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View Poll Results: What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?
Duke of Clarence 25 16.45%
Duke of Cambridge 68 44.74%
Duke of Sussex 5 3.29%
Duke of Windsor 8 5.26%
Duke of Kendall 2 1.32%
Earl of Something 8 5.26%
Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else. 10 6.58%
Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales 26 17.11%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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  #981  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsarevitch View Post
Little correction:
Catherine will not get any title. She can address herself with her husband's style and titles, like is the tradition or social custom. The title(s) are and remains William's.

Thanks for your little correction...I had assumed that everyone (or most posters) here would have known that I ment she would get (or be able to use)the titles as William acquired them.. but I should know what happens when I assume Why it is almost the same as you assuming I did not know the difference..
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  #982  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess of Durham View Post
However .... Catherine will be a bit "higher up the chain" so to speak. than Princes Michael of Kent.
Absolutely, she will follow her spouse's rank (when she is with him) and therefore be the third lady of the country. In the exceptional case that there is a formal assembly of royal ladies only, things are not so clear.

It is believed that The Princess Royal then takes precedence before The Duchess of Cornwall because she is a Princess of the blood royal and a daughter of the Sovereign. This happens rarely. Usually on larger formal royal gatherings the precedence is determined by the rank of all royals attending (1st Elizabeth & Philip, 2nd Charles & Camilla, etc.).
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  #983  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:25 PM
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I am starting to hope that a title is not granted to William and Kate when they get married because they will have little connection to it in reality, which I do not think is acceptable in this day and age. Of-course I am quite a traditionalist at heart and hate too much change too quickly and if a title is granted that's fine. It's just that I think if they became Duke and Duchess of Cambridge for instance, unless they form some kind of a connection with that city, it's going to be pointless - at least to the younger generations. I do wonder whether consideration could be given to granting a completely new Ducal title that would connect the holder with the name of the place.
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  #984  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:29 PM
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Assuming William has two sons, like Charles did, it is possible any ducal title he receives now could be given to the second son, once William is King and his older son is POW?
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  #985  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel
Assuming William has two sons, like Charles did, it is possible any ducal title he receives now could be given to the second son, once William is King and his older son is POW?
His title would merge with the crown, so it's certainly possible it could be recreated, but it wouldn't be inherited.
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  #986  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melissaadrian

How do you not understand? The press may call her Kate, but every single event, every press release, every invitation, she will be Princess William. How many non royal fans know what Princess Michael's name is? Very few. She has her own name, why should she be referred to as her husband's name. A name is part of your identity. Do people call you your husband's name? Do they say hi (insert your name) or do they say hi (insert your husband's name)? I feel sorry for you if it is the latter.
I agree that formality will undoubtedly be a large part of Catherine's life due to being part of the royal family and I hate the idea of her being addressed by her husband's first name in any segment of her life. Us commoners have the choice to never go by our husband's first name. In this role, Catherine won't have that choice unless she's allowed to formally style herself Princess Catherine, and if the precedent isn't set with her, it's unlikely to change at any point in the immediate future as she'll be the highest ranking female in this generation of royals.
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  #987  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:51 PM
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My argument would be that the right to be styled with your own first name shouldn't have to be earned and that styling her Princess Catherine of Wales should be analogous to styling her Mrs. Catherine Wales instead of Mr. William Wales. It shouldn't be a style she'd retain upon divorce, but it should be one she's allowed to use while married. I think that the Queen, while a traditionalist, is more aware than anyone that the monarchy must adapt to survive, so I don't think we can discount it entirely

Sorry... Er, "Mrs. William Wales".
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  #988  
Old 03-15-2011, 08:07 PM
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Catherine would be fourth in official precedence when William is present as he takes his place after his grandfather, his father, and his two uncles (he is the eldest son of the eldest son of The Sovereign). On her own, Catherine will be fifth (after The Queen, The Duchess of Cornwall, The Countess of Wessex and The Princess Royal).

At court, he usually is after his grandfather and father, so Catherine would be third at royal occasions when with her husband. She is likely to be sixth at court on her own (after The Queen, The Princess Royal, Princess Alexandra, The Duchess of Cornwall and The Countess of Wessex).
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  #989  
Old 03-15-2011, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
My argument would be that the right to be styled with your own first name shouldn't have to be earned and that styling her Princess Catherine of Wales should be analogous to styling her Mrs. Catherine Wales instead of Mr. William Wales. It shouldn't be a style she'd retain upon divorce, but it should be one she's allowed to use while married. I think that the Queen, while a traditionalist, is more aware than anyone that the monarchy must adapt to survive, so I don't think we can discount it entirely
But if you think about it, and it is certainly the topic of another thread....what updated thing in the last 20 to 50 years has the British monarchy done? Anne is still after her brothers, and Roman Catholics can't inheirit the throne. Royals can divorce and remarry and still remain in the line of succession that is about it.

So placing one's name is not a priority in order to get with the times. And again, Catherine hasn't done anything different or for the British monarchy as of yet that she should get different treatment. And if nothing else, the Queen doesn't like people to stand out and be different. So if Catherine is to be called Princess Catherine than she would certainly want to extend the same option to Sophie, Camilla, Brigitte, Alexandra and Marie Christine.
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  #990  
Old 03-15-2011, 08:25 PM
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Here's a link to the pdf...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
This pdf, do you have a link to that as well?
...
...which refers to The Prince William.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/pdf/Coats%20...l%20Family.pdf
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  #991  
Old 03-15-2011, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladongas

...which refers to The Prince William.

http://www.royal.gov.uk/pdf/Coats%20...l%20Family.pdf
I'm actually excited to see Autumn referred to as Mrs. Autumn Phillips instead of Mrs. Peter Phillips as she's been called in the past.
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  #992  
Old 03-15-2011, 08:38 PM
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I wouldn't read too much into that document.

As previously stated, there are a couple of inconsistencies with "The" as both William and Harry aren't children of the Sovereign. In addition, it references Sarah, Duchess of York who hasn't been a part of the Royal Family for QUITE SOME TIME.
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  #993  
Old 03-15-2011, 08:52 PM
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True, but...

...as has been remarked earlier on this interesting thread, it is part of the royal.gov website. And, if Autumn Phillips is listed, this list must be fairly up to date, regardless of how long Sarah has been gone.

Whoever put this document together was not overly concerned with accuracy, regardless of the royal.gov!
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  #994  
Old 03-15-2011, 08:56 PM
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The royal.gov site has had some errors in the past. It is after all done by human beings.

And I am basing my comments about the "the" after some people here who are pretty informative and 95% right about British Titles as well as the Burke's Peerage and Gentry.

ETA: http://www.heraldica.org/faqs/britfaq.html#p2-1 refers to William (and Henry) as Prince William of Wales, Henry of Wales, The Prince of Wales, etc.
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  #995  
Old 03-15-2011, 10:51 PM
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Prince William and Princess Catherine of Cambridge.... that is my vote!
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  #996  
Old 03-15-2011, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseroyal View Post
Prince William and Princess Catherine of Cambridge.... that is my vote!
But it wouldn't be. Kate will not be Princess Catherine of Camebridge, they are not creating a princedome.

It would either be Catherine, Duchess of Camebridge, like Sophie, Countess of Wessex, or Sarah, Duchess of York, Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall.

or

Princess William of Wales
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  #997  
Old 03-16-2011, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melissaadrian

How do you not understand? The press may call her Kate, but every single event, every press release, every invitation, she will be Princess William. How many non royal fans know what Princess Michael's name is? Very few. She has her own name, why should she be referred to as her husband's name. A name is part of your identity. Do people call you your husband's name? Do they say hi (insert your name) or do they say hi (insert your husband's name)? I feel sorry for you if it is the latter.
How do I not understand? Well I guess the notion that I lost my identity because I married and some might choose to call me by my husband's name seems kinda silly to me because I still feel like me...
And no, I'm not called by my husband name even though we've been introduced together by his name (and I was then asked my name). Kate is going into a life where formalities like that, and I agree they are antiquated, is the accepted norm. That's what they do. It's no biggie to me, you feel otherwise - let's agree to disagree!! :)
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  #998  
Old 03-16-2011, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melissaadrian View Post
...It would either be Catherine, Duchess of Camebridge, like Sophie, Countess of Wessex, or Sarah, Duchess of York, Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall.
No it wouldn't be like that - it would be HRH The Duchess of Cambridge, like HRH The Countess of Wessex or HRH The Duchess of Cornwall.

Using their name and title like Sarah, Duchess of York or Diana, Princess of Wales is to have the lady as a divorced lady.

Married ladies don't have a name - just a title officially.

Kate will lose her name either way - she will officially be HRH Princess William or HRH The Duchess of xxxx but Kate/Catherine won't officially be part of her name unless the Queen changes the traditionally way things have been done.

By officially I am referring to the way she will be referrenced in the Court Circular, official documents etc - e.g. she visits the local school and they put out a programme then they should have her as HRH The Duchess of xxxx or HRH Princess William of Wales.
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  #999  
Old 03-16-2011, 03:44 AM
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There is no obstacle for the Queen to repeat what has been done to Philip Mountbatten: create Catherine a Princess of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland in her own right and henceforth having the style HRH (The) Princess Catherine.

Also in the Netherlands spouses of titled persons are 'by social custom' styled with their husband's title(s). Also Máxima could have been automatically styled with her husband's titles. But the Netherlands had three successive Queens, their consorts were all created a Prince of the Netherlands on their own. When Máxima came on the stage, the Queen did not want to make a difference with her three male 'predecessors' and wanted to create her equally.

This was not necessary at all, as Máxima would automatically enjoy the style of her husband. But in a debate in Parliament the Government stated that they wanted to mark the special position of Máxima as a spouse to the Heir, as future Consort and as possible mother to a future Sovereign.

This very same way of thinking can be followed as well to Catherine Middleton. And as there is a precedent in creating Philip a Prince in his own right, also Catherine can be created a Princess in her own right.

This made me think about a letter Queen Wilhelmina wrote to her son-in-law (Prince Bernhard) at the eve of her daughter's accession to the throne. She wrote that many people would refer to him as 'The Prince-Consort', undoubtedly with the best of meanings. But she disliked that: Bernhard is not at all 'Prince-Consort' but The Prince of the Netherlands, a Prince of the Realm, a Prince of her House. She expressed the hope that he would do justice to that proud title.

Isn't it fascinating that there are so many thoughts behind something simple as a title?
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  #1000  
Old 03-16-2011, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I wouldn't read too much into that document.

As previously stated, there are a couple of inconsistencies with "The" as both William and Harry aren't children of the Sovereign. In addition, it references Sarah, Duchess of York who hasn't been a part of the Royal Family for QUITE SOME TIME.
That's the page about the Coat of Arms. Sarah still has her Royal Coat of Arms, even though she is divorced and thus her Coat of Arms is legally protected from illegal usage. That's why she is still listed on this page - not because she is part of the family anymore but because she still has a Coat of Arms which features Royal insignia.
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