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View Poll Results: What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?
Duke of Clarence 25 16.45%
Duke of Cambridge 68 44.74%
Duke of Sussex 5 3.29%
Duke of Windsor 8 5.26%
Duke of Kendall 2 1.32%
Earl of Something 8 5.26%
Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else. 10 6.58%
Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales 26 17.11%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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  #601  
Old 01-19-2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Regarding William and the title Duke of Edinburgh, please check this out The future of the Duke of Edinburgh title .
It seems clear to me that, although not explicitly stated as far as I know, there has been an agreement within the family that Charles, William, Harry, and Andrew would renounce their rights to the Dukedom of Edinburgh which would allow Edward to inherit the title, as announced. I can only suppose it is intended to honor Prince Philip as the title would then continue not only with Edward but carry on to his son James. Any children of James, as the great-grandchildren of a Sovereign, would not carry the style and title of Royal Highness and Prince/ss. The title would thus become a non-royal dukedom after James.
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  #602  
Old 01-19-2011, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Kate will either be Princess William of Wales or Duchess Catherine of wherever. She will recieve a "The" when William becomes the actual heir.
You are correct in all but one respect. She will never be Princess Catherine or Duchess Catherine as she is taking her husband's titles. She'll either be Princess William of Wales or The Duchess of xxx. In royal titles where a wife takes her husband's titles and styles, her first name is never used. As a divorced woman though, a woman can style herself (firstname), former title such as Diana and Sarah did.
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  #603  
Old 01-19-2011, 05:07 PM
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Oh Sheeesh!

I just realized that I have *ahem* kind of well *ahem* tried to correct one of the first and foremost people that I look to correct me when I make my many, many mistakes posting here.

Thanks Lumutqueen for teachin' me well.
  #604  
Old 01-19-2011, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi

You are correct in all but one respect. She will never be Princess Catherine or Duchess Catherine as she is taking her husband's titles. She'll either be Princess William of Wales or The Duchess of xxx. In royal titles where a wife takes her husband's titles and styles, her first name is never used. As a divorced woman though, a woman can style herself (firstname), former title such as Diana and Sarah did.
Thank you for pointing out my mistakes. I hadn't meant to write it like Duchess Catherine. I posted the reply on my Itouch and haven't had time to alter it :)

What I meant to write was Princess William or Duchess of something. Catherine will never be used in the title.

Accept my apologies; but one thing I don't know about is the The before Duchess and not Princess.
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  #605  
Old 01-19-2011, 05:40 PM
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addition to issue of peerage and title

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
As in the British peerage, the wife's title is taken from her husband's, If William is created a duke, Kate will most certainly carry the title of Duchess. And.. once they do say "I do", Kate most certainly be an HRH and as royal as they come.

The people that would refer to Diana, Princess of Wales as Princess Diana were most certainly wrong as she has never been a Princess in her own right. She was known to correct folks on this matter herself when addressed as Princess Diana. After her marriage to Charles, she was The Princess of Wales taking his titles/styles. After the divorce, she only used the divorced style Diana, Princess of Wales.
your correct on HRH once a commoner marries a royal on the words 'I do'

the issue of being a duke for Will is entirely up to sovereignty and/or Charles as to what he confers on Will - its already been pointed out that Will is grandson to Sovereignty and it is only on the death of Queen that he would inherit the title of being a Duke and as such then if he has a wife who is a commoner she would be bestowed the title of Duchess

I agree with you that diana corrected people on her title, the term Princess Diana came about in the media and was not something she created herself or other members of the royal family entertained

Lady Diana Spencer was a lady before she married and I think there is an assumption (because she was known in the media as Princess Diana) that a commoner marrying Prince Will will be granted anything

the fact of the matter is that a commoner is not entitled to title on marriage as she is not royal - HRH is automatically granted to some commoners who marry into royalty depending on where the royal is place in the family already in terms of the realm

The term commoner is a legal terms and originates in describing those who are neither soveriegn or peerage, its to do with the house or lords and in 1999 brought in the house of commons in relation to who is in being.
  #606  
Old 01-19-2011, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Accept my apologies; but one thing I don't know about is the The before Duchess and not Princess.
Never ever a need to apologize as it just means that you've taught ME very very well. That I am very cool with.

I think it would be The Duchess of XXX as she would be the current Duchess that is married to the present Duke. Hence the styling of xxx, Duchess of whatnot to denote a divorced, former wife of the Duke. Isn't it the sons and daughters are the only ones that use The? Once Charles becomes king, William would be The Prince William (and no more Wales) until Charles created him The Prince of Wales (should he choose to). Right now there are 2 Princes of Wales with the only difference being that William in heir to Charles and not Harry. Harry would then be The Prince Henry also.
  #607  
Old 01-19-2011, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristol View Post
...As far as I know, the only Princess of Wales in her own right was Charlotte, daughter of George IV.
Charlotte was never The Princess of Wales in her own right as she was not the wife of The Prince of Wales. Throughout Charlotte's life her mother held the title The Princess of Wales. Charlotte's mother died after George IV became King.

Charlotte died in 1817 while her father was still The Prince of Wales and thus was never even the heiress presumptive to the throne. George IV couldn't have given her the title The Princess of Wales simply because he was never in the position to do so as he didn't become King until 1820 - some three years after the death of his daughter.

Charlotte, like William and Harry today, was HRH Princess Charlotte of Wales because she was the daughter of The Prince of Wales.

Even if she had lived into her father's reign she would only ever have been the heiress presumptive as her father could have remarried after her mother's death and had a son (the same as the present Queen was only ever the heiress presumptive as a younger brother would always have replaced her.)
  #608  
Old 01-19-2011, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somersby Tulip View Post
Its true that Kate when they marry will become The Princess William of Wales.
No - she will be HRH Princess William of Wales - not HRH The Princess William of Wales. Only the children of the monarch can use 'The' with a capital 'T'. William is not 'The' Prince William but just Prince William.

There are currently seven people who have the right to use the word the with a capital 'T' The Prince Philip, The Prince Charles, The Princess Charles, The Prince Andrew, The Prince Edward, The Princess Edward and The Princess Anne. William will become The Prince William when Charles becomes King and Harry will then also become The Prince Harry (Henry).
Quote:
Whether William is granted a Dukedom or not does not entitle Kate to be referred to as Duchess of anything as she is neither a lady or princess in her own right and you need to be one of them already or possess a hereditary title which she does not to be referred to as Duchess. She is not royal and cannot be affored a title. Only title she can be granted is on paper and on paper only. There is a differeent between a royal title and a paper one. A royal one means she is entitled to .. and a paper one means she is entitled to nothing as she is not royal.
The wife of a Duchess, regardless of her own birth titles is automatically a Duchess. When Kate marries William she will become a Princess but, unless the Queen decides otherwise (as reportedly William has asked her to do) she will become Princess William. If William is created Duke of Hogwarts (I use this to avoid making realistic suggestions) then Kate will be Duchess of Hogwarts - the same as Sophie became Countess of Wessex when she married Edward and Sarah become Duchess of York when she married Andrew.
Quote:
People refer to Lady Diana Spencer as Princess Diana as they saw her as a princess. It was not a title given to her. She was a lady.
She was a princess on her marriage but she was HRH The Princess Charles (along with the feminine of his other titles) - just as Camilla is HRH The Princess Charles etc now. People called her Princess Diana because she was using the title The Princess of Wales and they had correctly called her Lady Diana before the wedding so simply changed the Lady to Princess after the wedding not realising that that was wrong.
  #609  
Old 01-19-2011, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiron View Post
It seems clear to me that, although not explicitly stated as far as I know, there has been an agreement within the family that Charles, William, Harry, and Andrew would renounce their rights to the Dukedom of Edinburgh which would allow Edward to inherit the title, as announced. I can only suppose it is intended to honor Prince Philip as the title would then continue not only with Edward but carry on to his son James. Any children of James, as the great-grandchildren of a Sovereign, would not carry the style and title of Royal Highness and Prince/ss. The title would thus become a non-royal dukedom after James.

The agreement is that when the title merges with the Crown the title will be recreated for Edward and nothing else.

There is no intention for Edward to inherit all the titles directly, unless that happens in the normal course of events.

Certainly, if Edward gets the Edinburgh title, it will pass to James and through James' descendents.

If the title merges with the Crown it has to be recreated but if it works out that it is inherited say by Harry then it will pass through his male line descendents and then through Edward's descendents (ignoring Andrew who has no sons at the moment).
  #610  
Old 01-19-2011, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somersby Tulip View Post
...it is only on the death of Queen that [William] would inherit the title of being a Duke and as such then if he has a wife who is a commoner she would be bestowed the title of Duchess.
Somersby Tulip, where are you getting your information? It seems clear the if PW is granted a Dukedom, for example, upon marriage, Kate would definitely become a Duchess. Sarah was a commoner as well, but she became the Duchess of York when she married PA.
  #611  
Old 01-19-2011, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gudgeon View Post
Somersby Tulip, where are you getting your information? It seems clear the if PW is granted a Dukedom, for example, upon marriage, Kate would definitely become a Duchess. Sarah was a commoner as well, but she became the Duchess of York when she married PA.
To clarify just a tad bit more...

It has been in the past that the Queen would create her sons (and now her grandson) a Dukedom or Earldom at the time of their marriage. It has no bearing whatever what the class status of the bride is before marriage. She could be upper middle class like Kate or perhaps be the Queen of the country of Hogwarts (using Lumut's example). After they say "I do" and the registry is signed, the bride would be HRH The Duchess (or Countess if its an Earldom) of Narnia (the Queen gives the groom the dukedom of Narnia). All British titles are taken from the titles and styles of the husband. As William is now Prince William of Wales, should he NOT be given a dukedom or earldom upon his marriage, Kate would be HRH Princess William of Wales. For now its all male orientated. Diana did not become Lady Diana until her father inherited the title Earl Spencer and Allthorp.
  #612  
Old 01-19-2011, 08:44 PM
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My bet: duke and duchess of Buckingham (why not)
  #613  
Old 01-19-2011, 10:21 PM
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According to the royal expert quiz I just read on a blog King Henry VIII's daughter Princess Mary was sometimes refered to ad Princess of Wales before she was declared a 'bastard' and her parents marriage annualed- so....that's interesting

http://royalexpert.blogspot.com/2011...t-answers.html
  #614  
Old 01-19-2011, 10:58 PM
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Catherine will automatically become "HRH Princess William" with her marriage to a male-line grandson of The Sovereign. This is true whether she is a commoner or a princess in her own right.

If William is created a Peer on his wedding day, his wife will automatically assume the style of a wife of a Peer, but with the rank of a Princess as HRH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by texankitcat View Post
I understand that now. As Prince Phillip is already 90, it is reasonable to expect he won't live beyond 10 more years. If the Queen grants William a dukedom on his wedding day, then why would William assume the Duke of Edniburgh title when his grandfather passes? It makes sense to me that she would grant it to Edward, if it has been decided that he will be granted that title. Of course. I am probably missing something again.
William would only become The Duke of Edinburgh if his father and grandfather predeceased The Queen. Otherwise, Charles would add his father's peerages to his existing titles upon his death as Philip's eldest son. Once Charles becomes King, or William became King if his father had predeceased The Queen, the Edinburgh title would merge with the Crown and be available to be re-created for Prince Edward.
  #615  
Old 01-19-2011, 11:34 PM
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It has already been announced upon Phillips death his son Prince Edward will become Duke of Edinburgh and I doubt Charles would change that if he was King before Phillip died, I think he'd still honor that, even though I suppose he wouldn't have too.....
  #616  
Old 01-20-2011, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
It has already been announced upon Phillips death his son Prince Edward will become Duke of Edinburgh and I doubt Charles would change that if he was King before Phillip died, I think he'd still honor that, even though I suppose he wouldn't have too.....
It was announced Edward would become The Duke of Edinburgh upon the death of his parents, not Philip. Charles, or William if his father died before becoming King, will inherit Philip's peerages in due course as his male heirs of the body.

Once Charles is King, all of his titles merge with the Crown (the Sovereign cannot be a Peer) and Edinburgh is available to be recreated as a Dukedom for Prince Edward.
  #617  
Old 01-20-2011, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
It has already been announced upon Phillips death his son Prince Edward will become Duke of Edinburgh and I doubt Charles would change that if he was King before Phillip died, I think he'd still honor that, even though I suppose he wouldn't have too.....
On Philip's death Charles will become Duke of Edinburgh as the LPs creating Philip Duke of Edinburgh have the standard inheritance provision - heirs male of the body. The announcement in 1999 makes it clear that Edward can only get Edinburgh on the death of both his parents and when the title has merged with the Crown. He won't get it automatically on Philp's death.

Consequently for Edward to become Duke of Edinburgh he will have to wait for both his parents to die so that the title merges with the crown and is available for regrant.

There are a number of scenarios for this title including Edward directly inheriting and for the title not merging with the crown and thus not being available for Edward at all.


If you read this thread you will see the ways the title go:
The future of the Duke of Edinburgh title
  #618  
Old 01-20-2011, 01:20 PM
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Thumbs up New Title for Prince William

If we are to believe that Prince William & Kate will eventually live at Harewood Park near Hereford, they could be created Duke & Duchess or Earl & Countess of Hereford as these titles are free.

As they met at St Andrews they may go for a Scottish title - Ross is free, so maybe they could combine the two ie

TRH The Earl & Countess of Hereford & Ross.

Technically an Earl is an heir to a Dukedom, & as he will inherit the dukedom of Cornwall when his fater becomes King this might be a nice idea.
  #619  
Old 01-20-2011, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl of Kinnerton View Post
If we are to believe that Prince William & Kate will eventually live at Harewood Park near Hereford, they could be created Duke & Duchess or Earl & Countess of Hereford as these titles are free.

As they met at St Andrews they may go for a Scottish title - Ross is free, so maybe they could combine the two ie

TRH The Earl & Countess of Hereford & Ross.

Technically an Earl is an heir to a Dukedom, & as he will inherit the dukedom of Cornwall when his fater becomes King this might be a nice idea.

Earl's aren't always heirs to Dukedoms. They are sometimes the senior title held by that person e.g. Earl Spencer isn't the heir to a Dukedom.
  #620  
Old 01-20-2011, 05:26 PM
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Then who is the Duke of Earl?

(for those too young to recognize this reference, I refer you to this linK:
Myspace Player )
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