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  #201  
Old 01-19-2005, 09:45 PM
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Harry Story Shines Light On Royals
NEW YORK, Jan. 18, 2005


Prince Harry going to a costume party in a Nazi uniform still has people up in arms around the world. In England, a poll found three out of four Brits felt it was wrong. Leaders of the European Union are considering a ban on all Nazi symbols.

But, says Vanity Fair magazine and royals watcher Victoria Mather, the story may run far deeper.

"This story implicates the whole of the aristocracy –- the Harry crowd," Mather told The Early Show co-anchor Harry Smith, "because they do think racism and bigotry are funny. There were people at that party in black face."

What's more, Mather says, the incident doesn't help the royals' standing in Britain, in general: "A story like this encourages republicanism, rampant republicanism."

That said, Mather points out you also have to "look at it another way. On both sides of the Atlantic, on Broadway and London's West End, audiences are crowding into 'The Producers' to see 'Springtime for Hitler.' "

Mather notes that the story continues to resonate in Britain. "It is still absolutely huge. It's the big, post-tsunami story. The tsunami story is running out. Now you've got this gift of a story, which is this stupid young prince making this terrible, public gaffe. Why wouldn't anyone tell him how thick he was being?"

Harry needs guidance, and gets precious little, Mather asserts: "There's no one. He has only been seen by his father three days in the last six weeks. There was nobody at home. What's significant is he went to the party with his brother. But, he did not put on the swastika armband, which was homemade, until he got to the party, when he went into lavatory and then put it on, thinking it was a huge joke.

"Now, the implications of this -- it may seem a completely disproportionate response, because it was a private party, and it was very unattractive that some snitch would take the picture and sell it. But how thick are you not to know that every single kid at that age has a phone with a camera in it?

"But this guy (Harry) is stupid. You have to be very stupid to graduate from Eaton with the worst results in the whole school: 'A' levels in something like needlework and art."

It gets worse, Mather says. "(Harry's) girlfriend is a problem, too, because her father is associated with the despot Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe. This is not a great girlfriend."

Mather expressed doubt Harry would wind up in military school, as has been long planned, because he continues to cite knee problems. But they don't stop him from participating in scuba diving, skiing and polo, she observes.

There weren't any kind words from Mather about Harry's father, Prince Charles: "He's out for the holiday in Scotland with Mrs. Parker Bowles. He didn't even come home to spank this young man and say, 'Brace up, mate.' He cares, but he doesn't know what to do.

"Talking about the advisers, the advisers don't know what to do, because there is no advice, there is no parenting and there is no mother (the late Princess Diana), and this boy is just not the shiniest jewel in the crown."

The Harry incident "has probably put back" any possible marriage of Charles and Camilla Parker-Bowles.

Of Charles, Mather says, "You've already been failure once as a husband. You're a failure as a father. You're just a failure, aren't you?"



©MMV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.
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  #202  
Old 01-19-2005, 09:58 PM
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I knew it was time for these boys to start doing royal duties.



Harry may get larger royal role

[ TUESDAY, JANUARY 18, 2005 11:15:29 PM ]
Buckingham Palace is pressing Prince Harry to shoulder the duties of a working royal in an effort to curb his wayward behaviour. The palace initiative, which will also affect Prince William, ends the policy of shielding the princes from public exposure, which was introduced after the death of their mother, Diana, Princess of Wales, in 1997.

One source said: "Working hard helped remake the reputation of the Princess Royal and of the Earl of Wessex. It will also be the answer for Harry."

Harry's ill-judged decision a week ago to don a Nazi uniform for a fancy dress party occurred in one of the many rest periods during his current double "gap year".

By contrast, the Prince of Wales was regularly undertaking royal engagements by the age of 20. One palace source said William risked becoming embroiled in embarrassing incidents if he had no formal plan after graduation this summer. He is expected to begin a low-key programme of official engagements directly after completing his education at St Andrews University, Scotland.

An adviser said: "The boys are now grown men and the arrangements put in place when they lost their mother no longer make sense." This weekend there were the first signs that courtiers at Clarence House — as well as the palace — believed both princes should at last be eased into formal royal engagements. Neither is expected to claim payments from the civil list.

The Sunday Times, London





I have been saying this all along. They need to start royal duties now! Screw if they want to live life outside of it. They need (esp. William) to accept their destiny and do their duties or just give up royal life altogether. Most people their age are in school or have jobs after school. This is their job and duty so they need to accept it now!
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  #203  
Old 01-19-2005, 10:25 PM
sommone's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Well, so far it's only been one royal going to the party and dressing in a Nazi costume; it isn't as though they're all doing it! As far as parties with tasteless themes, that's sort of what you get when people have more money than sense, and there'll always be some of those around.
Elspeth, didn't William attend this party as well? Maybe he didn't offend anyone by dressing up as a Nazi, but his attendance at the party speaks volumes to me. That's what I meant when I said royals...not the whole family.:) Yes, I agree with you concerning more money than sense...
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  #204  
Old 01-19-2005, 10:43 PM
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Yes, William did go to the party too; I just meant that there was only one of them who was bone-headed enough to go there and to be dressed as a Nazi. I suppose when you spend so much of your life mixing with the "idle rich," you tend to lose perspective on it. The interesting thing is that, according to reports at the time (although I don't know how accurate they were), both boys really disliked the ostentatious jet-set lifestyle of the al Fayeds and were happier mucking around in the country at Sandringham and Balmoral. Apparently things change a bit when you get older.

Funny thing is, if it hadn't been for the furore over Harry's costume, we'd probably have mostly heard of the party as a result of half the female readership here swooning over the thought of William in a leopard outfit!
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  #205  
Old 01-19-2005, 10:44 PM
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Thanks for the update, Reina!
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  #206  
Old 01-20-2005, 03:39 AM
queenanne's Avatar
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At the risk of launching many attacks on myself, I have to ask: does anyone else think the media is making waaaayyyy too big a deal out of all of this? Yeah, he chose a stupid costume and he probably should have chosen something else, but it was just a costume. Also, he's already apologized. The media should just drop it. What right does the media have to follow him to a private party and then tear him apart for his bad choices, anyways? He's still young, and last time I checked, we all make mistakes when we're young. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way anti-semitic; I'm no Neo-nazi, I just don't think its that big a deal.:) No offense meant towards anyone (except the paparazzi ). Also, would anyone else love to see that that girl is out of his life? She seems to talk to the press way too much and doesn't seem to be a good influence. He needs a strong, smart, loving woman to help him grow up.:)
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  #207  
Old 01-20-2005, 08:18 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Posts: 228
See article in French Newspapar " le Monde"

"The Chins", la bande hédoniste des princes Harry et William
LE MONDE | 17.01.05 | 14h03
OAS_AD('Frame1');Les archives du "Monde" : plus de 800 000 articles à consulter. Abonnez-vous au Monde.fr </U>
Londres de notre correspondant



"The Chins" (les mentons) : c'est le nom de totem de la bande entourant Harry et William, les deux fils du prince Charles. Il s'agit d'une allusion à cette manière particulière dont la noblesse et la grande bourgeoisie ancienne du royaume jouent de la partie saillante du visage.OAS_AD('Middle'); Cette expression est la signature de l'une des tribus les plus discrètes de la jeunesse anglaise. La photo sur laquelle on voit le prince Harry déguisé en officier nazi, brassard frappé d'une swastika au bras gauche, a projeté à la "une" de l'actualité cette caste de teenagers, avec ses codes et ses signes de reconnaissance.

Ils s'appellent Luke et Mark Tomlinson, Harry Legge-Bourke, Harry Meade, Davina Duckworth-Chad ou Natalie Hicks-Lobbeke. Des noms à rallonge, liés depuis des lustres à la famille royale. Les garçons sont tous passés par les collèges privés avant de rejoindre le Cirencester Agricultural College, célèbre école spécialisée dans la formation des gestionnaires de domaines, ou l'académie militaire de Sandhurst. Les filles, sorties obligatoirement du Cheltenham Ladies College ou de Roedean, œuvrent ensuite dans les associations de préservation du patrimoine ou au comptoir des salles de vente en attendant de faire un bon mariage.

Beuveries et fêtes costumées (équivalent des rallyes mondains à la française) rythment les week-ends de ce groupe basé autour de Highgrove, la résidence de campagne du prince Charles, à deux heures de voiture de Londres. A la lager de prédilection des jeunes de leur âge, ils préfèrent la vodka-cranberry ou la tequila sunrise pour se saouler. Tous aiment la vie au grand air. Ils ont hérité de leurs parents le goût du sport, en particulier de la chasse à courre et du polo.

"UNE IMPRESSION D'IMPUNITÉ"

Ce petit monde hait Tony Blair, dont le projet d'interdiction de la chasse à courre menace, estiment-ils, leur manière de vivre. Harry Meade, qui avait organisé la fête costumée par laquelle le scandale est arrivé, avait d'ailleurs été arrêté pour avoir interrompu le discours du premier ministre lors du dernier congrès du New Labour. Pour autant, le leader conservateur, Michael Howard, ne trouve pas grâce à leurs yeux : citadin, avocat et juif.

Ce cercle de privilégiés a une conscience très aiguë de son statut social. Il se ferme comme une huître devant l'"argent nouveau" issu de l'establishment des médias, de la City ou de l'entreprise. "Il s'agit d'un monde où l'on se connaît depuis le berceau, où la mentalité est immature voire infantile, coupée de la réalité. Ses membres ont un fort sentiment de supériorité qui leur donne une impression d'impunité, ce qui les rend parfois très impolis", explique un organisateur d'événements pour la haute société.

Leur univers ne comprend ni Noirs ni Asiatiques. Reste que ces jeunes gens sont fascinés par l'Afrique, où ils passent souvent leurs vacances à chasser le gros gibier. Ainsi, pour célébrer ses 21 ans, le prince William avait organisé une party costumée sur le thème "Out of Africa". Celui de la soirée à scandale de Meade était "Natives and Colonials" (indigènes et colonisateurs). A cette occasion, certains invités s'étaient déguisés en zoulous en se recouvrant le visage de cirage !

Jasmine Alibaï-Brown, journaliste d'origine pakistanaise de l'Independent, s'indigne du manque de sensibilité à l'égard de la société multiculturelle britannique : "Comment le deuxième et le troisième dans l'ordre de succession au trône peuvent-ils participer à une fête aux connotations ouvertement racistes ?" De son côté, le Times annonce, dans son édition du 17 janvier, que la Chambre des communes se prépare à ouvrir une enquête sur l'entourage et les conseillers du prince Harry.

Marc Roche
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  #208  
Old 01-20-2005, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queenanne
At the risk of launching many attacks on myself, I have to ask: does anyone else think the media is making waaaayyyy too big a deal out of all of this? Yeah, he chose a stupid costume and he probably should have chosen something else, but it was just a costume. Also, he's already apologized. The media should just drop it. What right does the media have to follow him to a private party and then tear him apart for his bad choices, anyways? He's still young, and last time I checked, we all make mistakes when we're young. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way anti-semitic; I'm no Neo-nazi, I just don't think its that big a deal.:) No offense meant towards anyone (except the paparazzi ). Also, would anyone else love to see that that girl is out of his life? She seems to talk to the press way too much and doesn't seem to be a good influence. He needs a strong, smart, loving woman to help him grow up.:)
Don't worry I won't attack:)
But I think the thing is is that maybe the media is trying to focus on the big picture that has come from this. Like the fact that maybe certain ppl think racism is funny and that it is ok for certain groups to be made fun of.

Also...for some reason I can't read that last article. (even though I took a year of french)
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  #209  
Old 01-20-2005, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elenaris
"The Chins", la bande hédoniste des princes Harry et William
LE MONDE | 17.01.05 | 14h03
OAS_AD('Frame1');Les archives du "Monde" : plus de 800 000 articles à consulter. Abonnez-vous au Monde.fr </U>
Londres de notre correspondant
Can you provide a summary or a translation of this good article?
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  #210  
Old 01-20-2005, 05:05 PM
sommone's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queenanne
At the risk of launching many attacks on myself, I have to ask: does anyone else think the media is making waaaayyyy too big a deal out of all of this? Yeah, he chose a stupid costume and he probably should have chosen something else, but it was just a costume. Also, he's already apologized. The media should just drop it. What right does the media have to follow him to a private party and then tear him apart for his bad choices, anyways? He's still young, and last time I checked, we all make
mistakes when we're young. Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way anti-semitic; I'm no Neo-nazi, I just don't think its that big a deal.:) No offense meant towards anyone (except the paparazzi ). Also, would anyone else love to see that that girl is out of his life? She seems to talk to the press way too much and doesn't seem to be a good influence. He needs a strong, smart, loving woman to help him grow up.:)


I'm not into attacking either, but I'm going to have to agree with Reina. True, the media had no right to follow William and Harry to a private party, but my thing is that because the press is constantly hounding them all of the time, they should have known it would be found out. I mean the fact that Harry thought wearing a Nazi costume was going to be amusing makes me a question many things about where his head was. Also, what bothered me as well is that they are princes, one someday is going to be king, and they are attending a party that was flaunting racism. Future kings don't attend parties that jest about bigotry. There were people there wearing black paint on their faces, and I'm sure they thought it was funny. Why on earth would they (William and Harry) even want to attend a party like that? William especially..It makes me question his ability to someday be king. Like someone said, these people don't have any respect for other people apparantly, and they think bigotry and racism is a joke. But I'm sure if they were to walk in the foot steps of some of the same people that they mocked, they'd have a change in attitude. So, it's all in how you choose to look at the situation.
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  #211  
Old 01-20-2005, 08:06 PM
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The media didn't follow the boys to this party. The pictures of Harry were taken by a fellow party goer who sold them to the newspapers.
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  #212  
Old 01-20-2005, 08:18 PM
queenanne's Avatar
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Thank you, Reina and Sommone, for your replies.:) You have several good ideas that I hadn't thought of before. They shouldn't think racism is funny and if they do, they need to be taken in hand and corrected immediately. Also, reading what James said, what a horrible thing for someone to do, whether friend or foe! I suggest whole new social groups for Harry.:)
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  #213  
Old 01-20-2005, 09:51 PM
sommone's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james
The media didn't follow the boys to this party. The pictures of Harry were taken by a fellow party goer who sold them to the newspapers.


Hmm, I didn't know that.
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  #214  
Old 01-21-2005, 07:19 AM
Aristocracy
 
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some resume

Quote:
Originally Posted by elenaris
"The Chins", la bande hédoniste des princes Harry et William
LE MONDE | 17.01.05 | 14h03
OAS_AD('Frame1');Les archives du "Monde" : plus de 800 000 articles à consulter. Abonnez-vous au Monde.fr </U>
Londres de notre correspondant



"The Chins" (les mentons) : c'est le nom de totem de la bande entourant Harry et William, les deux fils du prince Charles. Il s'agit d'une allusion à cette manière particulière dont la noblesse et la grande bourgeoisie ancienne du royaume jouent de la partie saillante du visage.OAS_AD('Middle'); Cette expression est la signature de l'une des tribus les plus discrètes de la jeunesse anglaise. La photo sur laquelle on voit le prince Harry déguisé en officier nazi, brassard frappé d'une swastika au bras gauche, a projeté à la "une" de l'actualité cette caste de teenagers, avec ses codes et ses signes de reconnaissance.

Ils s'appellent Luke et Mark Tomlinson, Harry Legge-Bourke, Harry Meade, Davina Duckworth-Chad ou Natalie Hicks-Lobbeke. Des noms à rallonge, liés depuis des lustres à la famille royale. Les garçons sont tous passés par les collèges privés avant de rejoindre le Cirencester Agricultural College, célèbre école spécialisée dans la formation des gestionnaires de domaines, ou l'académie militaire de Sandhurst. Les filles, sorties obligatoirement du Cheltenham Ladies College ou de Roedean, œuvrent ensuite dans les associations de préservation du patrimoine ou au comptoir des salles de vente en attendant de faire un bon mariage.

Beuveries et fêtes costumées (équivalent des rallyes mondains à la française) rythment les week-ends de ce groupe basé autour de Highgrove, la résidence de campagne du prince Charles, à deux heures de voiture de Londres. A la lager de prédilection des jeunes de leur âge, ils préfèrent la vodka-cranberry ou la tequila sunrise pour se saouler. Tous aiment la vie au grand air. Ils ont hérité de leurs parents le goût du sport, en particulier de la chasse à courre et du polo.

"UNE IMPRESSION D'IMPUNITÉ"

Ce petit monde hait Tony Blair, dont le projet d'interdiction de la chasse à courre menace, estiment-ils, leur manière de vivre. Harry Meade, qui avait organisé la fête costumée par laquelle le scandale est arrivé, avait d'ailleurs été arrêté pour avoir interrompu le discours du premier ministre lors du dernier congrès du New Labour. Pour autant, le leader conservateur, Michael Howard, ne trouve pas grâce à leurs yeux : citadin, avocat et juif.

Ce cercle de privilégiés a une conscience très aiguë de son statut social. Il se ferme comme une huître devant l'"argent nouveau" issu de l'establishment des médias, de la City ou de l'entreprise. "Il s'agit d'un monde où l'on se connaît depuis le berceau, où la mentalité est immature voire infantile, coupée de la réalité. Ses membres ont un fort sentiment de supériorité qui leur donne une impression d'impunité, ce qui les rend parfois très impolis", explique un organisateur d'événements pour la haute société.

Leur univers ne comprend ni Noirs ni Asiatiques. Reste que ces jeunes gens sont fascinés par l'Afrique, où ils passent souvent leurs vacances à chasser le gros gibier. Ainsi, pour célébrer ses 21 ans, le prince William avait organisé une party costumée sur le thème "Out of Africa". Celui de la soirée à scandale de Meade était "Natives and Colonials" (indigènes et colonisateurs). A cette occasion, certains invités s'étaient déguisés en zoulous en se recouvrant le visage de cirage !

Jasmine Alibaï-Brown, journaliste d'origine pakistanaise de l'Independent, s'indigne du manque de sensibilité à l'égard de la société multiculturelle britannique : "Comment le deuxième et le troisième dans l'ordre de succession au trône peuvent-ils participer à une fête aux connotations ouvertement racistes ?" De son côté, le Times annonce, dans son édition du 17 janvier, que la Chambre des communes se prépare à ouvrir une enquête sur l'entourage et les conseillers du prince Harry.

Marc Roche
I'll try to provide you with a resume in english:

According to "Le Monde," Prince William and Prince Harry belong to a group of young upper class friends whose name is " The Chins" according to the way people behave in English upper classes ( : chin up).

Thse people like hunting, go to some specific schools, get married between people of the same social rank...They are cut from the reality of the real world, a bit despective and have a feeling of imopunity because of their social rank, and immaturity.




If someones whith better english and understanding franch could help I would be glad!
THank you
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  #215  
Old 01-21-2005, 09:40 PM
maryshawn's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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The whole incident just underscores Prince Harry's slide into what could end up being a disastrous life. Being 2nd is not such a good thing--look at how Princess Margaret was taken to task for leading a self-indulgent lifestyle for many years. And she didn't have the "is she legit?" rumor hanging over her head. I don't know what the solution is but clearly he doesn't look before he leaps, parties way too much for his own good and needs some responsibility handed off to him so he doesn't end up being a middle-aged caricature of the consummate self-indulgent royal. With so much on his side in the way of privilege and entre to any circles he wants.....OK, he's still young and thus not fully formed in terms of judgement.....there are far better uses of his time than this. Lately, with the exception of time spent emulating his mother with orphans and underprivileged overseas, when I see him, in costume or not, he is often holding a drink in one hand and a cigarette in the other. His mother's brother, Earl Spencer, was nicknamed "Champagne Charlie" for awhile and showed similar poor judgement. Someone has to take this young man in hand--and, no, I don't think it is William's responsibility--help him "get a grip." Unfortunately, as I mentally survey the Windsors, I don't see many good candidates. Her Majesty is older as is the Duke of Edinburgh--plus they have a lot on their plates w/o Harry......it really needs to be Charles. I skimmed the thread.....anyone heard if he commented on the matter of the Nazi uniform or Harry in general?
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  #216  
Old 01-21-2005, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queenanne
Thank you, Reina and Sommone, for your replies.:) You have several good ideas that I hadn't thought of before. They shouldn't think racism is funny and if they do, they need to be taken in hand and corrected immediately. Also, reading what James said, what a horrible thing for someone to do, whether friend or foe! I suggest whole new social groups for Harry.:)
I agree, but the problem is, would anyone force him to get new friends? I don't think Charles could do it.
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  #217  
Old 01-21-2005, 11:22 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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Quote:
I skimmed the thread.....anyone heard if he commented on the matter of the Nazi uniform or Harry in general?
I don't think he has. In time-honoured tradition, it's being left to spokesmen to make statements. The last thing I heard (also from a Clarence House spokesman) was that a news blackout was being imposed as far as Harry's activities are concerned. Strikes me as a pretty stupid move; the media will take it as a challenge, and when there's a vacuum it'll be repalced by something, whether it's true or not.
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  #218  
Old 01-23-2005, 12:42 PM
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More fall-out from Harry's Nazi joke. The following editorial appeared in This Scunthorpe, an affiliate of the Daily Telegraph:

ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF ROYAL FAMILY'S FAILURES
12:30 - 22 January 2005
Prince Harry has proved what I already knew - the royal family are a bunch of overindulged and uneducated people.

I would like to know how someone who has had years of the best education money could buy decided to wear an outfit which is a symbol of evil. I would like to know what he was really taught about World War Two and our Empire days (of which we should never be proud).

The argument his mother was killed is no excuse, as many lose parents and yet don't wear the uniform of the fascist state.

I accept some act out. However, to offend the memories of millions who have died, is a great affront of humanity.

If a Premiership footballer allegedly smoked pot and wore the uniform of the evil Nazi regime, then the public would rightfully call for this person to be sacked, while getting on their moral high horse and talking about the downfall of society through yob culture.

However, when the Prince does the same thing, people make excuses for him like he is this innocent person.

Maybe those who complain about yob culture should take a look at the Prince and demand he be prosecuted for any things that are illegal, and severely punished for the things he does which are yobbish, instead of having his position get in the way.

Harry has never publicly apologised for his actions.

Instead he issued a statement and left it at that, while the media went to his defence.

He is in line for the throne and technically could be a future king.

Therefore he should give up all possible royal positions and not be allowed to enter the army as a commanding officer.

Harry should make immediate amends by visiting Auschwitz and come in front of the world to apologise for any offence, because this has gone global.

Also, Harry has put the nail in the coffin for any chance we had of getting the Olympic Games (and rightfully so).

Thanks you stupid, stupid boy.

Finally, this is just a prime example of the failures of the royal family, which the young of this country no longer respect.

So the question is, when will this country wave goodbye to the archaic regime of the monarchy and embrace the trueness of democracy we hold dear within our very hearts?

Don't worry it will happen.

Joseph Dylong

Revesby Avenue, Scunthorpe
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  #219  
Old 01-23-2005, 03:33 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
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I suppose it's inevitable that republican sympathisers will seize this incident and use it against the monarchy in general, but I wonder what this person thinks will happen to Harry if he isn't allowed to go to Sandhurst as a result of that party. If he doesn't have something constructive and challenging to do with his life, he'll just start drifting and his problems will get worse, and those very same people who demanded he not go to Sandhurst will be complaining that he has no discipline in his life.

If this incident has any effect whatever on the choice of the Olympic venue, that would be idiotic.
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  #220  
Old 01-23-2005, 03:50 PM
Donna B.'s Avatar
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Hello all!:)

The republican sympathizers really didn't seize this incident...it was handed to them on a silver platter. Harry seems to be doing that a lot lately, giving republicans fodder. If he behaved, they wouldn't have anything.

Someone posted that Harry should join the Army as a regular enlisted man and start his career that way. I wish I could remember who that was and give them credit...I wholeheartedly agree. Harry doesn't deserve to be admitted to Sandhurst now, he needs more humble beginnings in the Army to really get a grip on reality imo. Anyone else would have been given the boot by now. IF, that's a big IF, lol, the article about two new injuries popping up for the otherwise busy, busy young man, then he won't be going anyway....maybe?

Donna B.
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