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  #261  
Old 07-12-2006, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOY!
Yeha, it was suppose to be a 'private' party but, I hope he's learned his lesson, that you have to watchful at all times. You never know when someone might take a pic. I do question his motives, I mean the boy can't be so dumb to not know the effect of his actions? he seems a bit immature to me. Hopefully he'll shape up, and won't be so ignorant next time :)
I understand what you mean. But I'd also like to add that if he had been taught better, perhaps it would not have happened in the first place?

He's a nice young man, but ok.

Perhaps look also at the people (incl. his family) who instruct him, or rather fail to instruct him on these type of things?:)
Could that be a possibility?
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  #262  
Old 07-12-2006, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Mary I
My uncle told me Rommel was a good man and a good soldier who was anti-Hitler and they forced him to either kill himself or face execution.
You are right. Anyway, I found really nothing wrong with Harry's party costume in that it was that--a party costume. Too many people made such a big deal about it and quoted war figures, etc. Nobody seems to think going as a terrorist or just a British soldier is anything wrong with that. Perhaps he should have gone as tinkerbell. But, anyway I think he probably would have looked great in the SS black uniform with the black boots, etc and his red hair.
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  #263  
Old 07-29-2006, 01:38 AM
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Now, recently Harry was seen wearing a shirt with Che Guevara a lot of people refer to him as a terrorist and killer. I mean this boy is not that stupid! I'm sure he knew who Che was. Maybe he simply does not care? I think he is ignorant, and stupid. The same thing could go here, he knew what that armband ment and he decided to wear it anyway, probably knowing the trouble it would cause.
It's not to hard to see that he is a ignorant little rich boy who doesn't know much about the world and things that have happened.
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  #264  
Old 07-29-2006, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRH Kimetha
You are right. Anyway, I found really nothing wrong with Harry's party costume in that it was that--a party costume. Too many people made such a big deal about it and quoted war figures, etc. Nobody seems to think going as a terrorist or just a British soldier is anything wrong with that. Perhaps he should have gone as tinkerbell. But, anyway I think he probably would have looked great in the SS black uniform with the black boots, etc and his red hair.

Hmmm, except that the SS uniform was worn by evil people who murdered millions of people in concentration camps and also killed tens of thousands of British people with their army. So perhaps not so suitable for the Queen of England's grandson? I think not.
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  #265  
Old 07-30-2006, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felicia
Hmmm, except that the SS uniform was worn by evil people who murdered millions of people in concentration camps and also killed tens of thousands of British people with their army. So perhaps not so suitable for the Queen of England's grandson? I think not.
I thought he wore the uniform of the Afrika Korps not the SS. A huge difference in my opinion (as someone who has done quite a bit of university Masters Degree study on the War in Europe).
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  #266  
Old 08-02-2006, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felicia
Hmmm, except that the SS uniform was worn by evil people who murdered millions of people in concentration camps and also killed tens of thousands of British people with their army. So perhaps not so suitable for the Queen of England's grandson? I think not.
I do agree that it wouldn't be so suitable, but the uniform is very attractive and Harry's red hair would have been a plus.
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  #267  
Old 08-02-2006, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felicia
Hmmm, except that the SS uniform was worn by evil people who murdered millions of people in concentration camps and also killed tens of thousands of British people with their army. So perhaps not so suitable for the Queen of England's grandson? I think not.

I have re-read your post and think that you don't understand what the SS was compared to the rest of the German army.

The SS were truly evil but they were a small minority even of those who were Nazis but the majority of the army weren't active members of the Nazi party - they were simply soldiers who were fighting for their country. The officers had to join the party but then so did teachers have to join the Nazi Teachers organisation (I don't think that that makes all teachers or officers Nazis - I had to join a union when I started teaching in NSW in 1980 as the Department of Education had a union preference clause in the award and there were so many union members that non-members didn't get a look in - does than mean that I support everything the union movement stands for in this country - no. It means that sometimes people join an organisation because they still want to work in their chosen profession.)

The uniform Harry wore was reported as the Afrika Korps - the unit led by Rommel who was forced to commit suicide for supporting the 1944 attempt to assassinate Hitler. My great-uncle fought against the AFrika Korps and had a great respect for all of these soldiers as they were great fighters and respected their enemy just as their enemy respected them. These were NOT the SS who ran the concentration camps but just ordinary soldiers doing their job.

Don't get me wrong - the Nazis were among the most evil regimes to ever have control of any country but not all Germans of the time were Nazis. Not even all members of the party were true Nazis. If they joined the party after 1933 questions must be raised about their commitment (depends in some cases as to when the laws requiring membership of the party or an associated organisation was passed as to when I would make that distinction). e.g. with a child who joined the Hitler Youth before 1937 I would question the commitment of the parents - as it was voluntary then but after that date I would suspect that many parents had their children join because they feared some repercussions within their own life.
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  #268  
Old 08-02-2006, 03:32 PM
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Chrissy57,
Thank you for explaining and clearing that up . I always wondered if everyone in Germany was actually in sympathy with the Nazis during that time period in history (1933-1945) or if a lot of them just pretended to be a part of the organization out of fear and self preservation. It's also very interesting to hear about the Afrika Corps.

IMO this shows that although Harry did make a mistake and choose a controversial costume, at least he had enough presence of mind to choose one that wasn't directly connected with atrocity.

If you sort of study Prince Harry's behaviour, it seems obvious that he does things like this as a way of rebelling 'under the radar'.
(ie: smoking marijuana, drinking too much, wearing the Che-whatever T-Shirt)
It really is too bad that he didn't find some other way to stage his little rebellion because it's obvious that's all he was doing-- rebelling against the 'establishment' in a low key, passive/agressive way.
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  #269  
Old 08-02-2006, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
Don't get me wrong - the Nazis were among the most evil regimes to ever have control of any country but not all Germans of the time were Nazis. Not even all members of the party were true Nazis. If they joined the party after 1933 questions must be raised about their commitment (depends in some cases as to when the laws requiring membership of the party or an associated organisation was passed as to when I would make that distinction). e.g. with a child who joined the Hitler Youth before 1937 I would question the commitment of the parents - as it was voluntary then but after that date I would suspect that many parents had their children join because they feared some repercussions within their own life.
True but I'm sure those nuances were lost to Harry. He generally knew what Nazis represented, yet wore it anyway. But again, this was forever ago

I don't think the che shirt is a big deal though
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  #270  
Old 08-03-2006, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regardez
True but I'm sure those nuances were lost to Harry. He generally knew what Nazis represented, yet wore it anyway. But again, this was forever ago

I don't think the che shirt is a big deal though
That would depend on who deeply he had actually studied Germany and WWII.

As the theme of the party was something about Africa he might have been fully aware of what he was doing - considering the experiences of members of his family during that war I am sure he knew the distinction ever more than many ordinary people. He had relatives who were committed Nazis - a great-uncle for one but other relatives who hid Jews from the SS and Gestapo - his great-grandmother who has been honoured by the state of Israel for her efforts.
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  #271  
Old 08-03-2006, 05:52 AM
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I think it was done in very bad taste ! and he should of know better.
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  #272  
Old 08-03-2006, 10:51 AM
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I agree, he should have known better. But you have to admit, Prince Harry is definitely Fun!
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  #273  
Old 08-03-2006, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyaR
I agree, he should have known better. But you have to admit, Prince Harry is definitely Fun!
Yes have to agree with you there he is fun! !
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  #274  
Old 08-04-2006, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
That would depend on who deeply he had actually studied Germany and WWII.

As the theme of the party was something about Africa he might have been fully aware of what he was doing - considering the experiences of members of his family during that war I am sure he knew the distinction ever more than many ordinary people. He had relatives who were committed Nazis - a great-uncle for one but other relatives who hid Jews from the SS and Gestapo - his great-grandmother who has been honoured by the state of Israel for her efforts.
Which great uncle of Harry was a committed Nazi? I hope you are not referring to Edward VIII. And which greatgrandmother was honoured by Israel? And who in the royal family hid Jews?
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  #275  
Old 08-04-2006, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRH Kimetha
I do agree that it wouldn't be so suitable, but the uniform is very attractive and Harry's red hair would have been a plus.
But the SS operated Auschwitz. If Harry were to wear such a uniform it would just be so evil and distressing to so many people.
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  #276  
Old 08-04-2006, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrissy57
I have re-read your post and think that you don't understand what the SS was compared to the rest of the German army.
Chrissy I absolutely do understand the difference between the SS and the Afrika Corp, etc. I've studied this stuff a bit too, and watched so many documentaries about it. What I meant in my original post was not that Harry wore a uniform that was worn by those killing in concentration camps, but that he wore a uniform that was worn by those Nazis FIGHTING ON THE SAME SIDE as those committing atrocities in the camps etc. Different divisions, but the same overall cause. Do you see now? It was just shameful that he wore anything Nazi at all. Sheer stupidity is the most likely reason though.
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  #277  
Old 08-04-2006, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felicia
And which greatgrandmother was honoured by Israel? And who in the royal family hid Jews?
Prince Philip's mother, Princess Andrew of Greece (neé Alice of Battenberg).

In 1993 a posthumous award to Alice as 'Righteous among the Nations' was approved by the Holocaust Memorial, Yad Vashem, in Jerusalem, recognising that "during the Holocaust period in Europe she had risked her life to save persecuted Jews." The lengthy process of obtaining the medal had been initiated by Freddy Cohen, one of the family Alice had hidden in Athens during WWII.

source: "Alice, Princess Andrew of Greece" by Hugo Vickers ©2000.
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  #278  
Old 08-04-2006, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felicia
Which great uncle of Harry was a committed Nazi? I hope you are not referring to Edward VIII. And which greatgrandmother was honoured by Israel? And who in the royal family hid Jews?
The husband of Prince Philip's sister Sophie (I think his name was Prince Christopher of Hesse. He was killed in action over Italy and she later remarried).

Prince Philip's mother, Princess Alice of Greece, stayed in Athens throughout the war and hid Jews in her home at various times throughout the war.
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  #279  
Old 08-04-2006, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felicia
Chrissy I absolutely do understand the difference between the SS and the Afrika Corp, etc. I've studied this stuff a bit too, and watched so many documentaries about it. What I meant in my original post was not that Harry wore a uniform that was worn by those killing in concentration camps, but that he wore a uniform that was worn by those Nazis FIGHTING ON THE SAME SIDE as those committing atrocities in the camps etc. Different divisions, but the same overall cause. Do you see now? It was just shameful that he wore anything Nazi at all. Sheer stupidity is the most likely reason though.

Had you read my first comment you will see that I believed, from your post that you didn't understand the difference not that you didn't.

You didn't say they were 'fighting on the same side' but rather that he wore the uniform of the SS, which implied to me, very clearly that you didn't understand the difference between the SS and the army and its different units.

Had you given the correct information in the first place (namely that Harry wore the uniform of the Afrika Korps rather than saying her wore the uniform of the SS), which if you have studied the period you would clearly have understood, then I would never have needed to respond. The only similarity in their uniforms is the swastika as the SS wore black and the Afrika Korps wore a light khaki suitable for fighting in the desert.

The SS were definitely NOT the same as the Afrika Korps and to confuse the two is an insult to the highly respected members of that organisation - respected as foes by the men that I know who fought against them, including my great-uncle and many men who were among the famous Rats of Tobruk as well as quite a few who fought against them at el-Alamein and other occasions across the North African desert.

One of these friends now has, as his brother-in-law, a member of this organisation. I only found out on Thursday night at a meeting when we were talking about their war experiences and Klaus was telling us about fighting for Rommel and how much he respected Rommel and his comrades. It was fascinating talking to a man who had been in Germany at that time and his memories - fading now of course as he is in his mid-80s, the sadness of the impact of the Depression and having his father out of work, the hope that Hitler gave the country and when he realised that Hitler wasn't the great man he had thought he was only a couple of years earlier. He said he realised the situation in about late 1943. Until then he thought Hitler was the greatest. I admired Klaus for being an honest man as many Germans from that period seem to always say that they didn't support Hitler at all. He was in the army from 18 and never wanted to do anything else as he wanted to get revenge on the allies for the mistreatment of Germany at the end of WWI - his words not mine. I should have asked him about what he thought of Harry wearing the uniform that he wore with pride for so long but didn't think it was appropriate. He never fought on the western front - actually he was a POW after the allied invasion of Italy and refused to return to Germany after the war and asked to come to Australia as he had the utmost respect for Australian fighting men and he said he wanted to live the rest of his life in the country that produced the best and fairest soldiers he ever fought against. Shortly after arriving here he met his wife and had a bit of trouble getting her father to agree to the match as she had lost two brothers in the North African campaign but when Bill said how much he admired the Afrika Korps as great fighters the father relented and Bill and Klaus have shared many chats about their experiences over the subsequent 58 years.
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  #280  
Old 08-05-2006, 02:55 AM
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Um Chrissy. Once again I think you have misunderstood. I am not doubting your knowledge about the North Africa campain. But you don't see that I NEVER said Harry wore the SS uniform. I have studied the period and I know a lot more about it all than you would think. The original post I made in this topic was to HRHKimetha who said Harry would LOOK GOOD in a SS uniform. And I said that even so IT WOULD BE VERY INAPROPRIATE FOR HIM TO WEAR IT. I did not say that he wore such a uniform, ever. I know there is a big difference between the ss and the Afrika Korps. Please read my posts in context and stop accusing me of saying things I didn't.

I KNOW I didn't say they were fighting on the same side, that's why I CLEARED IT UP (WHAT I MEANT) in a further post. This is really tiresome how you keep misunderstanding. I NEVER confused the SS with the Afrika Korps, you have just misunderstood all along.
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