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  #6301  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
There is no evidence, pre wedding, Meghan hat met the kids or even William and Kate. The adults likely. But the kids are usually at Amner.

We're not talking family who lives close. Peter and Zara both have their own families, jobs, lives outside London. They likely have heard plenty.

The yorks are more likely to have met her. Why? Not simply because they live in London. But because they are young, Single and move in the same social circles. They have many friends in common with Harry. If Harry was having a group of friends over for dinner, or going out for a drink on the town, they are the more likely to be invited. Not to mention available.

You usually introduce a date to friends first. Wait till family till more serious. Most circles, if you didn't introduce your new partner to your buds, they'd joke she or he was invisible. So yes, no doubt she has rubbed elbows more then the wedding and polo, with his friends. But that doesn't equal also meeting family.
There's a picture from the polo of William about 10 feet away from H&M, so I'd feel confident that William met her pre-wedding.
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  #6302  
Old 06-07-2017, 09:57 AM
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What I'm saying is they know who's he's dating. Yes, William and Catherine have met Meghan. The girl was at polo with Harry and William not that long ago folks. She just attended Pippa's wedding party. I dont know why people are so uptight about his family knowing her. They know who he's dating and some have met her. It's not like he's got her hiding in some sort of closet when she's with him.
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  #6303  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
It seems to me that with William and Harry being the only children of Charles (at some point, King Charles III), both sons hold a great deal of importance that places them each at the forefront of the future of the royal family.
I agree. If we look at the Queen's children, it is Charles and Anne who have always shared the burdens of the workload for their parent. I think the same will happen, and more so with just two sons. Harry will be like Anne methinks.

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Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
I would guess that with Prince Harry being so popular and highly visible (and again, the second son of only two children of a future monarch), his engagement announcement will receive notable attention. Harry's eventual wedding will also be one of the last high profile royal weddings for at least three decades or so.

I'm betting at least a formal announcement with a brief photo opportunity and engagement interview followed at some point by a brief television interview. Why would they significantly low profile an engagement announcement with Prince Harry being so gregarious, and Meghan so articulate and used to being in front of cameras? There will be a great deal of interest as well 'on the other side of the pond,' what with Meghan being an American.
Agree. Good points. Especially given she is American. Lots of interest.
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  #6304  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
What I'm saying is they know who's he's dating. Yes, William and Catherine have met Meghan. The girl was at polo with Harry and William not that long ago folks. She just attended Pippa's wedding party. I dont know why people are so uptight about his family knowing her. They know who he's dating and some have met her. It's not like he's got her hiding in some sort of closet when she's with him.

I think most people agree she's met W&K (probably the kids) and his inner circle...Mike has said he hasn't met her ...we don't know about the rest.

I would be surprised if she's met the Queen/DoE. Charles, maybe.


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  #6305  
Old 06-07-2017, 10:52 AM
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Don't know about The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh. I'm sure they know of her though.
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  #6306  
Old 06-07-2017, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
What I'm saying is they know who's he's dating. Yes, William and Catherine have met Meghan. The girl was at polo with Harry and William not that long ago folks. She just attended Pippa's wedding party. I dont know why people are so uptight about his family knowing her. They know who he's dating and some have met her. It's not like he's got her hiding in some sort of closet when she's with him.


Some people are determined that this relationship isn't serious and that members of the BRF would only meet a serious girlfriend of Harry's. It's like there's supposed to be a bubble around the Cambridges, Charles/Camilla, the Queen/DoE, etc, where those who are unworthy (or not yet worthy) to meet them never pass into it.

This is despite the fact that there are many indications that this is a serious relationship, that Harry is fairly close to his brother, and really it's fairly unusual for your girlfriend of almost a year to have not met family members (even if they're not doing so in the public eye).

It's all just an attempt to put the Cambridges on a higher pedestal while diminishing Harry and Meghan's relationship.
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  #6307  
Old 06-07-2017, 11:09 AM
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Don't know about The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh. I'm sure they know of her though.
Oh I am sure they know of her...and I bet Harry has talked to all of them about her.


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  #6308  
Old 06-07-2017, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
So, you feel that Harry is alone in the middle, neither at the 'absolute center'/ forefront, nor at the fringes?
No, I certainly don't think he's the only one in the middle.

The monarch and direct heirs will always be the absolute center. We've already been given very strong indications of what role/treatment is planned for Will and Harry's cousins. The big question going forward into the next few decades is what's in store for folks like Anne, Andrew, Edward, Sophie and, yes, Harry. Right now he's still the fashionable, exciting, young one. He certainly gets a lot of press. But what are the plans internal to the royal family for what status, what role, what expectations and what treatment are attached to a second son in a streamlined version of The Firm?

I'm just saying that we tend talk a lot about it as though we know what's in store but we don't, really. It's the milestone events that speak volumes about what the family has decided the new pecking order to be, and if Harry does get married soon then we'll have a milestone to help us better understand where things stand for him.
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  #6309  
Old 06-07-2017, 01:59 PM
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Re: Zara and Mike meeting Meghan...

The whirlwind of Harry's romance and Meghan's time actually being able to be in London coincided with Zara's miscarriage. For a lot of women, that's a time when you sort of hole up in your house and cry things out with your husband for a while. No matter how close you are to your cousin, it may not be the ideal time to meet his girlfriend over dinner or whatever.
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  #6310  
Old 06-07-2017, 04:20 PM
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Does it really matter who has met who? Many times, extended family members such as aunts and uncles and cousins by the dozens don't meet a potential spouse until the actual wedding day. I've seen this happen so many times in the people around me.

It makes sense that Mike Tindall hasn't met Meghan yet at all. I don't recall reading anywhere where Mike and Harry are on each other's radar socially. Harry and Meghan are in a long distance relationship right now where the time they do have to spend together is limited and they mostly want to spend their time together and not going about socializing as they would be if they lived and worked living in the same vicinity.
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  #6311  
Old 06-07-2017, 05:12 PM
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There's clearly no official confirmation of much of anything. Just because Mike Tindall indicates he has not yet met Meghan does not necessarily follow that Zara has not yet had an opportunity to meet her cousin Harry's girlfriend.

Plus, there have been a number of reports (again unofficial) that Harry has already introduced Meghan to Will, Kate, Prince George & Princess Charlotte. William surely has already met Meghan several times. There was an earlier report that Harry sometime in March introduced Meghan to Kate and Princess Charlotte, and more recently to Prince George on a separate occasion. I happen to believe that Meghan has also met Prince Charles, and that Harry may have met one or both of Meghan's parents. None of this meeting of family members of a 'significant other' should be seen as impossible or unusual!

Let's not forget that Meghan likely met most of the Middleton family members and relatives at Pippa's after-party. William and Kate were there too, so if you believe Meghan hadn't already met the adult Cambridges before the party, she surely has now.

In my opinion, William previously was introduced to Meghan by Harry (likely at NottCott) prior to them seeing each other again at the polo match, and at Pippa's after-party, if not at additional private get-togethers the public and the media are not privy to knowing anything about.

Prince Harry privately introducing his steady girfriend to friends and close family members is not such a huge deal to look upon with doubt and circumspection. Prince George and Princess Charlotte are brought to KP on occasion. Obviously, there's a lot we don't know about the private personal time and comings and goings of members of the British royal family amidst their private residences.

As far as the York sisters, there have been reports that Eugenie has met Meghan and they've gone out together with their respective boyfriends. I haven't read anything about Beatrice meeting Meghan.

As far as M&H's relationship being 'serious,' it reached that stage IMHO, a long time ago despite the relatively short time they have been dating. Therefore, I don't doubt that Meghan began to be introduced to Harry's closest friends by early last fall and increasingly during the winter months. M&H already had mutual acquaintances in common before they met at Soho House. And there has also been ample time and opportunity for Meghan to have been introduced to both Prince Charles and Prince William prior to her reportedly meeting Duchess Kate and Princess Charlotte in March, and Prince George sometime later. I don't see any reason to disbelieve that with all the time Meghan and Harry have spent together in London that she wouldn't have had occasion to meet Harry's immediate family members, friends and a few cousins (with the exception at this stage of his grandparents, probably).
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  #6312  
Old 06-07-2017, 05:30 PM
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Good reasoning MaiaMia_53.

It really does point out in black and white that the private lives of very public people are beyond our scope of knowing. Any normal couple that has headed into a serious relationship don't remain forever enshrined in a butterfly cocoon until they emerge as an engaged couple. Private relationships don't stand on formality and there's no pecking order of whom to meet, when to meet them and just how to go about doing so. For all we know, Meghan could have gone with Harry to Balmoral to pitch the Walking with the Wounded event that's upcoming and has had tea with Granny. We just don't know and we're not likely to ever know.

We, the public, are the last on their list to be "informed" of how the relationship is progressing, what their plans are and how they're going to be implemented. When it comes to the "need to know" details of things, we're at the very bottom of the heap and to be honest, we don't matter in the plans of things to come.

Harry is well aware of what his engagement and subsequent marriage entails and once they do go public with an announcement, they know everything and everything will be a focus by the public who will want to celebrate Harry's happiness with him.

At least I did get something right on the money. Before Meghan became known, I was of the opinion that Harry needed a dog. I've stated it often. What I didn't know is that in finding two dogs he really had an affinity for, they would come with a beautiful woman that could end up being his life partner.
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  #6313  
Old 06-07-2017, 05:51 PM
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Thanks @Osipi. ITA! Common sense and good humor always seem to make rational sense.

Something tells me that a number of the current royals have had to develop more than their fair share of common sense and good humor! They would probably shake their heads and roll their eyes at some of our torturous turns of discussion here, eh. Thanks for conjuring up that delightful picture of Prince Harry basking in the comfort of Meghan's home cooking while helping to feed and play with her sweet and loving dogs, Guy and Bogart! Indeed Prince Harry seems to have an extra spring in his step these days, as well as an extra brightness to his smile.


Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
No, I certainly don't think he's the only one in the middle.

The monarch and direct heirs will always be the absolute center. We've already been given very strong indications of what role/treatment is planned for Will and Harry's cousins. The big question going forward into the next few decades is what's in store for folks like Anne, Andrew, Edward, Sophie and, yes, Harry. Right now he's still the fashionable, exciting, young one. He certainly gets a lot of press. But what are the plans internal to the royal family for what status, what role, what expectations and what treatment are attached to a second son in a streamlined version of The Firm? ...
Eh, but you are mixing metaphors and subject matter, which tends to confuse what point you are trying to make. Sure there's validity to some of what you are saying, but you are lumping a bunch of topics together. Bottom line, you earlier stated that you didn't feel Harry was at the 'absolute center,' nor at the fringes of the royal firm, which would seem to leave him in your estimation in some kind of undefined limbo because of Prince Charles' rumblings about desiring to streamline the 'firm.'

I would argue that Prince Charles' desire to streamline the Brit royal firm is NOT intended to sideline his second son Prince Harry, in any way shape or form. Of course Prince William and Prince George, as he comes of age, will take precedence in terms of the traditional and highly regarded stature and burdens of direct royal inheritance. However, Prince Harry currently carries out and will continue to be charged with important and significant royal duties as a backup to his grandparents, to his father, to his brother, and to his brother's children. I don't see any scenario in which Prince Harry, as a deeply beloved personality within the confines of his immediate family and among the general public, will become less popular or unpopular. For example, it can be argued that Princess Anne and Prince Andrew (the Duke of York), and even Prince Edward for that matter, have never been exceptionally popular either individually or collectively (regardless of their few periods of favorable high profile media coverage). So their respective fading into the background in terms of visibility and 'popularity' is unremarkable.

Some issues are common sense. I don't believe there's any huge question about the role Prince Harry will play in the royal family going forward, particularly since he's the second son in a two-child family of a future monarch! Of course as Prince William's children come of age, Prince Harry's current royal backup role will become less 'front and center.' Harry has even spoken of looking forward to that eventual evolution. However, by that time, Harry will likely have established a number of important social and humanitarian initiatives that will continue to keep him busy beyond an increasingly lessening high profile public role. This is entirely understandable and hardly unusual, especially as one begins to age and take on a less prominent role outside of the huge spotlight of supporting the wearer of the crown, currently HM Queen Elizabeth II.

The question of what's in store for royals 'on the fringe,' to coin your phrase, once Prince Charles inherits the throne, is I think separate in many ways from reflections on Prince Harry's current and future role within the family 'firm.'
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  #6314  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
No, I certainly don't think he's the only one in the middle.

The monarch and direct heirs will always be the absolute center. We've already been given very strong indications of what role/treatment is planned for Will and Harry's cousins. The big question going forward into the next few decades is what's in store for folks like Anne, Andrew, Edward, Sophie and, yes, Harry. Right now he's still the fashionable, exciting, young one. He certainly gets a lot of press. But what are the plans internal to the royal family for what status, what role, what expectations and what treatment are attached to a second son in a streamlined version of The Firm?

I'm just saying that we tend talk a lot about it as though we know what's in store but we don't, really. It's the milestone events that speak volumes about what the family has decided the new pecking order to be, and if Harry does get married soon then we'll have a milestone to help us better understand where things stand for him.
I hardly think Charles or William would put Anne, Andrew and the Wessexes out to pasture. As the Kents (the Duke and Princess Alexandra) and Gloucesters retire they will need the Queen's other children to still fill in the gaps. Charles, Camilla and the Cambridges, even with Harry's help, can't do it all themselves. Right now there are 15 adults doing a mix of full and part time royal duties.
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  #6315  
Old 06-07-2017, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I hardly think Charles or William would put Anne, Andrew and the Wessexes out to pasture. As the Kents (the Duke and Princess Alexandra) and Gloucesters retire they will need the Queen's other children to still fill in the gaps. Charles, Camilla and the Cambridges, even with Harry's help, can't do it all themselves. Right now there are 15 adults doing a mix of full and part time royal duties.
There really is a simple solution to finding out what Charles or any monarch will do and its the best one I can think of. Wait and see what happens.

We actually have no clue if there will be a monarchy five years from now let alone a planet on which a monarchy would reside within a kingdom as there are unstable people in this world that would like nothing better than to fire off a nuclear warhead to stroke their own egos and send us all back into the stone age.

Harry's relationship though at this present time is something that is worth pondering and musing over and we scan for any news to reinforce our own opinions of where it could be heading. Harry has definitely been shown in recent pictures to be a very, very happy guy which indicates that all is well in his world.
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  #6316  
Old 06-07-2017, 08:59 PM
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I agree with both your takes @Osipi and @O-H Anglophile. None of what either of you are saying is in any way contradictory. Yes, we have to wait and see what actions King Charles III will actually take in regard to 'streamlining,' which can have a variety of interpretations. And he may see things differently once he's actually on the throne bearing the full weight of the crown, and all that entails.

No 'streamlining' measures are going to affect Prince Harry's importance to the crown, either now or in the immediate future.

And most definitely @Osipi, we can't be certain where the world is headed at this point. Surely Prince Charles and HM The Queen mindfully desire their young progeny to take tight and permanent hold of whatever happiness is possible for them in this uncertain day and age.

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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
Re: Zara and Mike meeting Meghan...
The whirlwind of Harry's romance and Meghan's time actually being able to be in London coincided with Zara's miscarriage. For a lot of women, that's a time when you sort of hole up in your house and cry things out with your husband for a while. No matter how close you are to your cousin, it may not be the ideal time to meet his girlfriend over dinner or whatever.
Yes, in terms of the chronology of those circumstances, it's possible that Zara hasn't yet met her cousin Harry's girlfriend. On the other hand, Zara Phillips does not strike me as having a personality that would lead her to handle personal crises by long term 'holing up in her house and crying things out with her husband.' Of course losing a baby is a very devastating personal experience which every woman and her partner and family probably handle differently. Still, Zara strikes me as having an upbeat, no-nonsense personality that is quite similar to her mother's. Remember how Princess Anne once stared down the attempted kidnapper who was holding a gun to her face!

For all we know, Zara took some quiet time with her husband, perhaps also with her mother and her in-laws, and then put the devastation to rest in a personally redemptive way without having to resort to days of staying shut away in her room crying. Zara seems like a very extroverted doer and not someone who would keep herself locked in her bedroom for very long agonizing over what can't be changed. She also has a young daughter who must have been a source of great comfort during the immediate aftermath of the loss last December.

I am not intending to stray too far off-topic. I'm only suggesting that we don't know how soon Zara may have gotten back into visiting with close friends and family after her miscarriage. In terms of time frame, Zara could have already met Meghan this past March or April (maybe or maybe not). If so, perhaps Zara discussed the meeting with her husband Mike, who apparently hasn't yet met Meghan. Certainly, from his quoted comments, Mike seems eager to meet Meghan. In the long run, none of this blather over 'who met whom when' matters in the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
... I'm just saying that we tend talk a lot about it as though we know what's in store but we don't, really. It's the milestone events that speak volumes about what the family has decided the new pecking order to be...
I definitely agree that we speculate a lot about what we don't know and can't know for sure unless and until there is official confirmation. Still, as someone who enjoys following the royals, I believe there are signs, viable reports, and actual evidence of the serious nature of H&M's relationship. I try to take it all with a grain of salt and an overall sense of lightheartedness.

If they do announce an engagement and get married, there should be very happy and celebratory events in store. Even amidst all the terrible sadness and alarming gloom and doom going on in the world, I find the possibility of their apparent blossoming love and happiness to be something positive to contemplate. A genuine royal love story, especially between these two young and obviously caring and fun-loving individuals, I find uplifting, fresh, exciting, as well as old-fashioned, comforting and lovely to look forward to witnessing.

As far as that bit about pecking order, I have a feeling that such archaic rules regarding 'pecking order' are not uppermost in the minds of or daily concerns and aspirations of the younger royals. Issues of 'pecking order' do not seem to be a concern that motivates the younger royals to get up in the morning. I'm sure they all respect their status and the royal traditions that their grandmother represents and grew up bearing allegiance to, but I don't think Prince William nor Prince Harry who take the lead among the younger royals, feel the need to bend over backward in adherence to 'pecking order.' They probably poke fun at issues of 'pecking order,' while respecting and adhering to more revered royal traditions, royal duties, protocol, personal conduct, matters of state, etc. But neither William nor Harry apparently will allow any old-fashioned 'royal traditions' nor courtier interference to dictate their happiness and the choices that impact their intimate personal lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
...if Harry does get married soon then we'll have a milestone to help us better understand where things stand for him.
There's every indication that Prince Harry's relationship with his current girlfriend, Meghan Markle, is quite serious. That is also an entirely separate issue, despite any overlapping intersections with his public role in the royal family. If H&M's relationship was not serious, it would not have lasted as long as it has, nor would Harry have released his unprecedented statement to the press in November. It's the nature of Meghan's unique background and the fact that she's an American, to which we can attribute much of the extremes of public interest and some of the more OTT commentary on Internet sites. Of course the tabloid frenzy has always been a fact of life for the royals. But even the tabs and paps are acting a bit more crazier than usual, if that's possible.

I agree with @Osipi that things are progressing in ways we will never learn all the specific details about. The British royal family realize they are human like everyone else. At the same time, they have learned from experience how to accept and manage the burdens of royalty and the annoyances of living in a fishbowl. Their schedules are planned out probably two to three years in advance. There's no question that the principals involved in the drama we are googling and speculating about, know exactly what's going on. Prince Harry & his inner circle, in addition to Prince Charles and the Queen surely have some idea and understanding of the strategic planning necessary surrounding the increasing possibility of welcoming a new member into the royal family, particularly in this day and age of rampant social media and nonstop tabloid frenzy, and especially in the aftermath of the saga of Diana, Princess of Wales.
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  #6317  
Old 06-08-2017, 12:02 AM
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There is a lot of text above which I admit to not having read this evening but I will. Anyway, I have had a question that I have wanted to ask, and hope it's answer is not buried in the above text.

This: is there a protocol regarding when a girlfriend meets The Queen, for example? What meetings have occurred by the time there is an engagement? Like, must all senior royals (Queen, Duke, Charles) have met Meghan? More than that? Wondering....
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  #6318  
Old 06-08-2017, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
There is a lot of text above which I admit to not having read this evening but I will. Anyway, I have had a question that I have wanted to ask, and hope it's answer is not buried in the above text.

This: is there a protocol regarding when a girlfriend meets The Queen, for example? What meetings have occurred by the time there is an engagement? Like, must all senior royals (Queen, Duke, Charles) have met Meghan? More than that? Wondering....
There's no protocol for girlfriends to meet The Queen. It's just a normal gradual process. Catherine's face to face meeting with her was at Peter and Autumn's wedding. Just a brief moment as Catherine explained in her engagement interview.

It'll happen when the time presents itself.
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  #6319  
Old 06-08-2017, 12:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
There is a lot of text above which I admit to not having read this evening but I will. Anyway, I have had a question that I have wanted to ask, and hope it's answer is not buried in the above text.

This: is there a protocol regarding when a girlfriend meets The Queen, for example? What meetings have occurred by the time there is an engagement? Like, must all senior royals (Queen, Duke, Charles) have met Meghan? More than that? Wondering....
I doubt there is protocol, but I'd say yes, on meeting. First and foremost they are a family. I don't see Harry proposing before certainly his father, and quite surely his grandparents had at least met her. I don't see him asking granny for permission without allowing her to meet Meghan first. Now things like invitations to family events are another matter. That comes with at least engagement. A wedding like possible Eugenie would be a different matter then say Christmas.

Actually if Eugenir were yo get married first, would be a good setting to meet the extended family. Catherine did with peters.

My doubts earlier about her meeting anyone was not about it being serious. If it wasn't, he'd not have issued statements. Simply logistics. My doubt on Kate and Charlotte story had to do with the detail. Articles claiming she gave Kate a dream journal and so on. Such details are hard to believe which IMO makes whole tale hard to believe.
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Old 06-08-2017, 01:05 AM
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In recent years, people have come to think there's a strict protocol for partners of members of the royal family to meet The Queen. There's isn't one. When the opportunity presents itself, it happens. Also, there's no major protocol on the partners attending family events. I know it's been many years since Edward and Sophie dated, but those years will tell you a lot on how these things go and what's acceptable to The Queen.
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