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View Poll Results: What Title will the Queen bestow on William and Catherine?
Duke of Clarence 25 16.45%
Duke of Cambridge 68 44.74%
Duke of Sussex 5 3.29%
Duke of Windsor 8 5.26%
Duke of Kendall 2 1.32%
Earl of Something 8 5.26%
Hey! My choice isn't listed. I think it will be something else. 10 6.58%
Nothing. I think they will remain Prince and Princess William of Wales 26 17.11%
Voters: 152. You may not vote on this poll

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  #361  
Old 12-12-2010, 01:54 PM
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If it is true that William has asked not to be given a title and for Catherine to be made princess in her own right, then it leaves me rather torn on the subject! I am not comfortable with Catherine being known as Princess William even though that is the tradition and convention in this country! For some reason it doesn't sound right even though Princess Michael does sound ok (probably because of being familiar with the name). Very few people these days go by their husbands name (e.g. Mrs John Smith) and I simply do not think the public will respond well to Princess William. Equally, I sympathize with William's desire to remain known as Prince William.

The only solution (if a solution is required) is to make Catherine a princess in her own right but it's not been done before and the last thing the Queen will want is Princess Michael of Kent turning up at Buckingham Palace asking to be released from her male title!
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  #362  
Old 12-12-2010, 01:57 PM
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Don't forget that if Kate becomes Princess,she will have higher rank than Camilla
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  #363  
Old 12-12-2010, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
Don't forget that if Kate becomes Princess,she will have higher rank than Camilla
It's safe to assume that if HM creates new LPs to make Catherine a Princess, she would have to (to be fair) create Camilla, Sophie, Birgitte, Katherine and Marie-Christine of Kent Princess' in their own right as well..
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  #364  
Old 12-12-2010, 02:31 PM
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I don't see why she would have to make them all princess's in their own right. They already have their titles and Catherine will be the future kings wife.
  #365  
Old 12-12-2010, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess carmen View Post
I don't see why she would have to make them all princess's in their own right. They already have their titles and Catherine will be the future kings wife.
Why should she create Catherine a Princess in her own right and not everyone else? What makes Catherine so special?
Camilla is the heirs wife, and Catherine will become Duchess of Cornwall and of Rothesay when her father in law inherits the throne William may recieve his own title when he marries, therefor Catherine will become a Duchess.
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  #366  
Old 12-12-2010, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Why should she create Catherine a Princess in her own right and not everyone else? What makes Catherine so special?
Camilla is the heirs wife, and Catherine will become Duchess of Cornwall and of Rothesay when her father in law inherits the throne William may recieve his own title when he marries, therefor Catherine will become a Duchess.
I think princess carmen refers to their importancy to the throne. In that way, Camilla and Catherine are, and Birgitte, Katherine etc. not so much.
  #367  
Old 12-12-2010, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
Don't forget that if Kate becomes Princess,she will have higher rank than Camilla

No she won't. She takes her rank from her husband, so even if HM were to create Catherine a princess in her own right, she'd still rank in the order of precedence for ladies in the same position that William ranks in the order of precedence for gentlemen. At least, that's how it was explained here before.

Camilla will outrank Catherine until Catherine is Queen, and then Camilla as a Dowager Queen will be right below her.
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  #368  
Old 12-12-2010, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
Don't forget that if Kate becomes Princess,she will have higher rank than Camilla

Camilla is a princess now - HRH The Princess Charles.

Sophie is also a princess - HRH The Princess Edward

Brigitte is HRH Princess Richard and Katherine HRH Princess Edward while HRH Princess Michael of Kent is known like that because her husband has no other title.

I can't see the Queen giving her grand-daughter-in-law a title without extending it to all the others who have married males and become Princesses husband's name.

The reason we don't hear Princess Charles etc is because their husbands have other titles.

The females take the style and title of the husband so Kate will become a Princess on marriage - HRH Princess William of Wales.

Currently when only the ladies are present the princesses born take precedence over the princesses or other ladies who married into the royal family. Creating Catherine Princess Catherine won't change that - she would still be one who married in and Camilla will still be higher as she is married to the heir to the throne.

William clearly wants to change the idea of woman taking their husband's titles and styles when it means that the woman looses her own identity in the process.

I can see the Queen doing this but doing it in a general way - making all the ladies who are princesses by marriage but using their husbands' names princesses own name instead.
  #369  
Old 12-12-2010, 06:22 PM
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Camilla uses the title of Duchess of Cornwall for obvious reasons otherwise she too would be called the Princess of Wales.

Catherine is marrying an heir to the throne and I don't see why the Queen can't make an exception here and have Catherine styled "Princess". It could even be seen as a step towards modernizing the monarchy by keeping things "simple" rather than giving them new titles on their wedding day.
  #370  
Old 12-12-2010, 06:23 PM
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Could there not be a new precedent set whereby William wanting to perhaps modernise etc & not have the woman go 100% fully on what the husband's title is, asks the Queen to let Catherine be known as Princess Catherine of Wales, not actually making her a Princess properly in her own right (so were they to divorce she'd no longer be Princess anything) but merely taking William's current title but not using the standard full male form of it. So basically going with Princess William of Wales but allowing her to use her actual name in place of William. They could make it clear that she wasn't a Princess outright but was merely just using her own name but with William's title, rather like how many wives these days aren't Mrs John Smith, they are Mrs. Sue Smith or whatever, they take the title/family name of the husband but keep their first name.

That seems doable to me, shows some modernising in the sense of not forcing the woman to take the man's name with the title but not forcing the Queen to make her a proper Princess & thus all the other wives of various family members proper Princesses. I mean she's going to be known as Princess Catherine (or maybe Princess Kate!) anyway in the Press etc, whether it's her title or not, like they did with Diana.

And then perhaps later on in years to come when they are both more active in Royal Duties, or when William becomes the heir, rather than the heir to the heir, they can get a more official title for her, Princess of Wales etc. Works for me anyway even though it's probably against all tradition etc, I can see William wanting it if he's going for a more modern style with the Monarchy etc.
  #371  
Old 12-12-2010, 06:32 PM
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I hope to see William get what he wants for Kate.
It's a joy to see Catherine with William in the banner above.
  #372  
Old 12-12-2010, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs.B View Post
Camilla uses the title of Duchess of Cornwall for obvious reasons otherwise she too would be called the Princess of Wales.

Catherine is marrying an heir to the throne and I don't see why the Queen can't make an exception here and have Catherine styled "Princess". It could even be seen as a step towards modernizing the monarchy by keeping things "simple" rather than giving them new titles on their wedding day.
I don't see what Camilla using the title Duchess of Cornwall instead of Princess of Wales has anything to do with it?

It was be more difficult to create new Letters Patent to give Catherine the title of Princess in her own right, than to simple give her the title her husband will have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rossop7 View Post
Could there not be a new precedent set whereby William wanting to perhaps modernise etc & not have the woman go 100% fully on what the husband's title is, asks the Queen to let Catherine be known as Princess Catherine of Wales, not actually making her a Princess properly in her own right (so were they to divorce she'd no longer be Princess anything) but merely taking William's current title but not using the standard full male form of it. So basically going with Princess William of Wales but allowing her to use her actual name in place of William. They could make it clear that she wasn't a Princess outright but was merely just using her own name but with William's title, rather like how many wives these days aren't Mrs John Smith, they are Mrs. Sue Smith or whatever, they take the title/family name of the husband but keep their first name.

That seems doable to me, shows some modernising in the sense of not forcing the woman to take the man's name with the title but not forcing the Queen to make her a proper Princess & thus all the other wives of various family members proper Princesses. I mean she's going to be known as Princess Catherine (or maybe Princess Kate!) anyway in the Press etc, whether it's her title or not, like they did with Diana.

And then perhaps later on in years to come when they are both more active in Royal Duties, or when William becomes the heir, rather than the heir to the heir, they can get a more official title for her, Princess of Wales etc. Works for me anyway even though it's probably against all tradition etc, I can see William wanting it if he's going for a more modern style with the Monarchy etc.
Sorry, but what's the point of being known as Princess Catherine, when you aren't an actualy Princess? You're pretending to be someone you were never born to be.
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  #373  
Old 12-12-2010, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post

Sorry, but what's the point of being known as Princess Catherine, when you aren't an actualy Princess? You're pretending to be someone you were never born to be.
Well you could argue what's the point of the Royal Family at all when they aren't the rulers or have any real power over the country? Lol. It's just for the sake of it, the simple show of it all these days. Maybe it's just me but it doesn't bother me if she's a "real" Princess or not, she's going to be called Princess even if she never actually gets that title officially, people/media will just call her it anyway regardless. It's just a title, something for show if you like, it doesn't actually mean something in the way it did centuries ago. I mean don't get me wrong I love having the Royal Fmaily for the tradition of it, the tourism & industry it brings to the country, the symbolism etc but that's all it is really these days, symbols, so I've no problem with her just having a title solely for the purposes of the symbolism of it, the PR of it if you like, rather than any actual basis to it.

I think they either have to go the traditional way of having a Dukedom upon marriage so she gets her own title, Duchess of wherever, or they go about things in a slightly different though not too outrageous way & just let her keep her first name but take William's title for now even if it's merely for show. Then again if neither are gong to be doing too much in Royal Duties right away maybe no-one will care if she's officially Princess William of Wales because we won't really see much of them in official capacities in order to use it.
  #374  
Old 12-12-2010, 07:40 PM
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I don't understand the British titles as "Lady Nicholas Windsor"(as she wasn't a born lady) or "Princess Michael "(she wasn't born Princess),it doesn't sound well and it's pretty funny .I understand William in this point,as Russian or French royals or nobles don't apply these rules
  #375  
Old 12-12-2010, 07:47 PM
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I hope there's some truth to this because I think it's a wonderful idea to make Kate HRH Princess Catherine of Wales. As has been said, that's what she'll be referred to anyway just like the rest of the European princesses. I happen to think it's more ridiculous to make the couple Duke & Duchess of Somewhere they don't live and have no particular ties to.
  #376  
Old 12-12-2010, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
I don't understand the British titles as "Lady Nicholas Windsor"(as she wasn't a born lady) or "Princess Michael "(she wasn't born Princess),it doesn't sound well and it's pretty funny .I understand William in this point,as Russian or French royals or nobles don't apply these rules
As previously discussed, women in take precedence and their titles from their husband. I fail to see how its pretty funny.

So Marie Christine and Paola became Princess Michael of Kent and Lady Nicholas Windsor when they married.

Likewise, Lady Helen Windsor who was born a Lady as the daughter of a duke...became Lady Helen Taylor at her wedding. Assuming the last name of her husband. And her husband gets no title.
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  #377  
Old 12-12-2010, 08:11 PM
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Please can I get one point across.

ALL the wives of the men are Princesses but they use their husband's names. It is the same thing as any woman marrying - technically Mrs Jane Smith is the divorced wife of Mr John Smith and Mrs John Smith is the correct technical form of the wife of Mr John Smith.

To make Catherine Princess Catherine officially (which is what it seems William wants) will require LPs and would also mean creating the other wives of Princes Princess own name in their own right. The only one that would change the way that they are known would be Princess Michael of Kent who would be known then as Princess Marie-Christine rather than Princess Michael.

There is a difference between the title and the style e.g. Camilla uses her husband's title of Duchess of Cornwall but she is also Princess Charles and thus a Princess.

What this report suggests is that William wants to change that styling - fine - so long as it applies to all the other princesses by marriage, even if they use titles additional to the title Princess.

Whatever way the Queen goes on this Kate's titles will be HRH Princess xxxx of Wales, then Duchess of Cornwall, then probably Princess of Wales and finally Queen. She wouldn't go backwards from being a Princess to being a Duchess on the accession of Charles but would add additional titles to the basic title of Princess.
  #378  
Old 12-12-2010, 08:23 PM
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I've read in British Royal Info that William his grandmother,the Queen,not to give the title of Duke or any other.Could it be true?
It may be true he asked his grandmother to consider it, but The Queen is not likely to grant Catherine the right to be "Princess Catherine". In the UK, the precedent followed for wives' styles marrying HRH is the same practice used in the Peerage.

Catherine would assume the style, rank and title of her husband if superior to her own. Like any woman who marries a son or male-line grandson of The Sovereign, she automatically becomes a Princess of the UK with the style, rank and attribute of Royal Highness (HRH Princess William of Wales). Since this style is simply a courtesy title regulated by the will of the Sovereign, it is customary for a Peerage to be granted to provide a title.

If William prefers not to be created a Duke, the The Queen can create him an Earl instead to provide a title for Catherine.
  #379  
Old 12-12-2010, 08:27 PM
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I doubt that William will ask his grandmother to make Catherine a Princess in her own right.

What would be the purpose. I am would assume that he knows what would be involved and why go thru the hassle. And frankly, it isn't done in the BRF and I can't see the purpose of doing it now.
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  #380  
Old 12-12-2010, 08:32 PM
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These are modern times and the Queen can bestow Princess Catherine and I hope she does just as Princess Diana was bestowed
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