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  #4961  
Old 04-12-2017, 09:18 AM
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No matter what title she would get she'll probably always be referred to in the press as Meghan Markle. The Duchess of Cambridge has been a member of the RF for six years and is still primarily referred to as Kate Middleton.
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  #4962  
Old 04-12-2017, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
I don't think her nationality or her being a foreign bride was is an issue.
CP Mary and Queen Máxima are foreigners and through time they have captured the hearts of their respective countries. Also, media articles in the UK are generally very favorable concerning Meghan so I don't think she will have an issue winning over the British public.

I don't believe her divorce is an issue. All but one of the Queen's children are divorced. I believe she genuinely cares for her Harry's happiness so I doubt she would object to him marrying Meghan.
the queen's not too happy about the divorces. I'm sure she does not want Harry to marry a divorcee unless he proves by being with her for a long time that she's the "only one" for him and that they can make the relationship work. And IMO they're not together that long, it is a long distance relationship..
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  #4963  
Old 04-12-2017, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Its not a case of objecting to an American per se, or liking or not liking Canada. its the fact that she would not have much knowledge of the Uk... and might not be that popular with the publc. As for "divorce not being an issue" it IS, as I'm sure you know. The queen only sanctioned the marriage to Camilla when it was obvious that charles would not give her up and she'd been linked with him for so long that he relaly had to marry her. On a personal level I think she's grown fond of Cam and thinks she's doig a good job.. but Camilla still took ages to be accepted by the public and if she has that strike against her of being divorced, she still has most otherthings going for her. She's upper class, she' knows the RF, she's a country woman, and englsih. Megan has numerous strikes against her.
You can't compare the two. Let's not do that to Meghan and this relationship.
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  #4964  
Old 04-12-2017, 10:09 AM
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As the years have passed, I believe HM has grown to accept that no matter who the people are, there are no guarantees that any marriage will survive and end in divorce. It happens. People make mistakes and find after time, the marriage just doesn't work and divorce is the best option all around. It would be a very narrow minded person that would stick to the belief that having a divorce in one's history is a black mark against them. If anyone in this world knows and understands this, it would be HM, The Queen. From personal experiences in her own family and from being very clued into the the world around her, this woman has wisdom, I think, that most of us can only hope to attain.

The Queen is also very considerate of her her grandchildren and how they perceive things. I was just reading an article where William and Kate were handed a guest list for their wedding from the courtiers and remarked to the Queen that they weren't happy with it. Her response? “Get rid of it . . . . Start from your friends and then we’ll add those we need to in due course. It’s your day.”

The quote was taken from an article that stems from the recent release of Sally Bedell Smith's biography of The Prince of Wales and is for clarification only on the quote.

https://www.aol.com/article/lifestyl...aphy/22035857/

Denville, no one is happy when a divorce happens but the days of the stigma of a divorce have long since faded into the ancient history files. To allude that HM, The Queen would use the stigma of divorce against her grandson's choice of a bride is your opinion only which I disagree with strongly. Unless you can come up with verifiable, credible sources that would prove beyond a doubt that this is what the Queen thinks and feels and whatever, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this matter.

The divorce stigma is not in the picture at all as far as credible evidence shows.
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  #4965  
Old 04-12-2017, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
You can't compare the two. Let's not do that to Meghan and this relationship.
why? I can compare the 2 and it seems to me that HMQ has now accepted Camilla, but there were particular circumstances.. and whatever camill'a faults she's been a good duchess, a good wife to Charles and loyal to the RF. Meghan is untried.
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  #4966  
Old 04-12-2017, 10:27 AM
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What is Meghan supposed to do? Take a crash university course in "How to adjust and adapt to the upper echelons of British Socieity 101"?
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  #4967  
Old 04-12-2017, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
why? I can compare the 2 and it seems to me that HMQ has now accepted Camilla, but there were particular circumstances.. and whatever camill'a faults she's been a good duchess, a good wife to Charles and loyal to the RF. Meghan is untried.
Harry's stepmother's situation was completely different and none of it applies to Meghan.

Everything will be fine if Meghan and Harry decide to take things to another level. The family will welcome her with open arms. It's all about making sure the couple is happy.
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  #4968  
Old 04-12-2017, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
why? I can compare the 2 and it seems to me that HMQ has now accepted Camilla, but there were particular circumstances.. and whatever camill'a faults she's been a good duchess, a good wife to Charles and loyal to the RF. Meghan is untried.
The only "particular circumstances" that occurred when Charles married Camilla is that the Queen balked at attending the civil ceremony as the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. This was a situation where her public role as a monarch dictated her actions. Personally, as Charles' mother, I believe she knew that Charles had found the right woman for himself, stood up and avidly claimed her as "non-negotiable" and there were no reasons to bar the wedding. HM did happily attend the Service of Blessing and threw C&C a reception afterwards. Proud mamas do that.

One *huge* thing needed to be remembered too here is that when Harry asks his grandmother for permission to marry, he's asking her as his monarch and not his grandmother. There is a division between the role of the monarch and the role of his grandmother in all of this. Big thing to remember.

As far as Harry and Meghan and The Queen go, from all I can see, there are absolutely no details that would need the Queen to step in as monarch and enact any kind of a ban against the marriage and if there are, please point them out to us with credible sources. As a grandmother, there's even less reason for an objection. If you can provide credible sources that prove otherwise, go for it.
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  #4969  
Old 04-12-2017, 04:27 PM
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No the particular circumstances I meant was that the affair had been made so public, that Charles "owed it" to Camilla to legitimise the relationship.
I agree that she has accepted that Charles and Camilla love each other and probably should have married years earlier..and that Camilla is on a personal level a nice woman that she has grown fond of. It doesn't mean that she's entirely happy with the years of drama and scandal and the fact that years had to pass before they could marry...
I believe that she hoped after the divorce that Charles would agree to reign alone..
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  #4970  
Old 04-12-2017, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
What is Meghan supposed to do? Take a crash university course in "How to adjust and adapt to the upper echelons of British Socieity 101"?
She will have to adapt, so the old fashioned movie scenario of "learning to be a Princess" wouldn't be a bad idea.
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  #4971  
Old 04-12-2017, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
...
I believe that she hoped after the divorce that Charles would agree to reign alone..
I've seen no evidence to support this conjecture, indeed after her glowing praise of Phillip and how important he has been to her in carrying out her duties, I would conjecture that she of all people understands the gift of a dedicated and supportive consort.
The Queen, as head of the church of England, must have allegiance to the church's position on these matters.
In every biography I've read of Princess Margaret, it seems that the Queen personally had no objection to Margaret marrying the divorced Peter Townsend, but the church forbade it at the time and thus Margaret faced the choice her Uncle faced - remove yourself from the Royal family/line of succession or abandon Peter. When Margaret and Lord Snowden ultimately divoced, the family remained friendly w/ Lord Snowden even after his remarriage, and of course Margaret remained a public member of the Royal family.
Likewise, Anne and Charles have never stopped performing Royal duties and they are both divorced and remarried. Andrew, divorced and not remarried remains at the heart of the family making public official appearances.
I expect that should Harry and Meghan wed, the Queen, as always, will follow the Church's teachings as to any public attendance and then privately support the couple in whatever way she can, as she did with Charles and Camilla. I'm not sure of the Church of England's stance on a briefly married now divorced no children person marrying a never married person - and if that limits the venues the couple could choose to have the ceremony performed in.
Now, about the dress...oh, wait, wrong thread, need to hop over to Pippa's thread :)
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  #4972  
Old 04-12-2017, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
No the particular circumstances I meant was that the affair had been made so public, that Charles "owed it" to Camilla to legitimise the relationship.
I agree that she has accepted that Charles and Camilla love each other and probably should have married years earlier..and that Camilla is on a personal level a nice woman that she has grown fond of. It doesn't mean that she's entirely happy with the years of drama and scandal and the fact that years had to pass before they could marry...
I believe that she hoped after the divorce that Charles would agree to reign alone..
You have credible sources to back up what you're implying in this post? Is any of it anything beside a figment of your imagination? Opinions here are required to be backed up by credible sources y'know. Its a rule. Not fairy tales, wishes and hopes that this is how things may be but opinions backed up by credible sources.

The Queen was hoping Charles would reign alone? Where out of the deep fathoms of Neverland was this pulled out of.

Please. Sources. Please.

To back up my post here, this is what is stated in the TRF rules:

Whenever possible, opinions should be based on factual information obtained from reputable sources and should be backed up by references to those sources. The moderators reserve the right to delete posts containing the more fanciful types of gossip and speculation, whether they originate in gossip magazines and websites or are simply fabricated.

Most importantly, we need to get back on the subject of Harry's relationship. The C&C ins and outs of their wedding and marriage are severely off topic.
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  #4973  
Old 04-12-2017, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sndral View Post
I expect that should Harry and Meghan wed, the Queen, as always, will follow the Church's teachings as to any public attendance and then privately support the couple in whatever way she can, as she did with Charles and Camilla. I'm not sure of the Church of England's stance on a briefly married now divorced no children person marrying a never married person - and if that limits the venues the couple could choose to have the ceremony performed in.
I believe we've touched on this before a while back ago and from what I understand, as Meghan was not married in the church for her first wedding and had a civil ceremony in Jamaica, in the eyes of the CoE, she most likely wouldn't be seen has being married before and it would be her first wedding in the Church's eyes. Then again, the Church leaves the decision whether to marry a divorced person again has been left up to the individual clergy if I'm remembering things right.

I seriously don't think we'd see a problem with the Church of England marrying Harry and Meghan if that is what they choose to do. We'll just have to watch as things unfold and see what happens.
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  #4974  
Old 04-12-2017, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
William waited 9 years to marry Kate. To be certain she was --The one. I can't see Harry rushing any girl down the isle. If Meghan is --The One -- for him I am sure he will take his time getting to know her better. Not 9 years obviously, but a year or two at least. And for that she would have to at least live in the same country as him.
I am sure Harry is mature enough to want to get to know a girl first before marriage. And that can take awhile. Especially when both live very busy lives.
True, but the huge difference is that Kate and William met at university as they were just entering their early twenties. That is extremely young for either of them to have felt "This is the One," although Kate may have felt it moreso than Wills. OTOH, it is possible to feel a deep attraction at a young age, however a life commitment for them was way too early to make. Wills needed time to have fun, and sow a bit of wild oats in order to be sure Kate was the one he couldn't live without.

And so all of that did play out after they graduated from college, and that's why it took 9 years. There was no way that Wills intended to marry in his early to mid-twenties. He even said so publicly. While they were in college, both Wills and Kate had the distinct advantage of being able to develop their relationship mostly in private, due to the strict agreement between media and the Palace to leave Wills alone during his college years. We heard a lot about Wills living off-campus with a group of friends, one of whom was Kate. It was the 'group of friends' that served to provide the cover they needed to get to know each other better, etc.

In Harry's case, he did fall in love with Chelsy at a young age, and I believe they were together off-and-on for about 7 years. I think they had a strong bond, but in retrospect it appears to have been mainly young love and a fun friendship that didn't go further because Chelsy discovered she was absolutely uncomfortable and therefore unsuited to living the life of a royal wife, subjected to endless media scrutiny.

Meghan similarly dated Trevor Engelson for about 7 years prior to marrying. And as fate would have it, they married around the same time that Meghan landed the role in Suits which was to be filmed in Toronto. So her marriage did not start off auspiciously due to the long distance from L.A., and Meghan's complete change in lifestyle, new experiences and friendships. Her life with Engelson did not stand the test of time and distance, even despite having dated him for 7 years before marrying. That could partly be because Meghan was in her early twenties when they met and she had not had the opportunity to grow as a person and to discover what she truly wanted out of life. Stardom on Suits and Meghan's adventures in Toronto along with the friendships she developed, set her life on an unexpected course.

Meghan's relationship with Engelson, on the other hand, likely helped her grow as a person so she surely has no regrets, just as Harry surely as no regrets about his former bond with Chelsy. I do not think Harry was that serious about Cressida. Seemingly it was a more casual two-year 'fling.' And here we have some people currently characterizing Harry's connection with Meghan as a 'fling,' despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Oh well, we still have to wait and see how it all develops. But it seems M & H both are at a stage in their lives where they are ready to fully commit and start a family. And they are reportedly in love and very comfortable with each other, and they share mutual interests and goals. So at their respective ages, I tend to feel that an engagement may be announced in late 2017 or early 2018, with a marriage set for sometime in 2018. Meghan will be 37 in August 2018, which is a bit late for planning a first pregnancy. That's why there may be an outside chance that a wedding will happen earliest in April or May of 2018 with a baby arriving around February or March of 2019. I say this because they surely will want to have more than one child (with a bit of time in between each one) if marriage is on the horizon for them.

For all we know, commitments have already been made and tentative scheduling plans set (except for Harry determining when he will surprise Meghan with the actual proposal).
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  #4975  
Old 04-12-2017, 05:59 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised for them marry in 2018....an engagement could come as soon as fall/winter this year.


LaRae
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  #4976  
Old 04-12-2017, 06:00 PM
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We don't anything. They could broken up for all we know. They could be talking about marriage. They could have an agreement that once she finishes Suits then they will talk about marriage.

One thing is true that the press makes a lot of things up when it comes to royals. William even said about not believing everything that was written in his engagement interview.

Lots of the stuff with Harry and Meghan is just stories with no supporting evidence. Sometimes the evidence are obvious photo shopped photos from sketchy Italian magazines.
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  #4977  
Old 04-12-2017, 07:41 PM
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Harry is fifth in line to the throne, I doubt being told whom he can have a relationship with or not, at thirty something odd will hold much water, just as his grandmother would impose such a rule ..... unless there was serious reason! Which there is not!

They are a couple. Spend a serious lot of time together given their time constraints and distance. They are serious.
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  #4978  
Old 04-12-2017, 07:57 PM
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The thing that I think a lot of us are missing out on is that there are two factors at play here. Harry *must* ask permission of the Queen to marry. That is a given. In her role as monarch, her personal feelings about Harry's request will not factor in as it its a constitutional thing the Queen must give approval for. Unless Parliament comes up with some earth shattering news from an extensive background check of Ms. Markle, there will be no legal reasons to bar the marriage.

The Queen's personal relationship with Harry as his grandmother does not figure into all of this. She may hate the fact that Meghan constantly wears yellow which clashes with the shade of HM's yellow umbrella or she may believe that Suits is a so-so show she never bothered to watch or think anything of any kind of a nature about Ms. Markle but it wouldn't figure into her royal stamp of approval on the marriage.

When we think about it, even back in the 30s during the lead up to Edward VIII's abdication, most of the discussions back and forth and the points argued for and against and whatnot were done in Parliament.

All the more reason I have to believe that should Harry ask HM for permission to marry Meghan tomorrow, she'd give her assent and approval.
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  #4979  
Old 04-13-2017, 02:33 AM
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If Meghan had the faintest idea of what marriage would be like in the goldfish bowl of being a royal in the UK with her freedom severely curtailed. And criticism of her every move. I am sure she would win the 100 yard dash back in to the real world.
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  #4980  
Old 04-13-2017, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tarlita View Post
If Meghan had the faintest idea of what marriage would be like in the goldfish bowl of being a royal in the UK with her freedom severely curtailed. And criticism of her every move. I am sure she would win the 100 yard dash back in to the real world.

or to phrase it with Jane Austens words layed in the mouth of Elisabeth Bennet: 'only the deepest love could induce her to marry' ... a royal in the goldfish bowl...

I think this must be true for any sane person. Who in his/her right mind would ever choose such a live? And yes, I do not consider those media-seeking people 'sane'.
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