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View Poll Results: What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?
Duke of Clarence 25 16.45%
Duke of Cambridge 68 44.74%
Duke of Sussex 5 3.29%
Duke of Windsor 8 5.26%
Duke of Kendall 2 1.32%
Earl of Something 8 5.26%
Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else. 10 6.58%
Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales 26 17.11%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1021  
Old 03-16-2011, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
With the history of the most recent royal unions, I don't think there is a snowball's chance in H-E-Double Hockey Sticks that Kate will be made a Princess of the Realm in her own right.
It is unlikely but apparently the Queen felt, 10 years after her marriage to Philip, that he should be a Prince of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

In theory there is no reason not to repeat this for Catherine. After all, theoretically, also the Queen's own marriage could have collapsed. And then there is also a (to be divorced) Prince in his own right walking around.
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  #1022  
Old 03-16-2011, 01:28 PM
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Yes, HM did elevate DoE to prince of the UK. When PW becomes King, he can do the same for Kate.

Are you talking about Charles?
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  #1023  
Old 03-16-2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsarevitch View Post
It is unlikely but apparently the Queen felt, 10 years after her marriage to Philip, that he should be a Prince of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

In theory there is no reason not to repeat this for Catherine. After all, theoretically, also the Queen's own marriage could have collapsed. And then there is also a (to be divorced) Prince in his own right walking around.
But I think there is a big difference. Philip was, and is, married to the monarch. AND he was born a foreign Prince, title renounced or not. But he did not automatically become a Prince of the UK by marrying the heir to the throne, nor by being married to the monarch. So George VI made him an HRH, and later the Queen made him a Prince of the UK.

But Catherine will be the wife of the second in line to the throne, and will automatically become a Princess by marriage, and whatever other titles her husband may inherit or be given, and will eventually become Queen when he becomes King (unlike Philip who did not become King or even Prince when Elizabeth became Queen). I see no reason for the Queen to change Catherine's title from Princess William to Princess Catherine based on the "precedent" of Prince Philip, since to me, the cases are not alike at all.
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  #1024  
Old 03-16-2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
Yes, HM did elevate DoE to prince of the UK. When PW becomes King, he can do the same for Kate.

UUMMM am I missing something here.....when William becomes King she will be Queen..
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  #1025  
Old 03-16-2011, 03:15 PM
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Exactly. Given that modern life, including divorce and remarriage, has now reached the royal house of Windsor, it would be ludicrous to allow the wife of a grandson to be styled as a Princess in her own right, even though it would be strictly a courtesy.

The only exception to the generally accepted rule has been for Alice, Duchess of Gloucester and Marina, Duchess of Kent, both of whom were widows of sons of George V and aunts of the current Queen. In Marina's case, she was born a Princess of Greece.

Diana was also allowed the courtesy of the style as the mother of a future king and former wife of Prince Charles. Even though she was divorced, she was permitted to retain the dignity of being "The Princess" in style and address.
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  #1026  
Old 03-16-2011, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Ann View Post
UUMMM am I missing something here.....when William becomes King she will be Queen..
If William becomes the King I think that Kate would become the "Queen Consort" which is different than Elizabeth who is the Queen of England, etc. in her own right.

I'm not completely sure but I believe then if William died while on the throne (uh, that doesn't sound very nice, but you know what I mean ) the title of King, or Queen, would then pass onto his eldest child, and if they had no children at the time his brother, or if Harry predeceased him: then Prince Andrew, and so on. Don't know what Kate would be titled then? I guess the Queen Mother at least if it was one of her children that become the monarch?

As for if William is made a Duke, I do like the sound of the Duke of Cambridge.
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  #1027  
Old 03-16-2011, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hissy View Post
If William becomes the King I think that Kate would become the "Queen Consort" which is different than Elizabeth who is the Queen of England, etc. in her own right.

I'm not completely sure but I believe then if William died while on the throne (uh, that doesn't sound very nice, but you know what I mean ) the title of King, or Queen, would then pass onto his eldest child, and if they had no children at the time his brother, or if Harry predeceased him: then Prince Andrew, and so on. Don't know what Kate would be titled then? I guess the Queen Mother at least if it was one of her children that become the monarch?

As for if William is made a Duke, I do like the sound of the Duke of Cambridge.
Then her title would be HM Queen Catherine.
This was the case with Queen Alexandra and with Queen Mary.
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  #1028  
Old 03-16-2011, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hissy View Post
If William becomes the King I think that Kate would become the "Queen Consort" which is different than Elizabeth who is the Queen of England, etc. in her own right.

I'm not completely sure but I believe then if William died while on the throne (uh, that doesn't sound very nice, but you know what I mean ) the title of King, or Queen, would then pass onto his eldest child, and if they had no children at the time his brother, or if Harry predeceased him: then Prince Andrew, and so on. Don't know what Kate would be titled then? I guess the Queen Mother at least if it was one of her children that become the monarch?

As for if William is made a Duke, I do like the sound of the Duke of Cambridge.
Kate will be Queen consort not Queen reignant, but her title will be same, Queen Catherine of the United Kingdome. If Wills is King when he dies, and their child ascends the throne, she will be the Queen mother. If they have no children and Harry becomes king, she would be the dowager queen. If he died before he takes the throne, and they have a child, she'd be dowager duchess of ...... Andrew would only be King if Harry has no children, and predeceases his brother. If King William died childless, and his brother died a year before without a child, then yes we would see king Andrew. But if Harry had a son or daughter, even if he died before his brother, his child would come before Andrew in line of inheritance. It is how Victoria became queen, her dad predeceased her Uncle, but she was next in line before younger aunts and Uncles.
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  #1029  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:00 PM
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Soooo pretty much what I just wrote minus "dowager"? Thanks for confirming, I wasn't 100% sure.
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  #1030  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
Soooo, if Kate doesn't become Princess Catherine, all that is the British Monarchy will fail? How silly.

I'm all for equal primo, papers can be drawn up now, but it needs to be postponed until William is King. It is a sensitive timing matter, as you know.
No I at no point said the royal family would fall just because Kate isn't Princess Catherine, and have in fact several times said I don't think it will happen. What I said is that the monarchy needs to be seen as moving forward, being current, not stuck in archaic tradition. A lot of the complaints against the monarchy is it wastes a lot of money, and it is archaic and has nothing to do with today. I know there seem to be 'bigger issues' like cost, but that doesn't mean there aren't ones they can solve. Small changes like this might not remove the bigger complaints, but may show the monarchy is open to change.

Why do the papers have to wait for William? It won't affect the line of inheritance now at all. Other than Anne and her children would come before Andrew and Edward and their off spring. The chances Andrew would ever come to the throne are slim to none. Charles is the eldest son, that won't change. Charles only has sons, that won't change. The only generation it will affect, are the children of William, and perhaps Harry. I think the laws need to be changed during Charles' reign. They take time to be passed. If William has a daughter before he becomes king, that becomes an issue, unless they do what Sweden did and do it retroactively, stripping Carl-Philip of his title of crown prince as a baby. It would make more sense I think for the change to be made during Charles' time.

For Catherine, I don't see or want her being made Princess Catherine. I think it far more moden and acceptable if William is named a Duke, and she is Catherine, Duchess of insert name here. Then there is no need for all the talk about Princess William being sexist, and no need to go against precdent.
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  #1031  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsarevitch View Post
For myself I expect that, seen the foreseeable limited period, Miss Middleton will be known as HRH Princess William of Wales until she automatically becomes HRH The Duchess of Cornwall (Rothesay) and eventually HRH The Princess of Wales.

But if the Queen would like to see that Catherine will be known as 'HRH Princess Catherine' she can do two things. The first is simply make known that the Court will use the style Princess Catherine. The examples of Camilla and the children of the Earl of Wessex show that this can easily be arranged.

The other option is that the Queen repeats what she herself did to her husband, namely create Catherine a Princess of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland in her own right.
I'm sorry in your mind the only two options are she is either Princess William or is granted the right to be called Princess Catherine? It is pretty standard custom, when a royal prince weds, he is granted a title whether it be duke or Earl. If William is, then she will be Catherine Duchess of Camebridge for instance.

The fact is the queen is 80. Her mother lived to be 102, so the queen could rule for another 10-20 years. I don't see her abdicating like the Dutch do. It isn't like the queen is on her death bed, and Will will become Duke of Cornwall in a year or so. He could, but the queen seems in good health. Perhaps an earl or marquis, since the title will just merge with the throne when he becomes king, but a title I don't see being too out there.
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  #1032  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:53 PM
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I'm done with this topic, too. It has been hashed to death.
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  #1033  
Old 03-16-2011, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I'll more than happily send you 50 quid (as an expression of one's misguided judgement) in the mail if I'm wrong!

Which I won't be

She has no reason to make her grandsons bride a princess in her own right. None at all.
I agree with you 100% that she shouldn't be made a Princess in her own right, she does not deserve it. However, we cannot right this as fact as we do not know what HM will do until the wedding day.
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  #1034  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:16 PM
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I stand corrected!
How about....
TRH, The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge!
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  #1035  
Old 03-16-2011, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
I agree with you 100% that she shouldn't be made a Princess in her own right, she does not deserve it. However, we cannot right this as fact as we do not know what HM will do until the wedding day.
I've never been more certain of anything in my life, hows about that?! So yes, I've written it off
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  #1036  
Old 03-16-2011, 09:28 PM
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Isn't that a tradition though? Creating a royal spouse a prince/princess in their own right? Or is that just the rest of Europe and doesn't apply to the UK?
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  #1037  
Old 03-16-2011, 09:31 PM
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No, it certainly isn't the norm in the UK.
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  #1038  
Old 03-16-2011, 09:37 PM
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Tiny bit ot but along same lines- did Denmark, Belgium and Spain make Mary, Mathilde and Lezitia princess's in their own right? Or do they not have to do that? I know Max is a princess.....
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  #1039  
Old 03-16-2011, 09:59 PM
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Mary, Mette-Marit and Letizia were not made princesses in their own right. Mathilde and Maxima were.
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  #1040  
Old 03-16-2011, 10:05 PM
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Tiny bit ot but along same lines- did Denmark, Belgium and Spain make Mary, Mathilde and Lezitia princess's in their own right? Or do they not have to do that? I know Max is a princess.....
I have never read Letizia was made a princess in her own right. As for Mary, Alexandra wasn't, she was gifted a title of countess following her divorce but she foreifeited princess on remarriage, so I doubt Mary was. I could be wrong on both Mary and Letizia, but I could find no mention they were made in their own right.

Mathilde was made Princess of Belgium, before her marriage to Philippe.
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