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  #2961  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:20 PM
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Of course Americans marrying British aristocrats is different to marrying into The Firm.

But as has been pointed out, divorce isn't a social taboo. If Harry wants to marry Meghan, her previous marriage won't matter.

The usual snobs will protest. She's American, she's divorced, her background, but none of that is an issue to most brits.
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  #2962  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:20 PM
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If they don't marry of course there will always be those who call them snobs and even racist. Not because Meghan is American, as that isn't a race, but because she is mixed.

But if you look at the extended royal family we already have

An actres: Sophie Winklemen
A foreigner: two Canadians Autumn and Silvana, and kiwi Gary Lewis
Other race: Gary Lewis is Maori
Divorced: Silvana is divorced. Gary not divorced but a child from a previous relationship. Even Princess Michael was a divorcee.

Yes, Harry is closer to the throne. But he is currently fifth and if his brother has more kids, and when George and Charlotte grow up and have kids, he gets further and further away.
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  #2963  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lilacmagnolia View Post
I was trying to say out of her divorced status,her age and being American the one that could be an issue the most would have been her being American not understanding their culture but of course all are non issues in the end.I don't see any problem with his choice in GF but I have heard some British people complain about her not being an "English Rose".
She's an biracial American
  #2964  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lilacmagnolia View Post
I was trying to say out of her divorced status,her age and being American the one that could be an issue the most would have been her being American not understanding their culture but of course all are non issues in the end.I don't see any problem with his choice in GF but I have heard some British people complain about her not being an "English Rose".
That comment re "English Rose" would be a euphemism for a racist comment. There are awful people everywhere who say things like that. Shame on them.

But there are over 65 million British people and frankly I doubt if even 0.001% are interested or have made a comment. So as a Brit, I say ignore comments like that cos they mean nothing in the real world.

Harry has said that joining the BRF is tough, and so I don't think that he will rush anything. I would guess that if all goes well and she accepts the constraints that royal life brings (and it does and no she won't change the culture because that is down to the Monarch), poss engagement very end of 2017 and wedding 2018.

The 70th anniversary of HMQ and DoE should not/will not be overshadowed
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  #2965  
Old 01-09-2017, 03:46 PM
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The multitudes may bray and the media print their scorn to the ends of the earth but in the long run, it won't matter one little bit. The choice is up to the couple and the assent given by the monarch is all that is needed.

It'll be a frozen day in the desert before any of the people that matter as to how this relationship goes pay any attention to popular opinion. Those that whine and moan and stick their noses up in the air have nothing better to do with their lives than to form opinions on something that isn't their concern in the first place.
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  #2966  
Old 01-09-2017, 04:19 PM
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None of the Brits I've contact with (friends with on FB and other groups) have had anything negative to say about Meghan due to her Americanism or her mixed ethnicity.


LaRae
  #2967  
Old 01-09-2017, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
For generations, many if not most of the marriages undertaken "with rules" in the BRF were not only successful, they were happy.
Wow, that's a stretch of a statement. There were some marriages that were happy by our modern definition, yes, but also some truly dysfunctional messes and more than a few that worked primarily because the king and the queen essentially ran separate households and rarely saw each other. Thing is, in this day and age of constant media attention, that last option isn't really on the table any more, so it becomes all the more important for Harry and his family members to really have a true interest in and affection for the person they choose as a spouse, and the old rules of "suitability" become less reliable as an indicator of a royal marriage's success.
  #2968  
Old 01-09-2017, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
Wow, that's a stretch of a statement. There were some marriages that were happy by our modern definition, yes, but also some truly dysfunctional messes and more than a few that worked primarily because the king and the queen essentially ran separate households and rarely saw each other. Thing is, in this day and age of constant media attention, that last option isn't really on the table any more, so it becomes all the more important for Harry and his family members to really have a true interest in and affection for the person they choose as a spouse, and the old rules of "suitability" become less reliable as an indicator of a royal marriage's success.
Yesss, thank you! I had to chuckle at the arranged happy marriage thing
  #2969  
Old 01-09-2017, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
Wow, that's a stretch of a statement. There were some marriages that were happy by our modern definition, yes, but also some truly dysfunctional messes and more than a few that worked primarily because the king and the queen essentially ran separate households and rarely saw each other. Thing is, in this day and age of constant media attention, that last option isn't really on the table any more, so it becomes all the more important for Harry and his family members to really have a true interest in and affection for the person they choose as a spouse, and the old rules of "suitability" become less reliable as an indicator of a royal marriage's success.
This was said beautifully!!!
  #2970  
Old 01-09-2017, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
Wow, that's a stretch of a statement. There were some marriages that were happy by our modern definition, yes, but also some truly dysfunctional messes and more than a few that worked primarily because the king and the queen essentially ran separate households and rarely saw each other. Thing is, in this day and age of constant media attention, that last option isn't really on the table any more, so it becomes all the more important for Harry and his family members to really have a true interest in and affection for the person they choose as a spouse, and the old rules of "suitability" become less reliable as an indicator of a royal marriage's success.

First of all, the statement that Moonmaiden was responding to said that marriage by the rules never worked in the BRF. That is simply not true.

Second of all, what "the rules" are has changed roughly every generation since the reign of Queen Victoria. The options for marriage available to her were not the same as the ones available to her children or grandchildren, let alone her descendants a marrying hundred years after her death.

Thirdly, you can't judge the happiness of historic individuals and their marriages by modern standards. There were many successful marriages within the BRF over the last 100 that were happy by the standards of today, and even more that were happy by the standards of the day in which they occurred. There were marriages within the BRF that broke the rules of the day and were happy, as well as those that broke the rules (or changed the rules) and were unhappy.

Fourthly, people are acting like Harry and Meghan marrying would somehow break or change the rules... when the rules were changed well before Meghan entered the scene.

The Queen married within the rules of her day and had a happy marriage. Her sister changed the rules to marry a commoner, and was unhappy.

Charles married within the rules of his day and was unhappy, but Anne and Andrew both married outside of typical convention and ended up unhappy.

The "rules" aren't the issue, it's the people who enter into the marriage, their expectations, and their compatibility.
  #2971  
Old 01-09-2017, 08:00 PM
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  #2972  
Old 01-09-2017, 08:15 PM
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I should say the arranged marriages Barely ever work In the BRF,very rare that they do...Never was a tiny exaggeration...
  #2973  
Old 01-09-2017, 09:50 PM
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lilacmagnolia, can you name a single arranged marriage in the BRF in the last 60 years? Other than Charles?

You're making this grand sweeping claim that is not backed up by any fact. Yes, Charles was in a marriage that can be considered arranged. Yes, it was unhappy. None of his siblings were in arranged marriages. His aunt was not in an arranged marriage. His parents were not in an arranged marriage. His mother's cousins were not in arranged marriages.

Going further back, George VI and the Queen Mother were not in an arranged marriage. Nor was the marriages of any of his brothers. It's fair to say that they were pushed at times into marrying in general (which itself is what happened with Charles), but they weren't arranged marriages.

Arranged marriages have not been a thing in the BRF for a hundred years. And the arranged marriages that happened more than a hundred years ago were frequently happy according to the standards of the time.
  #2974  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Charles married a divorcee.

Charles, Anne, and Andrew are all divorcees.

There are also a plethora of divorcees in the expanded family - the Lascelles family being the closest to the throne with the most divorces.

It is no longer 1936. It isn't even 1955. Times have changed, as have attitudes towards divorce. This is no longer an issue.
It wouldn't be an issue for the Queen giving her permission, but it could very well be an issue if they want to marry at Westminster Abbey. But if they want St. George's, then things should run pretty smoothly.


As for the American issue other posters are talking about. I do think it's an issue. Not for HM or for the rest of the BRF, but for Meghan herself. This would be a giant culture shock for her. As a self-described "loud, brash American" and a feminist. She would have to accept a muzzle on her mouth and personality. She would go from a country where everyone is born equal, at least in theory . To a country with an ingrained class system, she will curtsy, she will address some by their titles, she will have to put up with a tabloid media that sneers at her social mobility.

Then she will have to give up acting, a passion of hers. She will have to say goodbye to her role with the UN, as the BRF carefully avoids the UN. Camilla, Sophie and Catherine all live close to their friends and family, and thus have an important support network that they can see frequently. Meghan's friends and family live in North America, frequent phone calls don't fill that gap. She can't fly out to see them more than about twice a year, or the media will give her the "Air Miles Meg" treatment. She will be very isolated in a new world that is at odds with her personality.

Maybe they can make it work. But Meghan will have more emotional hurdles than any of the other current spouses. If their relationship continues, I hope Meghan gives herself plenty of time to consider all her options, and to test out if she can handle living in the UK - an ocean away from her other life. That's why I wouldn't want them to marry before 2019.

Given all the sacrifices she will have to make, this marriage would only work if she loves Harry 100%, 99% would probably end in divorce. So I guess the real question is does she love Harry more than she loves herself? Is she okay with his needs being put in front of hers? Is she okay surrendering her identity? It's a tall order, and I don't envy the position she finds herself in.
  #2975  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:30 PM
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It's all working for Crown Princess Mary. She left her whole life in Australia behind for a whole new life in Denmark. She seems to be doing pretty fantastic in her new royal life. Meghan could do the same. Family visits will come in handy, as it does for Mary.

Princess Grace did the same thing.
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  #2976  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
It wouldn't be an issue for the Queen giving her permission, but it could very well be an issue if they want to marry at Westminster Abbey. But if they want St. George's, then things should run pretty smoothly.


As for the American issue other posters are talking about. I do think it's an issue. Not for HM or for the rest of the BRF, but for Meghan herself. This would be a giant culture shock for her. As a self-described "loud, brash American" and a feminist. She would have to accept a muzzle on her mouth and personality. She would go from a country where everyone is born equal, at least in theory . To a country with an ingrained class system, she will curtsy, she will address some by their titles, she will have to put up with a tabloid media that sneers at her social mobility.

Then she will have to give up acting, a passion of hers. She will have to say goodbye to her role with the UN, as the BRF carefully avoids the UN. Camilla, Sophie and Catherine all live close to their friends and family, and thus have an important support network that they can see frequently. Meghan's friends and family live in North America, frequent phone calls don't fill that gap. She can't fly out to see them more than about twice a year, or the media will give her the "Air Miles Meg" treatment. She will be very isolated in a new world that is at odds with her personality.

Maybe they can make it work. But Meghan will have more emotional hurdles than any of the other current spouses. If their relationship continues, I hope Meghan gives herself plenty of time to consider all her options, and to test out if she can handle living in the UK - an ocean away from her other life. That's why I wouldn't want them to marry before 2019.

Given all the sacrifices she will have to make, this marriage would only work if she loves Harry 100%, 99% would probably end in divorce. So I guess the real question is does she love Harry more than she loves herself? Is she okay with his needs being put in front of hers? Is she okay surrendering her identity? It's a tall order, and I don't envy the position she finds herself in.

But again, those cultural differences and expectations aren’t unknown to her—No 35 year old woman goes into a relationship with someone like Harry with blinders on. You can guarantee that she has done her research and that Harry has also filled her in over the past 7 months. It’s also been heavily reported that she has been receiving guidance and advice from a couple of Harry’s advisors on how to handle the media attention, etc. She isn’t a naïve 20 year old--she knows what that life would entail.

Also—the UN isn’t the be-all-end-all of her charity work. She can very easily join (or develop) other charities focusing exactly on the same issues and have the ability to have a much greater influence in those areas. I also don’t see her being too concerned about leaving acting behind. She has admitted roles are hard for her to come by and she is also not getting any younger (Hollywood and their ridiculous focus on age and race :( ). Also, she’s always had an interest in politics, government, etc. I could see this being an attraction for her.

Regarding the moving issue--She moved from LA to the Midwest for college, then she worked in South America for a couple of years after college. Then she went from California to Canada. This girl wouldn’t have an issue with a move to the UK. She has also said in past interviews that she has multiple friends that live in the UK, so she would have the support of the BRF as well as personal friends outside of the family. I believe she also lived there for a bit filming a movie there. If she has shown anything, it’s that she’s adaptable.

As far as the traveling thing—she’s independently wealthy. She can afford to fly home as needed and can also afford to fly her family over to the UK for visits. Of course the media will complain about the security costs, but they’d find something to complain about anyway, so screw ‘em :)
  #2977  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miss whirley View Post
It wouldn't be an issue for the Queen giving her permission, but it could very well be an issue if they want to marry at Westminster Abbey. But if they want St. George's, then things should run pretty smoothly.


As for the American issue other posters are talking about. I do think it's an issue. Not for HM or for the rest of the BRF, but for Meghan herself. This would be a giant culture shock for her. As a self-described "loud, brash American" and a feminist. She would have to accept a muzzle on her mouth and personality. She would go from a country where everyone is born equal, at least in theory . To a country with an ingrained class system, she will curtsy, she will address some by their titles, she will have to put up with a tabloid media that sneers at her social mobility.

Then she will have to give up acting, a passion of hers. She will have to say goodbye to her role with the UN, as the BRF carefully avoids the UN. Camilla, Sophie and Catherine all live close to their friends and family, and thus have an important support network that they can see frequently. Meghan's friends and family live in North America, frequent phone calls don't fill that gap. She can't fly out to see them more than about twice a year, or the media will give her the "Air Miles Meg" treatment. She will be very isolated in a new world that is at odds with her personality.

Maybe they can make it work. But Meghan will have more emotional hurdles than any of the other current spouses. If their relationship continues, I hope Meghan gives herself plenty of time to consider all her options, and to test out if she can handle living in the UK - an ocean away from her other life. That's why I wouldn't want them to marry before 2019.

Given all the sacrifices she will have to make, this marriage would only work if she loves Harry 100%, 99% would probably end in divorce. So I guess the real question is does she love Harry more than she loves herself? Is she okay with his needs being put in front of hers? Is she okay surrendering her identity? It's a tall order, and I don't envy the position she finds herself in.
I've actually been thinking about it, and I wonder if the Queen might not give Harry permission to allow him a degree of freedom in a way...

If the Queen grants them permission, then Meghan is going to have to give up a lot of her life. More than most others who have married into a royal family; she is by her own words an outspoken American, who has a successful career and her own relationship with the press and public. This would have to be given up or drastically altered in order to marry into what is the most well known royal family in the world, that comes with some fairly complex rules in regards to behaviour and is constantly under a huge amount of public scrutiny.

On the flip side, though, Harry no longer requires the Queen's permission to marry - he only requires the Queen's permission to marry if he wishes to remain in the line of succession. He could marry without permission and separate himself from the BRF; it certainly wouldn't remove him from the public eye, but it could drastically alter his position in such a way that what Meghan would have to give up would be much less.

I don't see it actually happening, but it's a possibility.
  #2978  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I don't know where Meghan is, but H is back in the UK

CC 9/1
Prince Henry of Wales, Joint Patron, the Royal Foundation of The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry, this afternoon joined the Endeavour Fund Awards Ceremony Judging Panel at Kensington Palace.
Slightly wrong. That event is in the 17th.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I don't know where Meghan is, but H is back in the UK

CC 9/1
Prince Henry of Wales, Joint Patron, the Royal Foundation of The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry, this afternoon joined the Endeavour Fund Awards Ceremony Judging Panel at Kensington Palace.

Next week we'll be hosting our inaugural @EndeavourFund Awards ceremony which will be attended by The Duke of Cambridge and Prince Harry
  #2979  
Old 01-09-2017, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I've actually been thinking about it, and I wonder if the Queen might not give Harry permission to allow him a degree of freedom in a way...

If the Queen grants them permission, then Meghan is going to have to give up a lot of her life. More than most others who have married into a royal family; she is by her own words an outspoken American, who has a successful career and her own relationship with the press and public. This would have to be given up or drastically altered in order to marry into what is the most well known royal family in the world, that comes with some fairly complex rules in regards to behaviour and is constantly under a huge amount of public scrutiny.

On the flip side, though, Harry no longer requires the Queen's permission to marry - he only requires the Queen's permission to marry if he wishes to remain in the line of succession. He could marry without permission and separate himself from the BRF; it certainly wouldn't remove him from the public eye, but it could drastically alter his position in such a way that what Meghan would have to give up would be much less.

I don't see it actually happening, but it's a possibility.

I could never see that happening. There would be too much public backlash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lcamp184 View Post
But again, those cultural differences and expectations aren’t unknown to her—No 35 year old woman goes into a relationship with someone like Harry with blinders on. You can guarantee that she has done her research and that Harry has also filled her in over the past 7 months. It’s also been heavily reported that she has been receiving guidance and advice from a couple of Harry’s advisors on how to handle the media attention, etc. She isn’t a naïve 20 year old--she knows what that life would entail.

Also—the UN isn’t the be-all-end-all of her charity work. She can very easily join (or develop) other charities focusing exactly on the same issues and have the ability to have a much greater influence in those areas. I also don’t see her being too concerned about leaving acting behind. She has admitted roles are hard for her to come by and she is also not getting any younger (Hollywood and their ridiculous focus on age and race :( ). Also, she’s always had an interest in politics, government, etc. I could see this being an attraction for her.

Regarding the moving issue--She moved from LA to the Midwest for college, then she worked in South America for a couple of years after college. Then she went from California to Canada. This girl wouldn’t have an issue with a move to the UK. She has also said in past interviews that she has multiple friends that live in the UK, so she would have the support of the BRF as well as personal friends outside of the family. I believe she also lived there for a bit filming a movie there. If she has shown anything, it’s that she’s adaptable.

As far as the traveling thing—she’s independently wealthy. She can afford to fly home as needed and can also afford to fly her family over to the UK for visits. Of course the media will complain about the security costs, but they’d find something to complain about anyway, so screw ‘em :)
I completely agree! I think she'd take on the role and responsibilities without much difficulty.
  #2980  
Old 01-09-2017, 11:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I've actually been thinking about it, and I wonder if the Queen might not give Harry permission to allow him a degree of freedom in a way...

If the Queen grants them permission, then Meghan is going to have to give up a lot of her life. More than most others who have married into a royal family; she is by her own words an outspoken American, who has a successful career and her own relationship with the press and public. This would have to be given up or drastically altered in order to marry into what is the most well known royal family in the world, that comes with some fairly complex rules in regards to behaviour and is constantly under a huge amount of public scrutiny.

On the flip side, though, Harry no longer requires the Queen's permission to marry - he only requires the Queen's permission to marry if he wishes to remain in the line of succession. He could marry without permission and separate himself from the BRF; it certainly wouldn't remove him from the public eye, but it could drastically alter his position in such a way that what Meghan would have to give up would be much less.

I don't see it actually happening, but it's a possibility.
That wouldn't happened. For one, if Harry gave up his place in line to the thorne, he would become a private individual. I highly doubt he'd be allowed to continue his public role as it is now. That happened with the Frisco. It's not quite as bad as Duke of Windsor, but it would change things. Harry would probably have to give up RPO without media and public attention dying down. And that could be a problem.

Second, Charles wants a streamlined royal family once the Queen passes. That's not going to work with just him, Camilla, and the Cambridges with young children. Harry and his wife will be expected to carry out royal duties as Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh ages and eventually passes.

Lastly, Meghan wouldn't be the only one in the BRF that has a political opinion. Besides, the issues she really care about aren't really that political. To encourage woman to participate in leadership positions and stay in school isn't really political. Or at least it shouldn't be. It's a human rights issue. And gun control wouldn't even be a problem in UK. I can see her with her own version of Sentebale working with girls in Africa or another third world region if her and Harry go the distance.
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