Prince William and Catherine Middleton Possible Titles

[Zonk]

Let's get back on topic which is a Title for William, Catherine and Family.

 

[rossop7]

Wasn't entirely sure where to ask this but it's basically a title question so figured this thread was best. In another thread there was a bit of a discussion about William being a Knight of the Garter, once they are married will Kate gain this title through being his wife? I know the Royal Family can be made supernumerary members of the Order which don't count towards the number limit of Knights but wasn't sure whether this was done automatically or whether it included those that married into the Royal Family or if it only involved those born of the RF. I mean basically will Kate be a member of the Order & have to wear the full outfit & join William & the other knights at the procession each year just through marriage to William as he already is a Knight of the Order or is this something she will never receive? (unless later chosen to be a member in her own right at some point)

 

[Sister Morphine]

No, I don't believe so. Knight of the Garter isn't like other Knighthoods where one's wife will be known as Lady _____ . That's an honor that is bestowed upon someone by the sovereign, not something that is inherited or passed on through marriage.

It's possible that when Charles is King, he could make Catherine a Lady of the Garter, or William might do it when he's King. We don't know. I do think that Catherine will be made one before she becomes Queen, though.

 

[rossop7]

No, I don't believe so. Knight of the Garter isn't like other Knighthoods where one's wife will be known as Lady _____ . That's an honor that is bestowed upon someone by the sovereign, not something that is inherited or passed on through marriage.

It's possible that when Charles is King, he could make Catherine a Lady of the Garter, or William might do it when he's King. We don't know. I do think that Catherine will be made one before she becomes Queen, though.

I thought that would be the case but then I know Prince Phillip is a member & I wasn't sure whether he'd become a member in his own right & had been bestowed the honour or if he'd just "got" it through marriage to the Queen.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Philip was made a KG in his own right by King George VI the day after George VI made Elizabeth one shortly before they married.

The wife of a KG is still Lady xxx because her husband is Sir yyy but the wives don't join the parade or wear the regalia of the order - that is restricted to the holders only.

Based on past experience, Kate will probably have to wait until she is Queen to be a Lady Knight of the Garter. Queen Alexandra was the first Lady Knight of the Garter in over 400 years when Edward VII created her that in 1901 - after she became Queen. George V made Queen Mary a Lady Knight in 1910 - again after the accession and in 1936 Queen Elizabethe Queen Mother also gained that distinction. Based on that precedence I would expect Charles to make Camilla a KG shortly after his accession and William to do so for Kate when he becomes King.

 

[bertie5252003]

You don't think they would be just Prince and Princess William?? I am inclined to think they may favour that for a time.

 

[Kataryn]

You don't think they would be just Prince and Princess William?? I am inclined to think they may favour that for a time.

So they could be William and Catherine Mountbatten-Windsor in private (as "Princess William" could use that as her name when she doesn't want to use any title or style) and TRH Prince and Princess William of Wales in public. Nice thought. I can even imagine that for them Mr. and Mrs. Mountbatten-Windsor would be enough... no, that is Sir William (K.G.) and Lady Mountbatten-Windsor....

 

[Sister Morphine]

Seeing as William is a Prince of the Realm, wouldn't that take precedence style-wise, over that of being a Knight of the Garter? Meaning, he wouldn't be known as "Sir William" because that's a lower rank than being a prince of Wales.

I mean, he's still a knight, and Catherine as the wife of a knight would be a Lady, but she wouldn't be known as Lady Mountbatten-Windsor, because that's lower than her rank by marriage. She'll be Catherine in private and Princess William or The Duchess/Countess of X in public.

 

[Saragli]

Your right SisterM, the higher title always takes precedence. So whilst Catherine will technically be Lady M-W, you would call her by her highest title which will probably be HRH Princess William, Duchess of Somewhere.

 

[cmkrcwi]

No, if William receives a dukedom, she will be HRH The Duchess of whatever. She will no longer be titled Princess William because William will no longer be titled Prince William of Wales. He'll still be named William and he will still be a Prince of the United Kingdom but his title will be Duke of whatever.

 

[Charlotte_Aster]

No, if William receives a dukedom, she will be HRH The Duchess of whatever. She will no longer be titled Princess William because William will no longer be titled Prince William of Wales. He'll still be named William and he will still be a Prince of the United Kingdom but his title will be Duke of whatever.

Yes, she would be her full title would be HRH Princess William of Wales, Duchess of X.
But she would be refered to as HRH Duchess of X.
For example countess of wessex's full title is:Her Royal Highness The Princess Edward Antony Richard Louis, Countess of Wessex, Viscountess Severn
Sophie, Countess of Wessex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Iluvbertie]

William will not cease being Prince William if he gets a Dukedom. As a result Catherine will also take the feminine of that title - Princess William.
Just because a person has a new title doesn't mean that they lose their former title - they keep both.

William will be a Prince until he becomes King and so his wife will be Princess William until that time (unless the Queen agrees to allow her formally to be called Princess Catherine - which I think is what will happen actually.)

Then when William becomes Duke of Cornwall, Catherine will become Duke of Cornwall but they will still be Prince William and Princess Catherine (William - whichever).

 

[texankitcat]

...William will be a Prince until he becomes King and so his wife will be Princess William until that time (unless the Queen agrees to allow her formally to be called Princess Catherine - which I think is what will happen actually.)

Really? I am surprised that you think this is a possibility. What changed your mind on the Queen considering this title for Catherine?

 

[Skippy]

Really? I am surprised that you think this is a possibility. What changed your mind on the Queen considering this title for Catherine?

Count me in on that surprise.

 

[muriel]

I know the traditionalists may not agree, but it would make a lot of sense for Catherine to be styled at Princess Catherine. I am not suggesting that she be created a Princess in her own right, but merely reflect in her style what she will no doubt be referred to.

 

[csw]

I rather hope she is Princess William for a while. The name is just retro enough to be cool

 

[Lumutqueen]

I hope she isn't allowed to become a Princess in her own right, not yet, maybe when Charles becomes King.
Dukedom of Cambridge please.

 

[Sister Morphine]

While it certainly would be nice for the Queen to make Catherine a princess in her own right, so she's entitled to be called Princess Catherine of Wales, there isn't precedence for that in the BRF like there is in other royal families. Charles strikes me as a more modern person than his mother, so if it were to ever happen, it would more than likely happen during his reign, so I agree with that point.

 

[Royal Fan]

Duke and Duchess of Hampshire

 

[Sister Morphine]

There is no Duke of Hampshire to give them, there is a Lord Lieutenant of Hampshire, but it's currently in use.

I think Cambridge is the odds on favorite at this point.

 

[Royal Fan]

Yes but cant she create one

 

[Sister Morphine]

Well I suppose she could create whatever the heck she wanted, seeing as it's her prerogative. I just think it's highly unlikely. It seems more feasible to take a dukedom that exists but is extant, and just make a new creation of it. There hasn't been a Duke of Cambridge since 1904.

 

[ladongas]

William Wales?

I seem to remember that William is known as William Wales in his military ...er...group. Why would he be called that if he is actually Mountbatten-Windsor? And would that make Catherine, "Catherine Wales"?

 

[Sister Morphine]

Wales is merely his territorial designation, just like Andrew's daughters use "York" for a surname if they need one. Catherine would not be "Catherine Wales" as Wales is not a legal surname, at least for William it isn't (maybe someone out there does have the last name Wales!).

Some info on the Mountbatten-Windsor surname:

The Order specifically applies the surname to those descendants of the Queen not holding Royal styles and titles but it has been applied to or informally used by members of the Royal Family descended from Queen Elizabeth II as their surname, as shown at the marriages of the Duke of York and the Princess Royal, both having been registered with Mountbatten-Windsor in their entries in the marriage registers.

On William's banns of marriage, he may list Mountbatten-Windsor as his surname the same as his aunt, uncle, and father did, but it's not his official surname, as he doesn't have one.

 

[Lenora]

What about the Duke and Duchess Dorset?

 

[Sister Morphine]

Dorset is available -- it's been out of use since 1845.

 

[HRHHermione]

I agree with Iluvbertie- I actually do think there's a chance the Queen will allow Catherine to be styled "Princess Catherine".

It's true there's no precedent for it as there is for other royal families, but I think calling her "Princess William" would strike most people as terribly old fashioned- anachronistic in the extreme. As the monarchy has shown inclinations towards modernization for some time now, this strikes me as a good opportunity to demonstrate that they're moving forward.

I'd like to see it happen, personally.

 

[Zonk]

Calling Catherine Princes Catherine might be modern but really...why change what already works?

Already there is a Princess Charles, a Princess Edward, Princess Richard...they are just called by other names....Duchess of Cornwall, Countess of Wessex and Duchess of Gloucester.

I think Catherine will be Duchess of Whatever, Princess William.

 

[HRHHermione]

See, I would actually say that it doesn't work. In most of the rest of the world, women have some say in whether or not they take their husband's name or keep their own. And very few women choose to be called say, Mrs. John Smith. They're far more likely to go by " Jane Smith" if they take their husband's last name at all.

If it's true that Prince William would prefer to not take a ducal title (and we don't know if it is or not), I'd much rather see Catherine known as Princess Catherine than Princess William and I think the average person would also find Princess William a very off putting way to address her.

But we'll see- it'll be very interesting to see what title she is to be known by, no matter what that title ends up being!

 

[Zonk]

But Catherine isn't marrying John Smith, she is marrying into a system has a thousand plus years of history.
And most people won't have to call her Princess Catherine, she will "Mam (or whatever), Your Royal Higness or Duchess"
But we shall see what happens on the 29th.