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  #181  
Old 05-19-2015, 12:49 PM
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The West has been doing charity work in Africa for the last 70 yrs. The result is negligent, but still... Should we stop doing that as well? I'd be for it to be honest. It sometimes seems charity work there does more harm than good.
The thing is that I don't think we could actually hang the label of "charity" on what Harry is going to Africa to do. He's not going as a prince to raise awareness of anything nor will he be speaking out on any causes or patronages but rather he's going as Harry the man to get inside experience of exactly what it is that the people involved in conservation efforts actually do day in and day out. If I were to have to compare this trip of Harry's to Africa to anything else, the closest I think I could come would be when William spent 10 weeks in Chili with the Raleigh International. The primary reason William went was to make a difference and in the long run, that is what Harry aims to do.

In order to understand and actually be believed as credible, one has to have a good, working knowledge of what they're talking about. Harry has always been a very "hands on" type of person which I believe we've seen evidence of in his work with Walking With the Wounded. It would have been far easier for Harry to stand up and extol how brave and courageous it was for those that did the trek to the North and South poles than to have actually experienced it first hand with them. He was willing to go the extra miles, so to speak, to add even more credibility to what he was talking about when it came to what wounded service people can accomplish.

This trip to Africa will be for Harry like an internship to learn from the professionals what conservation entails and to get a first hand working knowledge of how its done. To me, this shows commitment.
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  #182  
Old 05-19-2015, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
The West has been doing charity work in Africa for the last 70 yrs. The result is negligent, but still... Should we stop doing that as well? I'd be for it to be honest. It sometimes seems charity work there does more harm than good.
A big problem is the corruption in the country. Tons of food, money, medical supplies have been poured into Africa...unfortunately the criminals get hold of it (and sometimes that is the government in place as well) and sell it on the black market etc.

I don't see that the charitable work has caused any harm at all. They just do what little they can to help the people in a country that is still war torn and has major problems with disease etc.


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  #183  
Old 05-19-2015, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The thing is that I don't think we could actually hang the label of "charity" on what Harry is going to Africa to do. He's not going as a prince to raise awareness of anything nor will he be speaking out on any causes or patronages but rather he's going as Harry the man to get inside experience of exactly what it is that the people involved in conservation efforts actually do day in and day out. If I were to have to compare this trip of Harry's to Africa to anything else, the closest I think I could come would be when William spent 10 weeks in Chili with the Raleigh International. The primary reason William went was to make a difference and in the long run, that is what Harry aims to do.

In order to understand and actually be believed as credible, one has to have a good, working knowledge of what they're talking about. Harry has always been a very "hands on" type of person which I believe we've seen evidence of in his work with Walking With the Wounded. It would have been far easier for Harry to stand up and extol how brave and courageous it was for those that did the trek to the North and South poles than to have actually experienced it first hand with them. He was willing to go the extra miles, so to speak, to add even more credibility to what he was talking about when it came to what wounded service people can accomplish.

This trip to Africa will be for Harry like an internship to learn from the professionals what conservation entails and to get a first hand working knowledge of how its done. To me, this shows commitment.
I agree. But some people believe that what he does is in fact charity and charity is demeaning to the people there so... I commend his effort to try and find out what this is all about. Far too many people talk about things they haven’t seen first hand. Is it easy for him to say?? Yes. He’s wealthy, but he’s trying and that’s worth a lot.

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A big problem is the corruption in the country. Tons of food, money, medical supplies have been poured into Africa...unfortunately the criminals get hold of it (and sometimes that is the government in place as well) and sell it on the black market etc.

I don't see that the charitable work has caused any harm at all. They just do what little they can to help the people in a country that is still war torn and has major problems with disease etc.


LaRae
A neighbor of my parents used to be in the Dutch government and used to work in Brussels at the EU and was very involved in charity in Africa, he has said it didn’t work. Is part of the problem caused by corrupt governments?? Yes, absolutely. But in part I guess also because these charity organizations (the people at the top I mean) want to keep themselves in business. I don’t really know what the best solution would be. I do feel this isn’t really working.

And here I’m not really talking about small charities started by people who help people directly. I’m talking about the big organizations.
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  #184  
Old 05-19-2015, 04:05 PM
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Yeah there are very few charities I would or do donate to because of how the funds are used. Have to research everything first.


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  #185  
Old 05-19-2015, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Yeah there are very few charities I would or do donate to because of how the funds are used. Have to research everything first.
Unfortunately this is all too true in all parts of the world. Its saddening that when a disaster strikes, CNN needs to remind people that there will be those out there using a "relief fund" as a scam and to be wary when asked to donate. Some charities have been proven to actually donate very little percentage of what they take in to the actual cause.

Part of the Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry is centered on conservation with United for Wildlife and with this upcoming 3 month hands on experience that Harry is going to be doing in Africa, tells me he's starting to get hands on and we'll be seeing him work more in this area as time goes by. It explains the "why Africa?" angle too instead of closer to home in the UK. From what I've seen, United for Wildlife has its focus on conservation world wide with quite a few international backers.

Another aspect of what's next for Harry is an all important topic I think we could start talking about and laying odds on and all those little ins and outs that we're so good at doing here is...

(drumroll)

Now that Harry will be out of the military and able to spend more time at home in Nottingham cottage, when do you think we'll see Harry adopting a puppy? As much as he loves animals, I just can't fathom him living without a devoted pet to come home to. It wasn't feasible while he was in the military but now that he's back in civilian life, he needs a dog. Oh... and its reputed that puppies are chick magnets too right?
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  #186  
Old 05-19-2015, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Unfortunately this is all too true in all parts of the world. Its saddening that when a disaster strikes, CNN needs to remind people that there will be those out there using a "relief fund" as a scam and to be wary when asked to donate. Some charities have been proven to actually donate very little percentage of what they take in to the actual cause.

Part of the Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry is centered on conservation with United for Wildlife and with this upcoming 3 month hands on experience that Harry is going to be doing in Africa, tells me he's starting to get hands on and we'll be seeing him work more in this area as time goes by. It explains the "why Africa?" angle too instead of closer to home in the UK. From what I've seen, United for Wildlife has its focus on conservation world wide with quite a few international backers.

Another aspect of what's next for Harry is an all important topic I think we could start talking about and laying odds on and all those little ins and outs that we're so good at doing here is...

(drumroll)

Now that Harry will be out of the military and able to spend more time at home in Nottingham cottage, when do you think we'll see Harry adopting a puppy? As much as he loves animals, I just can't fathom him living without a devoted pet to come home to. It wasn't feasible while he was in the military but now that he's back in civilian life, he needs a dog. Oh... and its reputed that puppies are chick magnets too right?
To me it makes perfect sense that Harry would get involved in a wildlife charity. It's been pretty clear over the years he and William both have a love for Africa and have been pretty hands on with various charities when time allowed.

I don't think we will see much of him in Nottingham for some time...I look for him to spend quite a bit of time going and doing out of the country unless he's needed in the U.K. for some royal event etc.

So that said...don't think he'll be getting a pet for awhile..not till he settles down more.


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  #187  
Old 05-19-2015, 05:27 PM
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Prince Harry Leaving the Army (June 2015): What will he do now?

Oohhh... Harry and a puppy.... 😍


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  #188  
Old 05-19-2015, 07:12 PM
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Most conservation does not work.

The Brits imported grey squirrels from North American to help immunize the red squirrel population. It did not work and the red squirrel population continued to decrease. The Brit's solution is to kill the grey squirrels. Is this the type of conservation Harry is interested in reproducing in Africa?

Europeans decided to save the African elephant from poachers by placing the elephants in game reserves this made it easier for poachers to kill the elephants.

The main problem is the conflict with humans and the African elephants' range through multiple countries. How do William and Harry expect to solve this problem? Going on safari for 3 months or giving speeches in Switzerland is not the solution.

Let see if Harry and William are willing to see first hand what the real problem is by walking the walk. In other words, give up the houses, the staff, the body guards, the life of privilege and go live in Africa with the people, under the same conditions and with the same limited resources.

After 3 years, then Harry and William can talk about conservation. While William and Harry are in Africa they can explain to the children why it is wrong to kill the elephants that destroyed their family's entire crop and their primary source of food but it is okay to kill a wild boar for fun.

I am sure everyone in the world would be fascinated by the explanation, as we watch live William and Harry's adventures in Africa.

Oops there are no computers, cellphones or running water in these villages.
I guess we will have to wait until William and Harry return in 3 years time.

And while they are having their African adventure, how about if William gives Anmer Hall to an African family, oh wait that house is large enough to support a village. Another village can have Apt 1A. I wonder how many African families would think Nottingham cottage it too small for 3 people.

The London bookies would make a fortune betting on how long William and Harry will last in their real African adventure. Would William adapt or will Harry? How would Kate look after 3 years in Africa? Would George want to return to Apt 1A after he has seen elephants and tigers inside his home? And Charlotte would love the advantages of being vaccine free and testing her genes against malaria and the host of lovely tropical ailments.

After 3 years William and Harry can write their report on conservation in Africa.

The African children can write their report on the conservation of the grey squirrel, the badger and the wild boar.

The entire world would judge who adapted better and who had a better solution for conservation.
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  #189  
Old 05-19-2015, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The thing is that I don't think we could actually hang the label of "charity" on what Harry is going to Africa to do. He's not going as a prince to raise awareness of anything nor will he be speaking out on any causes or patronages but rather he's going as Harry the man to get inside experience of exactly what it is that the people involved in conservation efforts actually do day in and day out. If I were to have to compare this trip of Harry's to Africa to anything else, the closest I think I could come would be when William spent 10 weeks in Chili with the Raleigh International. The primary reason William went was to make a difference and in the long run, that is what Harry aims to do.

In order to understand and actually be believed as credible, one has to have a good, working knowledge of what they're talking about. Harry has always been a very "hands on" type of person which I believe we've seen evidence of in his work with Walking With the Wounded. It would have been far easier for Harry to stand up and extol how brave and courageous it was for those that did the trek to the North and South poles than to have actually experienced it first hand with them. He was willing to go the extra miles, so to speak, to add even more credibility to what he was talking about when it came to what wounded service people can accomplish.

This trip to Africa will be for Harry like an internship to learn from the professionals what conservation entails and to get a first hand working knowledge of how its done. To me, this shows commitment.
This is how I see what he's doing, too. "Hands on" seems to be his style and I think his way is to work with local organisations to benefit them in the long term, not just impose short-term "band-aid" solutions. I hope we're right. I think we are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Most conservation does not work.
You're probably right, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying.

Humans are responsible for many of the environmental problems, so it behooves us to try to fix them. Modern medicine and agricultural practices have interfered with the natural balance by increasing human populations and those populations require ever-increasing amounts of land, which reduces the land available to the animals, and also the plants on which many animals rely for their survival. There is bound to be conflict. What we have to do is work out sustainable solutions to that conflict between the competing interests of man and animal.

There are local conservation groups in the poorer African and Asian and South American countries and it is important to encourage and assist those groups because they are the ones who will ultimately be responsible for conservation in the long term.
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  #190  
Old 05-19-2015, 07:56 PM
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I agree Roslyn.
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  #191  
Old 05-19-2015, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Most conservation does not work.

Not going to list the many that have but here are a few:

1. The American Bison

From herds numbering tens of millions, Bison (Bison bison) were hunted down to as few as 750 animals in the 1890s. Between 1868 and 1881, 31 million were slaughtered by hunters and fur traders. However, like the North American gray wolf, the bison has made a remarkable comeback. Through conservation initiatives, re-introduction, population management and the development of the bison meat industry, the population has rebounded to around 350,000 individuals.

2. Wildlife reserves cover 10% of the Earth's land

In 1872 Yellowstone National Park in the US became the world's first modern wildlife reserve - now there are 44,000. This growth is described as "one of the greatest conservation achievements of the twentieth century" by the IUCN. The areas cover almost 14 million km2, an area equivalent in size to India and China combined. In 2004, Brazil established the world's largest reserve, Tumucumaque National Park, which is larger than Belgium. The growth in protected areas is because "the public have recognised the impact we are having on the environment", says McNeely of the IUCN

3. Halting decline of Pandas
4. Increasing polinators
5. Increasing Grizzly bear population

etc.

We can sit on our hands and do nothing or make the attempt. Criticising anyone for making the attempt seems counter-productive to me.

Good luck to Harry and anyone else who at least gets off their butts and tries.
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  #192  
Old 05-19-2015, 09:39 PM
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Yes thank you very much.

When Princess Anne made the comment about about improving the treatment of horses by suggesting horses as a food commodity the media and several people on this forum ridiculed her.

I am sure if I had made the same comment about making endangered species a food item, I too would have been ridiculed.

Some people only read and hear what they want to read and hear and only from people they want to hear or read about and then attribute decades of work to the one person they read about.

You only need to read the previous 3 or 4 pages.

And some people have been involved in conservation and know the difference between conservation in the West and conservation in Africa and Asia. Not everyone was sitting on their butts waiting for William and Harry.

A conservation effort that may work in the short term may fail in the long term.
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  #193  
Old 05-19-2015, 09:51 PM
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So no-one should try any conservation projects in non-Western countries because their efforts are bound to fail? Thank God not everyone shares that view! Harry is going to Africa to try and assist there. No more, no less. You would think he would be applauded for at least trying, but apparently not!
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  #194  
Old 05-19-2015, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
So no-one should try any conservation projects in non-Western countries because their efforts are bound to fail? Thank God not everyone shares that view! Harry is going to Africa to try and assist there. No more, no less. You would think he would be applauded for at least trying, but apparently not!
What it boils down to is that Harry is going to Africa to work with African professionals that specialize in the conservation efforts for the local environs. He doesn't need to give up 3 years of his life nor give away residences or titles or any of the "perks" he shares with his family to be hands on and actually becoming educated and aware of what efforts are needed. As far as either William and/or Harry giving up their residences to African families as has been suggested earlier, that can't happen as in actuality, they don't own any property to give up in the first place.

Where I believe that Harry will make his biggest and best contribution to conservation and sustainability of wildlife anywhere will be with what he's already got set up in The Royal Foundation. Yes its a position that more or less spearheads the entire operation and he won't be doing the day to day grunt work but at least he'll have the knowledge of what the grunt work actually involves on the African front. The professionals and the volunteers and the people that get things done most likely wouldn't be able to do what they do as well if it wasn't for people like Harry or William making "speeches" to draw attention to areas that need assistance and hold $5,000 a plate fund raiser dinners (which people beg and plead to be able to get on the guest list and attend) and get Mr. Deep Pockets and Ms. Socia Lelite to be generous with their checkbooks.

Lest we forget, Harry also has other passions he's involved with. Working with wounded service personnel and his Sentebale for HIV affected children in Lesotho with Prince Seeiso. Harry has stated that he would like his post military roles to be working with children and animals and its my opinion, he's got a pretty good start into building a well rounded area of being involved to make a difference.

I do still think he needs a dog though. I don't know who would be cuter in a picture. A puppy or Harry playing with the puppy.
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  #195  
Old 05-19-2015, 11:36 PM
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Far too much emphasis on dogs in that family, for my liking. I'd like Harry to have a couple of cats.
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  #196  
Old 05-20-2015, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Yes thank you very much.

When Princess Anne made the comment about about improving the treatment of horses by suggesting horses as a food commodity the media and several people on this forum ridiculed her.

I am sure if I had made the same comment about making endangered species a food item, I too would have been ridiculed.

Some people only read and hear what they want to read and hear and only from people they want to hear or read about and then attribute decades of work to the one person they read about.

You only need to read the previous 3 or 4 pages.

And some people have been involved in conservation and know the difference between conservation in the West and conservation in Africa and Asia. Not everyone was sitting on their butts waiting for William and Harry.

A conservation effort that may work in the short term may fail in the long term.
BTW...Did Harry say he would be chasing animals in Africa, yes he did. However the rest of the quote is that it will be as part of a team taking part in Conservation Efforts. Which considering I've actually watched what happens during these kinds of Missions thanks to a Cousin of mine, who did exactly what Harry will be doing a couple of years ago, I can assure you this has nothing to w/hunting.

He brought along a DVD to show us when he came up for that year's Family Reunion and did he chase Animals? Yes, in order to make sure that first, the drugs in the dart were both working *and* making sure they weren't having any other effect than sending it off to Dreamland. Once said Animal was out, the Team he worked w/checked it out completely to ensure it was in good health and weight. Then either a tracking collar or device was put on it, or in a couple of situations needing to be swapped out for various reasons, or the Animal was tagged for future follow ups and tracking. Once all was done, they moved off to keep watch that it recovered properly from the Meds in the dart and after they were positive beyond a doubt it was fine, they were back in the helicopter and off to "chase down" the next, in his case, Elephant to do the same to it.

That is part of what Harry will be doing in Africa and as another Member said, will stand him in excellent stead when it's time for him to make a Speech about Wildlife Conservation to a room full of possible donors at a Fundraising Dinner on behalf of The Royal Foundation some time down the road. I know I would pay attention to someone who has been there, done that far more than a Figurehead who hasn't.

I wish Harry an amazing time and that this Trip is everything he wants it to be.






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  #197  
Old 05-20-2015, 12:42 AM
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I wish Harry well too and I haven't bothered to read the hate filled posts not what I come on here for


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  #198  
Old 05-20-2015, 01:15 AM
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Harry could have a red setter, perhaps, or a Labrador. No corgis. It's true. The royal family is awash with canines. Only Princess Michael goes against the flow.
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  #199  
Old 05-20-2015, 03:39 AM
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I'd just like to point out that this has been a very interesting discussion for me and I've enjoyed it immensely. No where have I seen any indication of "hate" or malicious content or anything other than different points of view that each and every one of us is entitled to.

It would be so totally boring if we all shared the same opinions and the same outlook on things.
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
Most conservation does not work.
Cepe went on to refute the conservation does not work statement.
I'd also add the recovery of many species of birds of prey from near extinction in the 1960s. The use of DDT at the time thinned eggshells, making viable reproduction unlikely. Populations plummeted.
A ban on DDT as well as other conservation regulations saved these species from extinction. In the comeback, some species (the American Bald Eagle is one) also adapted to new habitats. The combination of these factors have led to robust populations of many bird of prey species in my country.
It's one of my favorite examples of how conservation efforts succeed beyond expectations.
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