prince Arthur of Connaught to be designated "of Connaught." I'm not sure whether that precedent would be followed automatically or whether letters parent would have to be issued. At the time, territorial designations were a more recent development, so there wasn't much guidance as to exactly how they should work. Although, if Prince William has a son before the death of the Queen, then that child will be the first great-grandchild since 1917 to be a prince, so given the organic nature of designations, there might not be a firm answer as to what the child will be called if Prince William isn't granted a peerage.

(As for Prince Alastair, the question of his style was ultimately moot, as he lost his princely styles and titles when he was only three years old, as George V removed them from great-grandchildren of the sovereign.)
  #1310  
Old 04-11-2011, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherlock221B View Post
Burdened?! Grand Title?! He is a Commodore-in-Chief in the Royal Navy, a Honorary Air Commandant in the RAF, the Colonel of the Irish Guards, a Royal Knight in the Order of the Garter...and he should reject a dukedom because of its grandness, because it would be burdensome?.

Touche...I have too agree 100%
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  #1311  
Old 04-12-2011, 02:30 AM
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William strikes me as a very polite young man who will understand the significance of his grandmother's gift and accept it, whatever it is.

I could be wrong, but that's my intuition about it.
  #1312  
Old 04-12-2011, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
.... just like George VI was briefly HRH Prince Albert of Cornwall and York.
Was George VI ever Prince Albert of Cornwall and York?
  #1313  
Old 04-12-2011, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Was George VI ever Prince Albert of Cornwall and York?

Yes - while his father was Duke of Cornwall and York George VI would have been Prince Albert of Cornwall and York.

That was from January - November 1901.
  #1314  
Old 04-12-2011, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Yes - while his father was Duke of Cornwall and York George VI would have been Prince Albert of Cornwall and York.

That was from January - November 1901.
Many thanks for that.
  #1315  
Old 04-12-2011, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Yes - while his father was Duke of Cornwall and York George VI would have been Prince Albert of Cornwall and York.

That was from January - November 1901.
Yep, his father was 2nd son and was granted Dukedom of York, but when his elder brother passed away, he immediately became Duke of Cornwall. I had the same reaction and checked on it.
  #1316  
Old 04-12-2011, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal_Eagle View Post
Yep, his father was 2nd son and was granted Dukedom of York, but when his elder brother passed away, he immediately became Duke of Cornwall. I had the same reaction and checked on it.

George V didn't became Duke of Cornwall on the death of his older brother. He had to wait nearly another 9 years after Eddy's death before getting the Cornwall title. His father held that title throughout Eddy's life.

George VI's father, George V, was created Duke of York by Queen Victoria in May 1892. His older brother died shortly before this happened, in January 1892. Goerge married in 1893 so he was created a Duke the year before his marriage but only months after he became 2nd in line to the throne after the death of his older brother. His father was the Prince of Wales at the time.

In 1901 Victoria died and George V automatically took the titles Duke of Cornwall and Rothesay etc - the same ones Charles took at the exact instant his mother became Queen and that William will assume the instant the present Queen dies (unless Charles has already died).

George V was known throughout most of 1901 as Duke of Cornwall and York until his father decided to create him Prince of Wales in November.

Dates: 1841 Edward VII born and becomes Duke of Cornwall etc
1890 Albert Victor created Duke of Clarence and Avondale
1892 Albert Victor dies
1892 George created Duke of York
1901 Victoria dies, George automatically becomes Duke of Cornwall etc as father becomes Edward VII, holds titles as Duke of Cornwall and York (it was with those titles that he opened the first ever Australian Parliament in May 1901).
1901 George V created Prince of Wales.
  #1317  
Old 04-12-2011, 10:38 AM
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I really have no speculation on the titles of Prince William and Catherine. I was thinking that maybe the Queen will keep the Prince title, since that is how we all know him, etc. But then there's the question of th making Catherine Princess, and apparently they are members of the royal family who have more claim to the title Princess and aren't. (I could be wrong here though)

My final thoughs are HRH Prince William and HRH Princess William (I think that's how it goes - correct me if I'm wrong - I'm a little new to this)
  #1318  
Old 04-12-2011, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
George V didn't became Duke of Cornwall on the death of his older brother. He had to wait nearly another 9 years after Eddy's death before getting the Cornwall title. His father held that title throughout Eddy's life.
Oops, I stand corrected--thanks! I must have checked too quickly.
  #1319  
Old 04-12-2011, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris77 View Post
I really have no speculation on the titles of Prince William and Catherine. I was thinking that maybe the Queen will keep the Prince title, since that is how we all know him, etc. But then there's the question of th making Catherine Princess, and apparently they are members of the royal family who have more claim to the title Princess and aren't. (I could be wrong here though)

My final thoughs are HRH Prince William and HRH Princess William (I think that's how it goes - correct me if I'm wrong - I'm a little new to this)

William will still be Prince William even with a title.

The difference will be how they are referred to officially in things like the Court Circular - with no title it will by HRH Prince and Princess William of Wales.

I see no problem with that - no difference to Duke and Duchess of xxxx - she is still giving up her own identity to take on his so does it matter what title he uses - she will still only get it through marriage.
  #1320  
Old 04-13-2011, 09:22 AM
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Ah, that makes sense. Thank you!
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