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View Poll Results: What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?
Duke of Clarence 25 16.45%
Duke of Cambridge 68 44.74%
Duke of Sussex 5 3.29%
Duke of Windsor 8 5.26%
Duke of Kendall 2 1.32%
Earl of Something 8 5.26%
Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else. 10 6.58%
Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales 26 17.11%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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  #481  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
That's actually a wooly mammoth. Not a mammooth.
Ha! You're totally right. I thought it looked strange, but couldn't put my finger on why. It's not exactly a word I spell everyday...

Why is all the focus on Cambridge? I know there are several that have been mentioned, but that one most of all. Is it a better one? Is there a hierarchy of which titles are "preferred"? Sorry if I'm behind. I guess I need to take a Peerage 101 class. (Is Peerage even the right word?)
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  #482  
Old 12-23-2010, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
That's actually a wooly mammoth. Not a mammooth.
Ahh, sorry, I just googled and took the photo I know as a mammoth. But itīs the pronounciation that is important here - not the exact animal :)

BTW, what is the right spelling? Mammooth or mammoth?
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  #483  
Old 12-23-2010, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyNemesis View Post
Well here's just a thought, why couldn't William just let his oldest son use whatever title he is given at marriage as a courtesy title when Charles becomes King and William becomes
Duke of Cornwall....provided of course that he and Kate have a son at that time.

The reason why nobles' sons are allowed to use courtesy titles is because they will inherit the substantive titles one day. So Viscount Severn will inherit the Earldom of Wessex. Had he been using the HRH Prince title he wouldn't be known as Viscount Severn but HRH Prince James.

If Kate and William have a son that son will be born HRH Prince xxxxx of yyyy and unless William dies before the Queen the son wouldn't inherit that title - ever as the title would merge with the Crown when William became king.
  #484  
Old 12-23-2010, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The reason why nobles' sons are allowed to use courtesy titles is because they will inherit the substantive titles one day. So Viscount Severn will inherit the Earldom of Wessex. Had he been using the HRH Prince title he wouldn't be known as Viscount Severn but HRH Prince James.

I never liked that title - Earl of Wessex- because it was used in the movie Shakespeare In Love.
So it seems somehow bogus, not like a real title.
  #485  
Old 12-23-2010, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FasterB View Post
Ahh, sorry, I just googled and took the photo I know as a mammoth. But itīs the pronounciation that is important here - not the exact animal :)

BTW, what is the right spelling? Mammooth or mammoth?
Mammoth is the correct spelling.

And it made me think of that, too!
  #486  
Old 12-23-2010, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
It would be no more ducal titles than George V had due to being in the same position - eldest surviving son of the Prince of Wales.

The PoW title will be discussed at the appropriate time and it maybe that the Welsh Assembly and Chief Minister advise either for or against it but Charles, I am sure, will seek their advice and act accordingly.
Not trying to venture off topic but did The Queen consult the Welsh Assembly when she made Prince Charles, Prince of Wales? It could also be that William could decide against it.

As for the many ducal titles....I feel like while it worked for the time period George V was in I am not certain it would work for now. One title certainly conveys the royal status quite nicely.
  #487  
Old 12-23-2010, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I never liked that title - Earl of Wessex- because it was used in the movie Shakespeare In Love.
So it seems somehow bogus, not like a real title.
I read somewhere (on here, I think) that Prince Edward was such a fan of that movie that he requested that particular title. It seems a little far-fetched, or maybe just shallow, that he would base such a huge thing on a movie.
  #488  
Old 12-23-2010, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
Not trying to venture off topic but did The Queen consult the Welsh Assembly when she made Prince Charles, Prince of Wales? It could also be that William could decide against it.

As for the many ducal titles....I feel like while it worked for the time period George V was in I am not certain it would work for now. One title certainly conveys the royal status quite nicely.

There was no Welsh Assembly in 1958 when the Queen created Charles Prince of Wales so she wouldn't have had anyone to consult. She would have consulted the British PM about the timing as well as discussed it within her family. Many ideas we take for granted today simply didn't exist 50 years ago.

The independence movement is very small but vocal - they made a lot of noise at Charles' investiture in 1969 - but their support isn't widespread but is growing a little bit.

By the time Charles becomes King the situation may have changed and it could be stronger. I
  #489  
Old 12-24-2010, 01:08 AM
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It is highly likely The Queen and her grandfather, George V, both consulted with their Prime Ministers before creating a new Prince of Wales. The sensitivity of the matter to the Welsh has been a factor for many years and is considered a political question, which requires the Crown to consult the Government prior to acting.
  #490  
Old 12-24-2010, 08:41 AM
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Ah yes branchg, I had forgotten about that, but what about a 2nd son, could he use the title as a courtesy title since a younger son wouldn't be a Prince? That way he would at least have a title to use.
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  #491  
Old 12-24-2010, 11:29 AM
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Ah yes branchg, I had forgotten about that, but what about a 2nd son, could he use the title as a courtesy title since a younger son wouldn't be a Prince? That way he would at least have a title to use.
No, because the eldest son is still the heir to his father's peerages, regardless of his style as HRH Prince of the UK. It is unnecessary for him to use the style of the heir to a Peerage as being a Prince of the UK in his own right takes precedence.
  #492  
Old 12-24-2010, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyNemesis View Post
Ah yes branchg, I had forgotten about that, but what about a 2nd son, could he use the title as a courtesy title since a younger son wouldn't be a Prince? That way he would at least have a title to use.

A younger son of William's born in the present reign would have the title of Lord xxxx of yyyy. Any daughters would be Lady xxxx of yyyy. When Charles becomes King they would automatically become HRH Prince/ss xxxx of yyyy (+ Cornwall and then of Wales probably). Finally they will become HRH The Prince/ss xxxxx of the United Kingdom when William becomes King and sons would presumably get their own dukedoms in time.
  #493  
Old 12-24-2010, 07:16 PM
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Per the 1917 Letters Patent, William's younger children would be "Lord/Lady X Windsor" as the great-grandchildren of The Queen in the male-line.

Once his father becomes King, they would take their style and rank of "HRH Prince/Princess X of Cornwall and X" (if William is indeed granted a dukedom by his grandmother, otherwise just "of Cornwall").
  #494  
Old 12-24-2010, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Per the 1917 Letters Patent, William's younger children would be "Lord/Lady X Windsor" as the great-grandchildren of The Queen in the male-line.

Once his father becomes King, they would take their style and rank of "HRH Prince/Princess X of Cornwall and X" (if William is indeed granted a dukedom by his grandmother, otherwise just "of Cornwall").

I should have been clearer and indicated that Cornwall would come before the xxxx rather than implying otherwise.

Thanks for the heads up.
  #495  
Old 12-24-2010, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
There was no Welsh Assembly in 1958 when the Queen created Charles Prince of Wales so she wouldn't have had anyone to consult. She would have consulted the British PM about the timing as well as discussed it within her family. Many ideas we take for granted today simply didn't exist 50 years ago.

The independence movement is very small but vocal - they made a lot of noise at Charles' investiture in 1969 - but their support isn't widespread but is growing a little bit.

By the time Charles becomes King the situation may have changed and it could be stronger. I
Thanks for the information. I would think that the Welsh Public will also consider how William feels about Wales. For example: does he speak the welsh language or does he support Welsh causes? Simply living there is not enough in my opinion for them to award him the title.
  #496  
Old 12-24-2010, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
Thanks for the information. I would think that the Welsh Public will also consider how William feels about Wales. For example: does he speak the welsh language or does he support Welsh causes? Simply living there is not enough in my opinion for them to award him the title.

I don't think how William feels about it will be consisdered at all particularly as there is no guarantee about how long he might hold the title - it could be a day or 20 years and then he has to look way beyond Wales to the rest of the UK.
  #497  
Old 12-24-2010, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I don't think how William feels about it will be consisdered at all particularly as there is no guarantee about how long he might hold the title - it could be a day or 20 years and then he has to look way beyond Wales to the rest of the UK.
That could be the case but I think that if your going to award someone a title then they should at least represent Welsh causes and speak the language. After all it is required in school in Wales to speak Welsh. The least their prince could do is speak it.

By the way I don't just feel this way about William. As both he and Harry carry the title, even if their father is the senior one, they should put in the effort in learning it.
  #498  
Old 12-24-2010, 08:57 PM
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That could be the case but I think that if your going to award someone a title then they should at least represent Welsh causes and speak the language. After all it is required in school in Wales to speak Welsh. The least their prince could do is speak it.

By the way I don't just feel this way about William. As both he and Harry carry the title, even if their father is the senior one, they should put in the effort in learning it.

The title isn't 'awarded'. It is created. To me 'awarded' implies being earnt and the Prince of Wales title is simply created for someone based on their birth.

I don't know of any Prince of Wales in History that has learnt the language although Charles can say a few words in Welsh. I suppose because if they learnt Welsh they should learn Scottish Gaelic as well as they will be Duke of Rothesay - or heir apparent to the throne of Scotland.
  #499  
Old 12-24-2010, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The title isn't 'awarded'. It is created. To me 'awarded' implies being earnt and the Prince of Wales title is simply created for someone based on their birth.

I don't know of any Prince of Wales in History that has learnt the language although Charles can say a few words in Welsh. I suppose because if they learnt Welsh they should learn Scottish Gaelic as well as they will be Duke of Rothesay - or heir apparent to the throne of Scotland.

My apologies, I agree that the title is created, definately not awarded.

As for the Scottish Gaelic, I think that would be great.
  #500  
Old 12-25-2010, 12:03 AM
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Thanks for the information. I would think that the Welsh Public will also consider how William feels about Wales. For example: does he speak the welsh language or does he support Welsh causes? Simply living there is not enough in my opinion for them to award him the title.
The title would be created for the male heir to the throne unless the Prime Minister advised The Sovereign not to do so. This is highly unlikely as it would imply a weakening of the union between Scotland, England and Wales as Great Britain.

More likely, the Prime Minister's advice would be limited to the timing (i.e. a general election or Welsh Assembly election) so to ensure the creation is not viewed as the Crown influencing political considerations.
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