The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
View Poll Results: What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?
Duke of Clarence 25 16.45%
Duke of Cambridge 68 44.74%
Duke of Sussex 5 3.29%
Duke of Windsor 8 5.26%
Duke of Kendall 2 1.32%
Earl of Something 8 5.26%
Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else. 10 6.58%
Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales 26 17.11%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1241  
Old 04-08-2011, 02:20 PM
Mia_mae's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SP, Brazil
Posts: 1,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
If William is not given an earldom or a dukedom, he will continue being HRH Prince William of Wales. If he and Catherine have a son while the Queen still reigns, and that son's name is George, he would HRH Prince George of Wales. All other children they have while the Queen still reigns would be Lord/Lady X Windsor.

When Charles becomes King, and William becomes Duke of Cornwall, any children he has will be HRH Prince/Princess X of Cornwall. Just like the children of George V were HRH Prince/Princess X of Cornwall and York when Edward VII became King. If William is then invested as the Prince of Wales, his children will then be HRH Prince/Princess X of Wales, as their father's main title will be The Prince of Wales, rather than The Duke of Cornwall. Children take their titles from their fathers (and in very rare exceptions, their mothers). So whatever territorial designations William has, his children will have.
thanks! let's said if the laws for succession were to change, from male primogeniture to just primogeniture, how would things change? If their first-born is a daughter, she would be HRH Princess xx of Wales, and the other ones Lord/Lady?
__________________

__________________
There's not much of a difference between a stadium full of cheering fans and an angry crowd screaming abuse at you. They're both just making a lot of noise. How you take it is up to you. Convince yourself they're cheering for you. You do that, and someday, they will - Sue S.
  #1242  
Old 04-08-2011, 03:13 PM
Susanna Wynne's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jackson Hole, United States
Posts: 266
Prince William's current and future titles: an explanation.

We do go in circles on this topic...:

It is my understanding that Prince William will always be Prince William of Wales until his father becomes king, because that title denotes that he is the son of The Prince of Wales. If the queen so decides, to the title "Prince William of Wales" will be added " Duke of .......".

It is entirely correct to refer to The Earl of Wessex as "The Prince Edward, The Earl of Wessex", and the Duke of Edinburgh is correctly referred to as "The Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh," -- and yet he is commonly referred to as "The Duke of Edinburgh.

Using that standard, Prince William's full title, if he is granted a dukedom, will be Prince William of Wales, Duke of ......." and Catherine would be styled Princess William of Wales, Duchess of......." However, they will be regularly referred to as the Duke of......... and the Duchess of...., just as Andrew and Sarah were called the Duke and the Duchess of York, yet he was and is still a Royal Prince, son of the monarch, so his full title is "The Prince Andrew, Duke of York."

Explanation: Until his father accedes to the throne, William will continue to be "a" Prince of Wales, not "The" Prince of Wales. And upon Charles's succession, William will immediately be titled "The Prince William, Duke of Cornwall" until such time as Charles creates William " The Prince of Wales," which is a higher title. Then he will be formally "The Prince William, The Prince of Wales, as he will be the son of a king and therefore entitled to "The" before his title of Prince, which now he is not. He will primarily be referred to at that time as The Prince of Wales, but will continue to be The Prince William, just as Charles now is officially "The Prince Charles, The Prince of Wales."

The BIG QUESTION is whether the queen offers and William accepts a dukedom. If no dukedom is offered or accepted, the queen must then decide whether to follow tradition -- or make an exception to the normal rule in Catherine's sake. For under the traditional manner, she would be styled "Princess William of Wales." The queen could make an exception and allow her to be styled "Princess Catherine of Wales." I have no idea how likely that would be, but the queen can do whatever she wishes in such matters.
__________________

  #1243  
Old 04-08-2011, 03:15 PM
HRHofNothing's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: somewhere in, Canada
Posts: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
As an independent female why should she take any title at all from her husband - whatever she uses it will be due to him and not anything she has done. Every name she uses from April 29 will be because of who she married and nothing else so why not be totally honest and use his name - Princess William sounds fine to me - as a feminist - it shows exactly what she has done.

Best post in this thread!
  #1244  
Old 04-08-2011, 03:17 PM
Sister Morphine's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posts: 2,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia_mae View Post
thanks! let's said if the laws for succession were to change, from male primogeniture to just primogeniture, how would things change? If their first-born is a daughter, she would be HRH Princess xx of Wales, and the other ones Lord/Lady?
The sovereign would have to issue new Letters Patent dictating the new styling conventions for the eldest child of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales, assuming that the institution of equal primogeniture would not be retroactive, and would continue on with William and Catherine's children.

The institution of equal primogeniture would also bring up the debate about the non-gender neutrality of the heir's titles. For example, Princess of Wales is the wife of The Prince of Wales, not the heiress to the throne (the Queen never held the title). If England adopts equal primogeniture, the title would have to be abolished, as it's not gender-neutral. Same with all the other titles the heir to throne holds.
__________________
"The grass was greener / The light was brighter / The taste was sweeter / The nights of wonder / With friends surrounded / The dawn mist glowing / The water flowing / The endless river / Forever and ever........ "
  #1245  
Old 04-08-2011, 04:01 PM
HRHofNothing's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: somewhere in, Canada
Posts: 208
I think William will be created a Duke-to pave the way for Harry.

Harry is not going to be inheriting any titles upon his father or brother's accession. The best opportunity to grant him a title would be on the morning of his wedding. Since there is a possibility that the Queen would still be reigning when Harry marries, it would be wierd to grant him a dukedom if William does not already have one. So, I believe William will be given one on the 29th..
  #1246  
Old 04-08-2011, 05:28 PM
Mia_mae's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SP, Brazil
Posts: 1,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHofNothing View Post
Best post in this thread!
well, if we think about it you can extend this to all royal titles. They are given because of birth. You have the title because you are the "son of your father", not because of a application or because people feel like it. What happens later on it's another matter.
__________________
There's not much of a difference between a stadium full of cheering fans and an angry crowd screaming abuse at you. They're both just making a lot of noise. How you take it is up to you. Convince yourself they're cheering for you. You do that, and someday, they will - Sue S.
  #1247  
Old 04-08-2011, 05:32 PM
Mia_mae's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SP, Brazil
Posts: 1,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
The sovereign would have to issue new Letters Patent dictating the new styling conventions for the eldest child of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales, assuming that the institution of equal primogeniture would not be retroactive, and would continue on with William and Catherine's children.

The institution of equal primogeniture would also bring up the debate about the non-gender neutrality of the heir's titles. For example, Princess of Wales is the wife of The Prince of Wales, not the heiress to the throne (the Queen never held the title). If England adopts equal primogeniture, the title would have to be abolished, as it's not gender-neutral. Same with all the other titles the heir to throne holds.
uff, I'm tired for you! tnks again
__________________
There's not much of a difference between a stadium full of cheering fans and an angry crowd screaming abuse at you. They're both just making a lot of noise. How you take it is up to you. Convince yourself they're cheering for you. You do that, and someday, they will - Sue S.
  #1248  
Old 04-08-2011, 06:36 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,277
You know if they really don't want a new title they could use a courtesy title of Baron and Baronness Greenwich - as the second in line to the Dukedom of Edinburgh (like the Duke of Gloucester's grandson uses Lord Culloden and the Duke of Kent's grandson uses Lord Downpatrick.

Just a thought!!
  #1249  
Old 04-08-2011, 06:47 PM
CrownPrincess5's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Beverly Hills, California, United States
Posts: 2,555
Is the title a "gift" from the queen? Is it a must that she bestow a title on Will?
__________________
I don't dream at night, I dream all day. I dream for a living.
-Steven Spielberg
  #1250  
Old 04-08-2011, 06:55 PM
Sister Morphine's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posts: 2,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
You know if they really don't want a new title they could use a courtesy title of Baron and Baronness Greenwich - as the second in line to the Dukedom of Edinburgh (like the Duke of Gloucester's grandson uses Lord Culloden and the Duke of Kent's grandson uses Lord Downpatrick.

Just a thought!!
Highly unlikely considering that the Earl of Wessex is expected to receive the dukedom of Edinburgh after Philip dies. To do that would be a slap in the face to Edward, because then the title would belong to William and his descendants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownPrincess5 View Post
Is the title a "gift" from the queen? Is it a must that she bestow a title on Will?
It's not a gift per se, nor is she required to do it. It is however, customary for a prince to receive a dukedom (or earldom) on his wedding day. The only one I can think off the top of my head who didn't was Charles, as he already was in possession of several titles when he married Diana in 1981. I mean, even Prince Philip received a dukedom on his wedding day.
__________________
"The grass was greener / The light was brighter / The taste was sweeter / The nights of wonder / With friends surrounded / The dawn mist glowing / The water flowing / The endless river / Forever and ever........ "
  #1251  
Old 04-08-2011, 06:58 PM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal_Eagle

That was the very exact situation I was thinking of when I suggested that the Queen might issue LPs to make children of PW and Catherine HRHs. But I'd guess it'd be more likely PW and Catherine wouldn't want her to do that and raise them as Lords/Ladies (with the exception of first son)

We shall see what will happen.
If she did issue LPs making Williams children all HRH's would that make them all Princes/Princesses? Or can it be HRH Lady x of Cambridge (assuming that's the dukedom granted)?

Or if William is a Duke does that automatically make his children Princess or Prince? I get that if he doesn't get a dukedom only the oldest son is HRH but if he Does get a dukedom are his other children HRH's or not? Or Princess/Princes?
  #1252  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:02 PM
Sister Morphine's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posts: 2,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
If she did issue LPs making Williams children all HRH's would that make them all Princes/Princesses?

Yes. If the Queen decided that all of William's children should have a royal and princely status, they would be HRH Prince/Princess X of Y. However, it's not likely she'd do that, considering that when Charles takes the throne, William's children will automatically become HRH Prince/Princess X of Y as grandchildren of the monarch in the male line.
__________________
"The grass was greener / The light was brighter / The taste was sweeter / The nights of wonder / With friends surrounded / The dawn mist glowing / The water flowing / The endless river / Forever and ever........ "
  #1253  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:07 PM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

The sovereign would have to issue new Letters Patent dictating the new styling conventions for the eldest child of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales, assuming that the institution of equal primogeniture would not be retroactive, and would continue on with William and Catherine's children.

The institution of equal primogeniture would also bring up the debate about the non-gender neutrality of the heir's titles. For example, Princess of Wales is the wife of The Prince of Wales, not the heiress to the throne (the Queen never held the title). If England adopts equal primogeniture, the title would have to be abolished, as it's not gender-neutral. Same with all the other titles the heir to throne holds.
Couldn't they just say the POW is now reissued to eldest child of sovreign as heir and their spouse - thus if it's a girl she can be Princess of Wales and her husband Prince....no need to abolish it, just repackage it.....
  #1254  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:13 PM
Sister Morphine's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posts: 2,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
Couldn't they just say the POW is now reissued to eldest child of sovreign as heir and their spouse - thus if it's a girl she can be Princess of Wales and her husband Prince....no need to abolish it, just repackage it.....

I'm not sure how it would work. It's not the tradition in the BRF for husbands to take their titles from their wives, assuming you mean that the Princess of Wales as heiress would have a husband titled the Prince of Wales.
__________________
"The grass was greener / The light was brighter / The taste was sweeter / The nights of wonder / With friends surrounded / The dawn mist glowing / The water flowing / The endless river / Forever and ever........ "
  #1255  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:32 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,043
Nor is it the tradition in the UK for any couple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
It's not the tradition in the BRF for husbands to take their titles from their wives, assuming you mean that the Princess of Wales as heiress would have a husband titled the Prince of Wales.
  #1256  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:37 PM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

I'm not sure how it would work. It's not the tradition in the BRF for husbands to take their titles from their wives, assuming you mean that the Princess of Wales as heiress would have a husband titled the Prince of Wales.
But if the rules changed and woman can inherit the throne (ie first born) wouldn't men automatically be able to inherit wives titles or is that 2 different issues?
  #1257  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:53 PM
Sister Morphine's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posts: 2,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
But if the rules changed and woman can inherit the throne (ie first born) wouldn't men automatically be able to inherit wives titles or is that 2 different issues?

That would be two different issues, I think. One issue pertains to inheritance, the other to the styling conventions of spouses. What Sweden is doing, with equal primogeniture and husbands taking their styles from their wives, is very radical for most monarchies.

You could see this becoming more of an issue when Ingrid Alexandra, Elisabeth, Catharina-Amalia, and Leonor are older, because then you'd have a glut of heiresses, rather than heirs. If William and Catherine's first born is a girl, then she would come into play with that as well.
__________________
"The grass was greener / The light was brighter / The taste was sweeter / The nights of wonder / With friends surrounded / The dawn mist glowing / The water flowing / The endless river / Forever and ever........ "
  #1258  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:56 PM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

That would be two different issues, I think. One issue pertains to inheritance, the other to the styling conventions of spouses. What Sweden is doing, with equal primogeniture and husbands taking their styles from their wives, is very radical for most monarchies.

You could see this becoming more of an issue when Ingrid Alexandra, Elisabeth, Catharina-Amalia, and Leonor are older, because then you'd have a glut of heiresses, rather than heirs. If William and Catherine's first born is a girl, then she would come into play with that as well.
Ah! Makes sense now, thank you for clarifying!
  #1259  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:57 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
Highly unlikely considering that the Earl of Wessex is expected to receive the dukedom of Edinburgh after Philip dies. To do that would be a slap in the face to Edward, because then the title would belong to William and his descendants.

Edward won't receive the Edinburgh Dukedom when Philip dies unless Charles is already King and recreates the title for Edward.


When Charles does inherit Edinburgh and the Crown then it is available for Edward but in the meantime it isn't and William is higher in the order of succession to that title. It might even pass to William's descendents rather than Edward's anyway e.g. William and Kate have a daughter and then a son, with a consequent change in the order of succession to allow the new Diana to inherit that crown ahead of her younger brother then the son would still be in line to the Edinburgh title. Now have Charles and William both predecease Philip and that son becomes Duke of Edinburgh and Edward misses out.

The Edinburgh title has normal remainders so Edward is currently 5th in line to inherit that title compared to William's second.
  #1260  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:07 PM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

Edward won't receive the Edinburgh Dukedom when Philip dies unless Charles is already King and recreates the title for Edward.

When Charles does inherit Edinburgh and the Crown then it is available for Edward but in the meantime it isn't and William is higher in the order of succession to that title. It might even pass to William's descendents rather than Edward's anyway e.g. William and Kate have a daughter and then a son, with a consequent change in the order of succession to allow the new Diana to inherit that crown ahead of her younger brother then the son would still be in line to the Edinburgh title. Now have Charles and William both predecease Philip and that son becomes Duke of Edinburgh and Edward misses out.

The Edinburgh title has normal remainders so Edward is currently 5th in line to inherit that title compared to William's second.
I think her point was publically it's been said Edward will one day be DoE and to 'give' it to William would be distespectful to Edward and probably the Queen's wishes so she probably won't do so....
__________________

Closed Thread

Tags
duke, prince william & catherine middleton wedding, titles, william & kate wedding


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit best outfit december best outfit june best outfit poll british catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown princess mary crown princess mary evening dresses crown princess mary fashion current events duchess of cambridge dutch state visit e-mail fashion poll greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king willem-alexander margrethe ii member introduction monarchy new zealand norway november 2016 october 2016 october and november 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week poland state visit to norway prince charles princess marie princess mary princess mary fashion princess mette-marit's dresses princess tatiana queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima at the women deliver conference queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania casual outfit queen rania daytime fashion queen rania fashion queen rania in washington royalty september 2016 shah state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats wedding dresses


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:17 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises