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  #121  
Old 02-26-2013, 09:14 PM
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Why do people think he would want to stop being a member of the BRF? He said in his Afghanistan that he was looking forward to more royal duties this year. He may not like press attention on his private life but I don't think that is the same as wanting to give up being who he is.
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  #122  
Old 02-26-2013, 11:40 PM
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Yes he may think he wants to continue with royal duties. Will the press ever stop hounding him, however? Interfering in his relationships? All reports suggest Chelsy would have married him, if he asked, if it were not the royal duties in the way. He may have to choose between being actively royal and having a relationship he really wants, as countless royals have done. Hard choice. If he did marry, I suppose that the press would have less access to his personal life--interfering no more than with Wiliam and Catherine, which is bad enough. It is too bad that a girl he probably loved is going away and he is left with apparent endless possibilities, but actually...love? Ever?
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  #123  
Old 02-26-2013, 11:50 PM
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Actually I cannot think of many Britsih royals who gave up their official life for "love". The only example that comes to mind is the Duke of Windsor. I actually think if a woman expects him to give everything up for her then she is the wrong person anyway. As for finding the right person who loves him and can accept marrying into the royal family other members of his family have managed to do it so why should Harry be any different? There is no urgency in him rushing into marriage and he is certainly young enough to have the time to find his Miss Right.
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  #124  
Old 02-27-2013, 12:43 AM
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It's not simply giving up being a Royal for love, it's giving up who he is - and his family - for it. Being a Royal is what he was born to do and what he was raised to do. He might not like every aspect of it, but both he and William have shown that it's something they consider to be a part of their lives. The Royal Duties is as much their job as their military service, and both seem to accept that eventually being full time Royals is their future. Every expectation seems to be that with time the senior Royals will do less while William, Catherine, and Harry do more, and none of them have given us any reason to believe that this is contrary to their own desires.

If it was, then Harry could theoretically give it up for love (or whatever reason) and hope that in doing so the press will stop following him (which seems highly unlikely). Except to give up the Royal Life is to go back on his destiny so to speak and to renege on his duty. Sure, Harry might come across as immature and reckless at times, but I can't see his family calmly accept him giving it up. In my mind, with an understanding of how the BRF reacted to the abdication, to give up being Royal would entail giving up being a member of the family. I can't see HM or The DoE calmly accepting Harry's resignation and allowing him to stick around in the background at Balmoral, not can I see The PoW doing so either. Harry might retain relationships with them, but they'd be strained at best. Similarly his relationship would become strained with William.

Furthermore, what kind of woman would really ask someone to give up his job, his life, and likely his family? That doesn't sound like his one true love to me, that sounds like someone who's demanding and a bit selfish. While I think Harry and Chelsy may have been great together, if she had in fact asked him to give it up before they got married I would have thought less of her for asking and him for doing so. And that's assuming that Chelsy was in reality the love of his life. We don't know that, and when it comes down to it really we have no reason to believe so. Chelsy was a girl he dated, yes for a long time, but note the past tense. She is now his friend, nothing more. Both appear to have moved on, both may still find the love of their life. For all we know, the love of Harry's life could be Cressida Bonas, we don't know yet.
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  #125  
Old 02-27-2013, 12:53 AM
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I hope he finds Miss Right.
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  #126  
Old 02-27-2013, 02:31 AM
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Harry inherited a little money from his mum. He could resign as prince and go into business, if he has any business training. As his cousin Alexander Windsor did, resigned from the army and went into business. Then he wouldn't have to take the guff to such a degree. He would always take some guff, but not so much. Let the other royals like Bea and Eug take on duties in his stead, and Edward and Sophie, and all the others who could do it. I guess from reports that Bea and Eug made a hit in Prussia at the opening of the refurbished palace there. They can do it!
I know I have eccentric opinions, but I think it would nice if Harry could have a real life.
This is just so daft! The "media" and others ruined a perfectly good but not spectacular career for Sophie when it became known she was engaged to Edward. The made sure that every business endeavour Edward and sophie ever tried was howled down as hawking off the BRF?

Now if they wouldn't let a Queen's son have a nice little business, what on earth makes you think that they would let her grandson, especially when that grandson is going to be the son of the King and of the iconic Diana?

It isn't right, it isn't fair, but it is what it is and, Harry is more than aware of the pitfalls ahead of him. I think that is why he has invested so much of himself into the Army . . . and, well hey, his mum's the Commander in Chief, royalty and the military have been so intertwined for centuries, so who cares.
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  #127  
Old 02-27-2013, 02:46 AM
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This is just so daft! The "media" and others ruined a perfectly good but not spectacular career for Sophie when it became known she was engaged to Edward. The made sure that every business endeavour Edward and sophie ever tried was howled down as hawking off the BRF?

Now if they wouldn't let a Queen's son have a nice little business, what on earth makes you think that they would let her grandson, especially when that grandson is going to be the son of the King and of the iconic Diana?

It isn't right, it isn't fair, but it is what it is and, Harry is more than aware of the pitfalls ahead of him. I think that is why he has invested so much of himself into the Army . . . and, well hey, his mum's the Commander in Chief, royalty and the military have been so intertwined for centuries, so who cares.
Agreed. The idea that Harry could leave and live a quiet life is ridiculous- and so is the notion that he'd even want to do that. He loves his family- I have no doubt supporting them is important to him.

He and William both seem to have some perspective on their positions- seeing both the privileges and the limitations. They'll be fine.

And eventually like William, Harry will find someone who wants that life and I'm sure he'll make sure the person he marries is prepared for it.
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  #128  
Old 02-27-2013, 02:59 AM
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I guess from reports that Bea and Eug made a hit in Prussia at the opening of the refurbished palace there.
Hannover is not in Prussia. The kingdom of Hanover was annexed by Prussia in the 1800s but after WWII it became part of the Federal State of Lower Saxony (Niedersachsen) with Hannover city as the capital.
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  #129  
Old 02-27-2013, 04:09 AM
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Harry inherited a little money from his mum. He could resign as prince and go into business, if he has any business training.
Little money? More like a lot of money. As for Henry "resigning" think you used the wrong word there. Henry has seemingly shown no interest in a life other than military and royal, what is he supposed to do?

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Yes he may think he wants to continue with royal duties. Will the press ever stop hounding him, however? Interfering in his relationships? All reports suggest Chelsy would have married him, if he asked, if it were not the royal duties in the way. He may have to choose between being actively royal and having a relationship he really wants, as countless royals have done.
Actually he might not. Women know who Prince Henry is and what he does. That is his life. If they can't accept who he is and want him to change, then they shouldn't be with him. Many royal relationships have succeeded despite press intervention.

Your point about a Henry and Chelsy marriage is mute, he didn't ask her to marry him and we don't know why.
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  #130  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:35 AM
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Harry will never have a "quiet" life. He's the grandson of a queen, his Dad & brother will be kings & don't forget who his mother was.

I guess we can all hope that he finds a woman who will put up with everything that comes with Harry.
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  #131  
Old 02-27-2013, 11:07 AM
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It's not simply giving up being a Royal for love, it's giving up who he is - and his family - for it. Being a Royal is what he was born to do and what he was raised to do. He might not like every aspect of it, but both he and William have shown that it's something they consider to be a part of their lives. The Royal Duties is as much their job as their military service, and both seem to accept that eventually being full time Royals is their future. Every expectation seems to be that with time the senior Royals will do less while William, Catherine, and Harry do more, and none of them have given us any reason to believe that this is contrary to their own desires.

If it was, then Harry could theoretically give it up for love (or whatever reason) and hope that in doing so the press will stop following him (which seems highly unlikely). Except to give up the Royal Life is to go back on his destiny so to speak and to renege on his duty. Sure, Harry might come across as immature and reckless at times, but I can't see his family calmly accept him giving it up. In my mind, with an understanding of how the BRF reacted to the abdication, to give up being Royal would entail giving up being a member of the family. I can't see HM or The DoE calmly accepting Harry's resignation and allowing him to stick around in the background at Balmoral, not can I see The PoW doing so either. Harry might retain relationships with them, but they'd be strained at best. Similarly his relationship would become strained with William.

Furthermore, what kind of woman would really ask someone to give up his job, his life, and likely his family? That doesn't sound like his one true love to me, that sounds like someone who's demanding and a bit selfish. While I think Harry and Chelsy may have been great together, if she had in fact asked him to give it up before they got married I would have thought less of her for asking and him for doing so. And that's assuming that Chelsy was in reality the love of his life. We don't know that, and when it comes down to it really we have no reason to believe so. Chelsy was a girl he dated, yes for a long time, but note the past tense. She is now his friend, nothing more. Both appear to have moved on, both may still find the love of their life. For all we know, the love of Harry's life could be Cressida Bonas, we don't know yet.
Thank you for a really good post. I agree with you that being Royal is an intrinsic part of Harry and I too would wonder about anyone asking him to give it all up. Sacrifice is not a good basis for any relationship.

The only part I dont agree with is your view on how the royal family would react. The key reason for the strict approach to banning the Duke of Windsor from the country was because he had been king. He had been popular as Prince of Wales and the government of the day were worried about factions developing. Harry is only 3rd (and getting lower) in line to the throne. I think that if Harry wanted to give up his position, then I think we live in more understanding times. His father, for whom Camilla was "non-negotiable" would certainly try and guide him.

But I don't think it will happen. He has set out his future publically as a working member of the BRF and hopefully he'll find someone who loves him enough, and is resiliant enough, to work along side him.
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  #132  
Old 02-27-2013, 04:27 PM
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Thank you for a really good post. I agree with you that being Royal is an intrinsic part of Harry and I too would wonder about anyone asking him to give it all up. Sacrifice is not a good basis for any relationship.
I agree, but the woman who marries Harry is going to have to make a HUGE sacrifice. Not only will she be expected to abandon her own dreams and aspirations for herself career-wise and be prepared to take on a lifetime job assisting her husband doing his job, but she will have to accept that she will never again have a moment's privacy and will always have to be on her toes and her best behaviour for fear of being caught out by press or photographer.

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The only part I don't agree with is your view on how the royal family would react. The key reason for the strict approach to banning the Duke of Windsor from the country was because he had been king. He had been popular as Prince of Wales and the government of the day were worried about factions developing. Harry is only 3rd (and getting lower) in line to the throne. I think that if Harry wanted to give up his position, then I think we live in more understanding times. His father, for whom Camilla was "non-negotiable" would certainly try and guide him.
I agree. The Duke of Windsor's position was quite different.

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But I don't think it will happen. He has set out his future publically as a working member of the BRF and hopefully he'll find someone who loves him enough, and is resiliant enough, to work along side him.
I don't think it will happen, either. But it's going to very much harder for him to find someone who will marry him than it would if he didn't have the RF and Diana baggage. Not only does he have to find someone he cares enough about to want to marry, and who also cares enough about him to want to marry him, but she will also have to be acceptable and appropriate to be his wife and will also have to be prepared to give up everything she will have to give up. I don't envy him.
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  #133  
Old 02-27-2013, 04:58 PM
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but it can be done - it has been done.

Prince PHilip has had to put aside some of his natural assertiveness and walk behind his wife for over 60 years; Catherine is succeeding and I think will be a strong consort for William; and then there is Camilla who has overcome more than anyone of us can imagine to spend the remainderof her life with the man she loves - and he is not an easy character but their mutual love gets them through it.

What these three had was privacy in the early, nurturing days and that is what Harry also needs but is the hardest to find. What he needs is a really strong wall of silence - and his future wife needs to keep very very quiet. So there needs to be trust not early in the relationship, but immediately in the relationship. Tricky!
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  #134  
Old 02-27-2013, 05:20 PM
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but it can be done - it has been done.

Prince PHilip has had to put aside some of his natural assertiveness and walk behind his wife for over 60 years; Catherine is succeeding and I think will be a strong consort for William; and then there is Camilla who has overcome more than anyone of us can imagine to spend the remainderof her life with the man she loves - and he is not an easy character but their mutual love gets them through it.

What these three had was privacy in the early, nurturing days and that is what Harry also needs but is the hardest to find. What he needs is a really strong wall of silence - and his future wife needs to keep very very quiet. So there needs to be trust not early in the relationship, but immediately in the relationship. Tricky!
Phillip belonged to the old school, not just royals, but humans in general. The older generations tend to put duty before notions of personal fulfillment, etc. My understanding is that while Phillip did so, it was not without an awful lot of behind the scenes unpleasantness, to say the least.

As for Kate, Kate is a quiet introvert, it seems, much like William. They two are well suited in that regards. But Harry is a jovial extrovert, and I think his choice of bride will be much the same. Will was lucky in that a person well suited to him is someone who is not extroverted. If Harry chooses someone like him, as I think Chelsy was, she will find it a lot harder to settle into royal life than Kate. It's going to be harder. That and the fact that with social media the press knows everything about them and seems more than happy to write the Harry and girlfriend storyline in whatever manner they see fit.

As for Camilla, I think with age comes wisdom, and she seems to be able to put things in a perspective a woman in her 20's cannot do. She had already been so vilified for years that marriage to Charles and entrance into the BRF was some sort of coup for her.

Every person is different and came to the BRF with different expectations, personalities and history. You can't compare them.
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  #135  
Old 02-27-2013, 05:28 PM
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So it can be done - thats my point
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  #136  
Old 02-27-2013, 06:15 PM
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Oh, it certainly can be done, but you've got to find the right person, and Harry will have a much harder job of finding her than most people.

As for Philip, I think the fact Elizabeth allowed him to be the head honcho in their private lives made a difference.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:30 PM
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ive always said that he will suffer for not having the privacy that others have had - William's protection at school until he left university enabled him to build relationships.
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  #138  
Old 02-27-2013, 08:24 PM
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Certainly you are correct, Cepe, that the Duke of Windsor's position was entirely different from others, because he was king. He was thus considered to have a religious position of trust, although he was not "coronated" with a ceremony (so far as I know) in which he promised as Elizabeth did to serve all his life, with God's help. Queen Mary never spoke to him again, i have read. Very hard to live with that rejection of one's mother, even if the mother was a cold individual to him in the past.

Lumutqueen, I guess people can go into business without a business degree if they have connections and are personable, things Harry has in great quantity. Having an economics degree from London School of Economics, as Princess Alexandra of Denmark has (and others, I think including Amadeo of Belgium) is not required to be the "face" of a business enterprise. Behind the screen the "thinkers" figure out economic things, people such as Guillaume and Henri of Luxembourg do this, even their wives do this, but Harry would catch on to the necessary parts if he went into business.
But my comment was perhaps pointless; he will continue in the royal life, and eventually will marry, and may he do well in both.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:44 PM
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I agree, but the woman who marries Harry is going to have to make a HUGE sacrifice. Not only will she be expected to abandon her own dreams and aspirations for herself career-wise and be prepared to take on a lifetime job assisting her husband doing his job, but she will have to accept that she will never again have a moment's privacy and will always have to be on her toes and her best behaviour for fear of being caught out by press or photographer.
You're absolutely right about the sacrifice Harry's future wife will have to make. It's for this precise reason that William and Kate's first few years of marriage as only part-time working royals is so vitally important. They, like Princess Elizabeth and Prince Philip, need that time to experience married life, to try and make the transition from private citizen to public figure and to build the foundations on which a potential 6 decades of public service will be based.

The Cambridges get ripped to shreds by many here and elsewhere for taking that time at the start of their marriage and for being so protective of it. We want to see them in tiaras and uniforms and sashes, visiting other royals, giving interviews, providing the press with daily pictures for us to scrutinise and critique. I know their relationship is a decade old, but becoming public property as Kate has cannot be easy, no matter how long they dated beforehand.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:55 PM
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Thank you for a really good post. I agree with you that being Royal is an intrinsic part of Harry and I too would wonder about anyone asking him to give it all up. Sacrifice is not a good basis for any relationship.

The only part I dont agree with is your view on how the royal family would react. The key reason for the strict approach to banning the Duke of Windsor from the country was because he had been king. He had been popular as Prince of Wales and the government of the day were worried about factions developing. Harry is only 3rd (and getting lower) in line to the throne. I think that if Harry wanted to give up his position, then I think we live in more understanding times. His father, for whom Camilla was "non-negotiable" would certainly try and guide him.

But I don't think it will happen. He has set out his future publically as a working member of the BRF and hopefully he'll find someone who loves him enough, and is resiliant enough, to work along side him.
Perhaps you're right and I'm just cynical. Actually, I am just cynical regardless of whether or not you're right.

I do agree with the idea the BRF has shown that they can make love work - Charles said Camilla was non-negotiable and wouldn't take no for an answer, and thus made it work. The difference there, however is that he was making it clear that while he would have given up the life for Camilla, the family chose to accept her to keep him. This situation is that Harry would give up the life for the hypothetical girl. Even though he's not the heir, and his place as the spare is being displaced by the imminent birth of William's child, he would still be turning his back on what he's been raised to do.
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