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  #6861  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:19 AM
Osipi's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hel View Post
Apparently Dickie Arbiter is peddling the line (to the Australian media, perhaps because he knows how far he'd get with the British media) that if they were to get married, Meghan couldn't be an HRH or have a title because she's American. He went on to say that if she were fast-tracked for citizenship, that would cause a political issue.

https://twitter.com/sunriseon7/statu...69396373012480

They raised the spectre of Wallis Simpson, but given that George VI had to issue Letters Patent to ensure that she was *not* an HRH, the example rather seems to undermine Dickie's argument.
I don't think we can compare Meghan's situation to Wallis'. It was even debated at the time of the abdication whether or not David (Edward VIII) would remain a HRH and a prince of the UK after the abdication and there has been discussion of this issue elsewhere on TRF.

With Meghan, if she married Harry, she most certainly could be titled at as HRH and a princess of the UK. In the UK. Her titles and styles may not be recognized in the US as an American citizen because American citizenship doesn't allow for titles from foreign countries. This is as I understand it. Its possible though that Meghan could have dual citizenship in both the US and the UK and her UK titles and styles would then be recognized.

I'm sure that the powers that be that really know this stuff will be busy at work making sure that the ins and outs of it all will be made perfectly clear. Its possible too that Meghan will drop her US citizenship and just become a citizen of the UK. All this remains to be seen.
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  #6862  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I don't think we can compare Meghan's situation to Wallis'. It was even debated at the time of the abdication whether or not David (Edward VIII) would remain a HRH and a prince of the UK after the abdication and there has been discussion of this issue elsewhere on TRF.

With Meghan, if she married Harry, she most certainly could be titled at as HRH and a princess of the UK. In the UK. Her titles and styles may not be recognized in the US as an American citizen because American citizenship doesn't allow for titles from foreign countries. This is as I understand it. Its possible though that Meghan could have dual citizenship in both the US and the UK and her UK titles and styles would then be recognized.

I'm sure that the powers that be that really know this stuff will be busy at work making sure that the ins and outs of it all will be made perfectly clear. Its possible too that Meghan will drop her US citizenship and just become a citizen of the UK. All this remains to be seen.
That's right. I wish people would stop trying to compare Meghan to Wallis. That was a totally different issue and a different time.

I'm also sure everything will be worked out ahead of any wedding. People have to wait to see if we will get there first.
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  #6863  
Old 07-10-2017, 03:26 AM
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Trevor Engelson to pen book on ex Meghan Markle | Now To Love

If true, and I say if, her ex-husband is no gentleman if he does a tell-all book, supposedly being offered a million $/£.

He has been very quite thus far, so time will tell.

I do believe an Engagement could be a possibility, and she seems a lovely girl.
  #6864  
Old 07-10-2017, 06:09 AM
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If Meghan's ex-husband talks he is no better than James Hewitt. He'll come of as a bitter ex, and he may fabricate a few facts to up the price. And if the ex goes there the press will have license to deep into his background.

The HRH styling - I believe that is up to the sovereign to confer the designation or take it away. Queen Elizabeth took away HRH from Diana and Fergie when they divorced. I also believe as princess of Monaco the U.S. recognized the HSH for Grace Kelly.
  #6865  
Old 07-10-2017, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnsha View Post
No one is saying that we are not interested in Meghan - we would not be on this forum! However, there are just some sources that have shown that they are unreliable. I think that members of this forum, appreciate having a place to express ourselves, without having to deal with the trash that's present, in all of the other Prince Harry/Meghan outlets. There is enough nastiness out there.
I pointed out how I happened across that site, why I shared the link and quoted specific passages, which again includes positive information stemming from when the news first broke about M&H dating. I'm not familiar with that site and I have no interest in frequenting it, but I did find some of the specific info I quoted interesting. And some of it, we've heard before whether true or not, about Harry bombarding Meghan with texts after they met. If he did or if he didn't matters not. But if he did, it is rather romantic.

What I quoted was gossip, but some of it has been mentioned quite often, unlike the made-up trivia and absolute nonsense that Daily Fail prints daily. Or the nasty negative offensiveness that DF, The Sun, and ExpressUK often deliver that has no basis in reality (such as the crazy 'bum war' headline, the recent screwball diary, and suggestions that Meghan is 'trying on wedding dresses' -- she did that for Suits, but there's no reason at this point to believe she's doing it for herself in real life).

It is quite wonderful to share interests and opinions on a positive and genuinely straightforward site such as this. But seriously, it's not as if links to unconfirmed and unreliable sources are not posted here every day. If everything posted was completely reliable and non-gossipy, then no one would be posting links to the Daily Fail and other sketchy British tabloids, etc.

Most of what we all are doing is gossiping, but in a positive, celebratory way. Except of course for those here who are not happy about M&H dating.

And alas, clearly the prurient interest and tabloid negativity has never abated and unfortunately is only seeming to ratchet up with this latest unconfirmed news linked above about the possibility of Meghan's former husband considering accepting a tell-all book deal. If true, indeed he's no gentleman. I hope this Trevor story is not true, and that he will continue to remain quiet and respect his former wife. ETA: If the source is a National Enquirer type publication, then it likely is not true. The blurb only says he was offered one million, and that 'the price is now right,' which means nothing. There's no confirmation of quotes by Engelson, only a mysterious 'source' who is said to be quoting Engelson. The only male person I'm aware of whom Meghan has been very close to on the Suits set is her platonic friend Rick Hoffman (whose Suits character is Louis Litt). She's also platonic friends with Patrick J. Adams.

Much of this is just relentless trashy tabloid behavior, but the efforts to cash in on Meghan's connection to Prince Harry is bottom-of-the-barrel reprehensible. The tabloids obviously have been trying to get negative information for a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if there were journalists and others who are specifically interested in tearing Meghan down so as to try and break-up her relationship with Harry. Dickie Arbiter certainly has it in for Meghan. I hope such vultures do not succeed. I hope Meghan and Harry remain strong and steadfast in their commitment.
  #6866  
Old 07-10-2017, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angieuk View Post
Trevor Engelson to pen book on ex Meghan Markle | Now To Love

If true, and I say if, her ex-husband is no gentleman if he does a tell-all book, supposedly being offered a million $/£.

He has been very quite thus far, so time will tell.
This magazine is not credible. It is similar to the national enquirer. Also one million to write a tell all book about a girl the 5th in line to the throne is just dating seems somewhat excessive.

I find the whole concept of anyone writing a book about Meghan to be somewhat premature. Even the 24 page daily fail special edition was just rehashing the same garbage & old interviews. Not much is known about this couple & it is not certain it will end in marriage, and if it doesn't then any book becomes worthless. I doubt even her crazy half sister has a publisher for her book.
  #6867  
Old 07-10-2017, 07:31 AM
Osipi's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
The HRH styling - I believe that is up to the sovereign to confer the designation or take it away. Queen Elizabeth took away HRH from Diana and Fergie when they divorced. I also believe as princess of Monaco the U.S. recognized the HSH for Grace Kelly.
The Queen removed the HRH status from Diana and Sarah upon their divorce and I assume that with the letters patent of August 21, 1996 issued at the time, the same would apply should any of the spouses of British princes divorce.

As far as Grace Kelley and her HSH title, it was reported in the Saturday Evening Post that:

"Marriages into nobility often raise the question of whether Americans can hold foreign titles. Federal laws permit dual citizenship, and even allow American citizens to retain titles from foreign countries. However, such titles have no legal significance; royal privileges in a foreign land only get a nod of diplomatic recognition in this country."

The Royal Role of Grace Kelly | The Saturday Evening Post

I would imagine that what applied to Princess Grace of Monaco would also apply to Meghan should she marry Harry and hold dual citizenship in both the US and the UK.

ETA: On another point where Wallis Simpson, the Duke of Windsor and the HRH title is concerned, after the abdication, George VI issued letters patent that specifically restored the HRH to the Duke of Windsor with provisions.

"27 May 1937 (letters patent dated), confer the style of HRH to the Duke of Windsor and exclude his wife and descendants if any"

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/brit...ing_lp1937.htm
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  #6868  
Old 07-10-2017, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
I started watching Suits because of Meghan and now it's a favorite show- I can't wait until the new episode airs Wednesday.
We used to watch Suits but after about 3 series stopped watching it, I have started watching some on catch up recently and managed to get back into it but now the UK channel provider has decided to drop it - grr, really hope another channel picks it up
  #6869  
Old 07-10-2017, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hel View Post
Apparently Dickie Arbiter is peddling the line (to the Australian media, perhaps because he knows how far he'd get with the British media) that if they were to get married, Meghan couldn't be an HRH or have a title because she's American. He went on to say that if she were fast-tracked for citizenship, that would cause a political issue.

https://twitter.com/sunriseon7/statu...69396373012480

They raised the spectre of Wallis Simpson, but given that George VI had to issue Letters Patent to ensure that she was *not* an HRH, the example rather seems to undermine Dickie's argument.
I didn't see the tweet, but that sounds odd to me. British princes have married foreign European princesses for ages and that was never a issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The Queen removed the HRH status from Diana and Sarah upon their divorce and I assume that with the letters patent of August 21, 1996 issued at the time, the same would apply should any of the spouses of British princes divorce.

As far as Grace Kelley and her HSH title, it was reported in the Saturday Evening Post that:

"Marriages into nobility often raise the question of whether Americans can hold foreign titles. Federal laws permit dual citizenship, and even allow American citizens to retain titles from foreign countries. However, such titles have no legal significance; royal privileges in a foreign land only get a nod of diplomatic recognition in this country."

The Royal Role of Grace Kelly | The Saturday Evening Post

I would imagine that what applied to Princess Grace of Monaco would also apply to Meghan should she marry Harry and hold dual citizenship in both the US and the UK.

ETA: On another point where Wallis Simpson, the Duke of Windsor and the HRH title is concerned, after the abdication, George VI issued letters patent that specifically restored the HRH to the Duke of Windsor with provisions.

"27 May 1937 (letters patent dated), confer the style of HRH to the Duke of Windsor and exclude his wife and descendants if any"

The drafting of the letters patent of 1937

There is a common misconception among Americans that U.S. citizens are not allowed to have foreign titles. What the US constitution says though is just that no person holding a public office in the United States can accept a title from a foreign king, prince, or state without the consent of the US Congress. The constitution also says that neither the United States properly, nor any of the individual states can grant titles of nobility. THere is no bar, however, on a private citizen holding a foreign title as several Americans did in the past and still do today.

Since foreign titles are not legally recognized domestically, you can't use them though on US documents like a driver's license or a passport. That is why Princess Leonore for example is simply "Leonore O'Neill" (or something like that) on her US passport.
  #6870  
Old 07-10-2017, 09:33 AM
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Since [under British law] 'a wife takes the style, rank and dignity of her husband', I fail to see why this is an issue ?
  #6871  
Old 07-10-2017, 09:40 AM
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It's safe to say, if there's a marriage and Meghan does not receive the title of HRH, that's where the major backlash will come in. I don't think this will happen, because she will be given her due title on her wedding day.
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  #6872  
Old 07-10-2017, 09:52 AM
Osipi's Avatar
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I don't see it happening or even it even being discussed in any conversation of the powers that be that Meghan, upon marriage to Harry, would be anything other that HRH Princess Henry, Duchess of XXX. Anything else would deem the marriage morganatic and that simply isn't done in the UK.

Meghan will, like all royal brides, take her titles and styles from her husband should they marry.

The case of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor was a one off thing and cannot serve as a precedence. That event confounded, confused and left the entire royal household, the government and the people totally befuddled. What they went around and around about what to do makes for an interesting study though.
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  #6873  
Old 07-10-2017, 10:31 AM
MaiaMia_53's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I don't think we can compare Meghan's situation to Wallis'. It was even debated at the time of the abdication whether or not David (Edward VIII) would remain a HRH and a prince of the UK after the abdication and there has been discussion of this issue elsewhere on TRF.

With Meghan, if she married Harry, she most certainly could be titled at as HRH and a princess of the UK. In the UK. Her titles and styles may not be recognized in the US as an American citizen because American citizenship doesn't allow for titles from foreign countries. This is as I understand it. Its possible though that Meghan could have dual citizenship in both the US and the UK and her UK titles and styles would then be recognized.

I'm sure that the powers that be that really know this stuff will be busy at work making sure that the ins and outs of it all will be made perfectly clear. Its possible too that Meghan will drop her US citizenship and just become a citizen of the UK. All this remains to be seen.
Thanks for clarifying and bringing sense to the irrational. As you say, there's no comparison whatsoever to the situation with Wallis Simpson. And clearly the hosts of this show, as well as Dickie Arbiter, are simply trying to stir something up. Look at Arbiter's expression after the blond host salaciously throws in that bit about 'scandalous' Wallis Simpson being an American. Why don't they do a show about all the rich Americans whom titled Brits married historically. That would be a story with some substance!

This stuff about what title Meghan will or will not be given I doubt matters very much to Harry or to Meghan. Harry has already pointed out that although he respects the traditions he was born into, he doesn't live to be a prince. What matters is how they feel about each other, and their hopes and dreams for building a meaningful life together. All the protocol and title details are less than secondary and will be worked out in due time as a matter of course, should they announce an engagement to be married.

Dickie Arbiter and these hosts with their jealousy & hoity-toity 'tude need to be set straight that if Meghan decides to marry Prince Harry, she's not marrying him for a royal title. She doesn't need HRH designation. It's just that the guy she fell in love with happens to be a Brit royal prince. The class and substance Meghan brings to Harry and the 'royal firm' is worth more than mere titles anyway.
  #6874  
Old 07-10-2017, 11:10 AM
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Very odd Dickie Arbiter would go on morning tv and peddle clearly wrong info. Judging by his previous twitter comments he doesn't seem to be a fan of Meghan. I would think his credibility and professional reputation would be more important than his bias against the relationship.
  #6875  
Old 07-10-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
The class and substance Meghan brings to Harry and the 'royal firm' is worth more than mere titles anyway.
'Substance' perhaps to Harry, but the firm has centuries of class and substance ALREADY...[with or without her].
  #6876  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:00 PM
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Usually when I've heard the name Dickie Arbiter, it clicks in my mind as "credible source". He's been around the royal scene for a very long time.

So.... I went back and checked the link. Unfortunately, I couldn't listen to Mr. Arbiter's commentary as it isn't closed captioned but I did notice that the large lettered "tweet" was not ascribed to Dickie but to the Sun. Perhaps somewhere along the lines what Mr. Arbiter stated and what was tweeted got mixed up? I can't believe someone as credible as Dickie Arbiter would make such a foolish mistake to state that Meghan wouldn't get any title. He should know better. Could someone listen and post exactly what he did say?

I seriously don't believe that anyone (and I mean *anyone*) that is close to Harry and would have an inkling of what his plans are, whether he's going to propose or dye his hair purple would break the circle of trust and leak it to the press. As is stated, "rumor has it". Anyone can dream up a rumor, give it arms and legs and wings to fly but that doesn't necessarily mean that its going to happen.

Facts. We have to remember we're interested in facts and not take rumor and speculation and whatever else the press can dream up to keep "interest" in Harry's situation alive as stuff worth repeating. This is the kind of pressure that happened back in 1980 when another prospective royal bride hit the scene and through their machinations, actually put pressure on the couple to marry. We all know how that turned out too. Hopefully both Harry and Meghan are wise and astute enough to just ignore it all and do as they will in their own way in their own time.
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  #6877  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen E View Post
This magazine is not credible. It is similar to the national enquirer. Also one million to write a tell all book about a girl the 5th in line to the throne is just dating seems somewhat excessive.

I find the whole concept of anyone writing a book about Meghan to be somewhat premature. Even the 24 page daily fail special edition was just rehashing the same garbage & old interviews. Not much is known about this couple & it is not certain it will end in marriage, and if it doesn't then any book becomes worthless. I doubt even her crazy half sister has a publisher for her book.
Right 1 mill for a girl who at the moment is just dating not engaged or married to the 5th in line?! Besides Trevor seems happy and has a new tv show he is producing, why would he want to sully his rep with a creepy tell all book?
  #6878  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:19 PM
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Hi all! I'm new to this forum and posting for the first time. I've been an avid Suits fan for a long time and actually developed an interest in the British Royals through the Meghan Markle connection.

Based on my knowledge of the Suits schedule, I have constructed my own hypothesis regarding a possible engagement announcement. Last season, a lead character, Gina Torres was written out of the show in the 10th episode of season 6. They will finish filming the first 10 episodes of season 7 by the end of the month. The 10th episode will air on September 13th. I'm guessing Rachel Zane will be written out somewhere around that episode. Just in time for an announcement before the Invictus Games kick off on September 26th.

I also find it fascinating that we can somewhat trace the history of this relationship by analyzing Suits. The back 6 episodes of Season 6 were filmed from Sept-Nov 2016. There is not a single kissing scene between MM and her on screen fiance. This is highly irregular for this show. Even more interesting is the last episode filmed before the 2016 summer hiatus (se06 ep10), in July 2016. There is a deleted scene on youtube which shows MM passionately kissing her "fiance". This scene was replaced by a very platonic interaction. My guess is that the relationship was very serious by then.
  #6879  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
'Substance' perhaps to Harry, but the firm has centuries of class and substance ALREADY...[with or without her].
Don't you know wyevale? Meghan is the classiest, kindest,smartest, most accomplished woman who ever lived. Everyone pales in comparison.You must have missed her long form resume that frequently gets posted in this thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Usually when I've heard the name Dickie Arbiter, it clicks in my mind as "credible source". He's been around the royal scene for a very long time.

So.... I went back and checked the link. Unfortunately, I couldn't listen to Mr. Arbiter's commentary as it isn't closed captioned but I did notice that the large lettered "tweet" was not ascribed to Dickie but to the Sun. Perhaps somewhere along the lines what Mr. Arbiter stated and what was tweeted got mixed up? I can't believe someone as credible as Dickie Arbiter would make such a foolish mistake to state that Meghan wouldn't get any title. He should know better. Could someone listen and post exactly what he did say?

I seriously don't believe that anyone (and I mean *anyone*) that is close to Harry and would have an inkling of what his plans are, whether he's going to propose or dye his hair purple would break the circle of trust and leak it to the press. As is stated, "rumor has it". Anyone can dream up a rumor, give it arms and legs and wings to fly but that doesn't necessarily mean that its going to happen.

Facts. We have to remember we're interested in facts and not take rumor and speculation and whatever else the press can dream up to keep "interest" in Harry's situation alive as stuff worth repeating. This is the kind of pressure that happened back in 1980 when another prospective royal bride hit the scene and through their machinations, actually put pressure on the couple to marry. We all know how that turned out too. Hopefully both Harry and Meghan are wise and astute enough to just ignore it all and do as they will in their own way in their own time.
He said "The issue is Meghan is an American. Nothing wrong with being American. But Harry is an HRH and as an American , she can't be an HRH because you don't get titles. You don't even get a courtesy title. "
  #6880  
Old 07-10-2017, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanyT View Post
Very odd Dickie Arbiter would go on morning tv and peddle clearly wrong info. Judging by his previous twitter comments he doesn't seem to be a fan of Meghan. I would think his credibility and professional reputation would be more important than his bias against the relationship.
its just very odd considering the fact that Princess Michael is not from the UK but she holds a title also Wallis Simpson held a title as well. Many American's marry into royal families around the world and take on the appropriate title. Arbiter just does not like her which is fine but don't lie about it.
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