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View Poll Results: What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?
Duke of Clarence 25 16.45%
Duke of Cambridge 68 44.74%
Duke of Sussex 5 3.29%
Duke of Windsor 8 5.26%
Duke of Kendall 2 1.32%
Earl of Something 8 5.26%
Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else. 10 6.58%
Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales 26 17.11%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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  #381  
Old 12-12-2010, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
These are modern times and the Queen can bestow Princess Catherine and I hope she does just as Princess Diana was bestowed
But Princess Diana never made a Princess in her own right. That is a title that the media and we (general public) bestowed upon her. Incorrectly, one might add.
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  #382  
Old 12-12-2010, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
These are modern times and the Queen can bestow Princess Catherine and I hope she does just as Princess Diana was bestowed

Diana was never Princess Diana in her own right - and she would correct anyone who referred to her as such.

She had the same titles that Camilla has now - HRH The Princess Charles, The Princess of Wales, The Countess of Chester, The Duchess of Cornwall, The Duchess of Rothesay etc.

Just as we don't refer to Princess Camilla is was wrong, and still is wrong, to refer to Princess Diana - a title she never held as she wasn't born a princess.
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  #383  
Old 12-12-2010, 09:33 PM
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But if the Queen wanted to, not saying she will, couldn't she issue an LP for Catherine to become a princess without doing so for Princess Michael or the Duchess of Kent- if the right to issue titles/styles is solely the Querns could she not decide ok in this particular case it's Princess Catherine but only her not all wives of sovereigns (or former sovereigns) grandsons
  #384  
Old 12-12-2010, 09:40 PM
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Frankly, I' taking this whole thing with a grain of salt. There have been plenty of anonymous palace sources who have claimed things, only for us to find out the real story was something else.

Don't forget that Prince Philip got a dukedom on his marriage in 1947 but didn't become a prince until 1957. If William seriously wants a title of princess for his wife, I suspect Philip will take him aside and talk some sense into him.
  #385  
Old 12-12-2010, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
But if the Queen wanted to, not saying she will, couldn't she issue an LP for Catherine to become a princess without doing so for Princess Michael or the Duchess of Kent- if the right to issue titles/styles is solely the Querns could she not decide ok in this particular case it's Princess Catherine but only her not all wives of sovereigns (or former sovereigns) grandsons
But the question is why? Why would the Queen issue LP's for the wife of her grandson (before she has even done anything) when many women before her (aunts, cousins in law, daughters in law) have worked very hard during their lifetimes for the BRF. And Kate gets a title out of the box. Makes no sense IMO.

Frankly, I don't think it matters to Kate on whether or not she is in a Princess in her own right or HRH Duchess of Whatever. And I also agree, that this bit of "news" should be taken with a grain of salt.
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  #386  
Old 12-12-2010, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
It's safe to assume that if HM creates new LPs to make Catherine a Princess, she would have to (to be fair) create Camilla, Sophie, Birgitte, Katherine and Marie-Christine of Kent Princess' in their own right as well..
If it is true I think that this will open a can of worms the family might live to regret. From the controversy as to why Diana was never a princess in her own right to the huge number of women that will have that title in the family. To say nothing of the fact that their wedding is supposed to be low-key due to the economic recession. The title of princess isn't low-key. One must also remember the current push for Beatrice and Eugenie to not be princesses and they were born royal.

I also agree with an earlier poster who mentioned that if this story is true then what does it say about William besides that he is not low-key
  #387  
Old 12-12-2010, 10:34 PM
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Calling them by their husband's name is just tradition. It could be changed. The Queen wouldn't need to create them princessess in their own right. I don't believe Mary, Marie or Alexandra were created princesses in their own right The UK could do the same thing. It's more modern. Very few younger women would refer to themselves as Mrs. John Smith today.

In reality, it would only change how we refer to Princess Michael. The rest would remain The Duchess of... etc.
  #388  
Old 12-12-2010, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thena View Post
Frankly, I' taking this whole thing with a grain of salt. There have been plenty of anonymous palace sources who have claimed things, only for us to find out the real story was something else.

Don't forget that Prince Philip got a dukedom on his marriage in 1947 but didn't become a prince until 1957. If William seriously wants a title of princess for his wife, I suspect Philip will take him aside and talk some sense into him.
Philip was born a Prince of Greece officially by birth and was demoted in rank when he married. I haven't got a clue how anyone can explain that one away.Prince Philip was always a Prince it was just a manner of putting him in his place I think.And this thing with Catherine versus Princess Michael; Princess Michael was divorced and Catherine has nothing in her closet and it begins to sound like where are we going to break the egg in Gulliver's Travels and Lilliput.I suspect Philip will not take him aside at all.
  #389  
Old 12-12-2010, 11:03 PM
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A technical question: If HM did not have to issue LPs for Lady Louise or Viscount Severn NOT to be called Princess or Prince, rather just announce that "it was decided....", why could she not issue a similar decision regarding Catherine? Or could she? As I understand it, all titles are at her discretion -- that her word is all it takes. Please advise.
  #390  
Old 12-12-2010, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by windsorgirl View Post
A technical question: If HM did not have to issue LPs for Lady Louise or Viscount Severn NOT to be called Princess or Prince, rather just announce that "it was decided....", why could she not issue a similar decision regarding Catherine? Or could she? As I understand it, all titles are at her discretion -- that her word is all it takes. Please advise.
The Queen does not need to issue letters patent allowing Catherine to use the style of "Princess Catherine". As she did with Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, she can simply allow it, since they are Princesses of the UK automatically with marriage.

I do not believe there will be a change in precedent with William's wife. Either she is known as Princess William of Wales or The Duchess/Countess of X with marriage.
  #391  
Old 12-12-2010, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk

But the question is why? Why would the Queen issue LP's for the wife of her grandson (before she has even done anything) when many women before her (aunts, cousins in law, daughters in law) have worked very hard during their lifetimes for the BRF. And Kate gets a title out of the box. Makes no sense IMO.

Frankly, I don't think it matters to Kate on whether or not she is in a Princess in her own right or HRH Duchess of Whatever. And I also agree, that this bit of "news" should be taken with a grain of salt.
You're right no reason to actually do so I just wanted to confirm she could for my own knowledge- thank you! Also other posters who said the Queen could just decide she to be known as Princess Catherine thank you! Of course who knows if that article is correct and William even asked this, guess we will know on April 29th :)
  #392  
Old 12-13-2010, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
But Princess Diana never made a Princess in her own right. That is a title that the media and we (general public) bestowed upon her. Incorrectly, one might add.
Diana was a bit of a unique situation, as she became the mother of the two spares to the throne and was granted her own rights with the official separation of The Wales. She also retained her precedence and status.

Though she was never officially "Princess Diana", the Palace often referred to her as such, implying The Queen accepted the style without objection for the mother of a future King. Once the divorce was final, she lost her rank of HRH, but was still referred to by the Palace as "The Princess", even though she was no longer a Princess of the UK.
  #393  
Old 12-13-2010, 01:10 AM
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Being known as Princess Catherine isn't the same as being Princess Catherine - afterall HRH The Princess of Wales was often referred to as Princess Diana even though she wasn't but she was never referred to as Princess Diana in the Court Circular.
  #394  
Old 12-13-2010, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Camilla is a princess now - HRH The Princess Charles.
Sophie is also a princess - HRH The Princess Edward.
Camilla is not now, nor has she ever been "The Princess Charles." Similarly, Sophie is not now, nor has she ever been "The Princess Edward." They are HRH The Duchess of Cornwall and HRH The Countess of Wessex respectively. A British royal bride takes her husband's title and style; she does not take his name. The reason why Kate would be HRH Princess William of Wales is because that is William's title. If the Queen were to disregard his alleged request and make him say The Duke of Cambridge, Kate would be The Duchess of Cambridge because again, that would be William's title.
  #395  
Old 12-13-2010, 01:17 AM
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They are both. With marriage to a son of The Sovereign, both Camilla and Sophie became HRH Princesses of the UK. Because their husbands also are Royal Peers, they take their style and title as the wives of Peers, but with royal rank as HRH.
  #396  
Old 12-13-2010, 02:27 AM
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Gosh I do hope April 29th comes round quick enough so we can find out what the title will or will not be!!
Given the fact that A) Camilla asked to be styled or known as the Duchess of Cornwall thus ignoring the tradition and convention of using her husband's main title B) Prince Edward asked for the style and title of an ancient earldom rather than a dukedom, thus ignoring the usual convention/tradition for the son of a monarch C) Princess Anne asked for no title to be given to her children, thus ignoring the usual convention for grandchildren of a monarch, It does make me wonder whether Prince William is well within his rights to firstly refuse another title and then request that although Katherine will have the style and title of Princess William he and she would prefer it if she could be allowed to be known as Princess Katherine without LPs being issued and without becoming a princess in her own right? Or maybe I should just start saying Princess William over and again just to get used to it?!
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  #397  
Old 12-13-2010, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cmkrcwi View Post
Camilla is not now, nor has she ever been "The Princess Charles." Similarly, Sophie is not now, nor has she ever been "The Princess Edward." They are HRH The Duchess of Cornwall and HRH The Countess of Wessex respectively. A British royal bride takes her husband's title and style; she does not take his name. The reason why Kate would be HRH Princess William of Wales is because that is William's title. If the Queen were to disregard his alleged request and make him say The Duke of Cambridge, Kate would be The Duchess of Cambridge because again, that would be William's title.

Camilla is most certainly The Princess Charles. As he has other titles she uses those but she is also The Princess Charles. Sophie is also HRH The Princess Edward.

The obvious way to look at this is ask yourself what would Camilla be known as if Charles had no other titles and the simple answer is The Princess Charles. If the Queen hadn't created Edward an Earl on his wedding day Sophie would be known as The Princess Edward.

That is the same with the Duchesses of Gloucester and Kent. As their husbands have other titles they don't use the Prince husband's name but they most certainly have that title.

Princess Micheal of Kent uses that style because her husband has no other title.
  #398  
Old 12-13-2010, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by cmkrcwi View Post
Camilla is not now, nor has she ever been "The Princess Charles." Similarly, Sophie is not now, nor has she ever been "The Princess Edward." They are HRH The Duchess of Cornwall and HRH The Countess of Wessex respectively. A British royal bride takes her husband's title and style; she does not take his name. The reason why Kate would be HRH Princess William of Wales is because that is William's title. If the Queen were to disregard his alleged request and make him say The Duke of Cambridge, Kate would be The Duchess of Cambridge because again, that would be William's title.
Camilla's full style and designations are...

Her Royal Highness The Princess Charles Philip Arthur George, Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness of Renfrew, Lady of the Isles, Princess of Scotland.
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  #399  
Old 12-13-2010, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Please can I get one point across.

ALL the wives of the men are Princesses but they use their husband's names. It is the same thing as any woman marrying - technically Mrs Jane Smith is the divorced wife of Mr John Smith and Mrs John Smith is the correct technical form of the wife of Mr John Smith.

To make Catherine Princess Catherine officially (which is what it seems William wants) will require LPs and would also mean creating the other wives of Princes Princess own name in their own right. The only one that would change the way that they are known would be Princess Michael of Kent who would be known then as Princess Marie-Christine rather than Princess Michael.

There is a difference between the title and the style e.g. Camilla uses her husband's title of Duchess of Cornwall but she is also Princess Charles and thus a Princess.

What this report suggests is that William wants to change that styling - fine - so long as it applies to all the other princesses by marriage, even if they use titles additional to the title Princess.

Whatever way the Queen goes on this Kate's titles will be HRH Princess xxxx of Wales, then Duchess of Cornwall, then probably Princess of Wales and finally Queen. She wouldn't go backwards from being a Princess to being a Duchess on the accession of Charles but would add additional titles to the basic title of Princess.
As wives of descendants of Princess Elizabeth of Scotland and England (who was the mother of the electress Sophia, from whom the electress inherited her right to the English and Scottish throne) and male-line descendants of George I. all these ladies could use the title of "Princess of Scotland" as it is part of their husband's titles. And Scottish tradition allows the wife of a prince to use her own name. Thus Catherine could be called HRH Princess Catherine of Scotland and Wales...
  #400  
Old 12-13-2010, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I doubt that William will ask his grandmother to make Catherine a Princess in her own right.

What would be the purpose. I am would assume that he knows what would be involved and why go thru the hassle. And frankly, it isn't done in the BRF and I can't see the purpose of doing it now.
I totally agree. I'd like to add that to me the idea of styling the women within the BRF as Princesses in their own right wouldn't be a bad idea. If - which, again, I doubt - Kate will be styled Princess Catherine, then there should be a Princess Birgitte, Princess Marie-Christine etc, too. An exception only for the wife of Prince William I would find pretty unfair, but that's only me. However, I can very well imagine that, if she will be Princess William, the press will call her "Princess Kate" or "Princess Catherine", though.
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