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  #321  
Old 07-12-2015, 11:54 AM
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How very nice. Thanks Osipi.
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  #322  
Old 07-12-2015, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by AfricanAUSSIE View Post
Thank you Pranter.

Sounds like they shoot for the thrill though. Not cool. I would be more impressed if he posed next to a plate of beautifully cooked (not endangered) game. I mean, isn't that all the rage now? Taking pictures of delicious food beautifully arranged on a plate and it would totally change the message. :big grin:

I hope he has had a change of heart and now works to stop others from senseless killing for thrill or profit...or both. If so, he should mention it. Now that would be impressive!!

Well I believe that part of conservation is hunting. You see that here in the U.S. Conservation departments in states balance that out pretty well. If the populations become unbalanced the either reduce allowed hunting or they increase it depending on the need.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying hunting. Why should a person that hunts hate it? The only thing I would take issue with would be if the meat was not used. As long as the meat is used I'm good.


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  #323  
Old 07-12-2015, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
IIRC Pink is heavily involved in PETA stuff and IIRC may be vegetarian or vegan...so if there's any truth to the Harry story that would be why.


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Pink describes herself as "mostly vegan" but she does on occasion eat chicken and fish. She has been heavily involved with PETA in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanAUSSIE View Post
Thank you Pranter.



Sounds like they shoot for the thrill though. Not cool. I would be more impressed if he posed next to a plate of beautifully cooked (not endangered) game. I mean, isn't that all the rage now? Taking pictures of delicious food beautifully arranged on a plate and it would totally change the message. :big grin:



I hope he has had a change of heart and now works to stop others from senseless killing for thrill or profit...or both. If so, he should mention it. Now that would be impressive!!

Yours comes across as a rather emotional reaction to something you don't entirely understand.

In today's day and age, those in the First World have no reason to hunt unless they enjoy it. It's not necessarily a "thrill" but rather a pastime or activity that they enjoy.

At the same time though, there continues to be a huge difference between poaching, hunting for trophies, hunting for conservation, and hunting for sustenance.

Poaching is the hunting of endangered animals, hunting without licensing or outside of legal hours or legal seasons, or using prohibited methods of hunting.

Trophy hunting is the hunting of game for the purpose of keeping parts of the slain animal as a trophy - this can be done in conjunction with sustenance hunting, as the meat itself can still be used as food, while the skin, antlers, and head can all be used as trophies.

Conservation hunting is hunting a specific animal for the purpose of carefully thinning the bread in order to ensure the conservation of an area. This isn't done to the point of extinction, but rather to prevent overpopulation.

Sustenance hunting, of course, is for sustenance.

We've seen William and Harry partake in conservation hunting - their hunting trip to Spain last year(?) for wild boar would count as such, and we've also seen them oppose poaching. I would probably say that their primary means of hunting though is a cross between trophy hunting and sustenance hunting; they don't waste the animals that they kill and even if they themselves aren't eating it, the meat is donated to someone who will eat it, but at the same time they do take their trophies - they have their pictures of themselves beside the animals they've slain. This is a part of the culture of hunting, and if the meat isn't being wasted then what right does anyone who eats meat themselves have to criticize them for this?
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  #324  
Old 07-12-2015, 06:07 PM
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Location! Location! Location!

I see nothing wrong with them hunting pheasants at Sandringham but when they go to other countries it is trophy hunting and not conservation.

The pheasants at Sandringham are raised and looked after by staff.
The pheasants are similar to free range chickens.
The kill is used as food.

The water buffalo was not raised by humans.

William and Harry are not employed as rangers to selectively kill diseased or old animals or to reduce the population inorder to maintain balance.

These are the reasons why I see William and Harry's killing of wild animals as being hypocrites. They are trophy hunting.
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  #325  
Old 07-12-2015, 07:28 PM
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Why are you lumping William in with Harry with Buffalo hunting?
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  #326  
Old 07-12-2015, 07:38 PM
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Prince Harry Current Events 28: April 2015

The buffalo that Harry (not William) shot is a Cape Buffalo also known as an African Buffalo. Not a water buffalo.

It's not an endangered species and it's rated as least concerned by IUCN which monitors animal populations and rate them on the extinct risk.




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  #327  
Old 07-12-2015, 08:24 PM
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Who cares if they are trophy hunting...as long as the meat is used and it's not an endangered species it shouldn't matter.


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  #328  
Old 07-12-2015, 09:08 PM
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Prince Harry Current Events 28: April 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Yours comes across as a rather emotional reaction to something you don't entirely understand.

In today's day and age, those in the First World have no reason to hunt unless they enjoy it. It's not necessarily a "thrill" but rather a pastime or activity that they enjoy.

*snip*

At the same time though, there continues to be a huge difference between poaching, hunting for trophies, hunting for conservation, and hunting for sustenance.

We've seen William and Harry partake in conservation hunting - their hunting trip to Spain last year(?) for wild boar would count as such, and we've also seen them oppose poaching. I would probably say that their primary means of hunting though is a cross between trophy hunting and sustenance hunting; they don't waste the animals that they kill and even if they themselves aren't eating it, the meat is donated to someone who will eat it, but at the same time they do take their trophies - they have their pictures of themselves beside the animals they've slain. This is a part of the culture of hunting, and if the meat isn't being wasted then what right does anyone who eats meat themselves have to criticize them for this?

The part I bolded up there is only partly true. We live in a very Rural part of Northeastern Ontario and our Grocery Bills are high enough due to the distance between us and the Nearest City it's trucked in from, but if we didn't hunt and have that Deer Meat, I don't even want to think what those bills would be. Sure we buy meat, like Chicken, Ham and other types, but nothing like most People do and not that often because of the Venison we have.

That second part is one of the best posts I've yet seen in an attempt to explain William and Harry taking on Conservation as one of their main causes and yet still going out Hunting. There are indeed differences, but for those who wish to continue believing otherwise...Thank you for trying though.

And in a Preemptive Attempt of my own...Last I looked Water Buffalo aren't on any Endangered Species List I know of. Their Habitat OTOH W/out a doubt is and due to that, they're starting to head into areas they don't belong and becoming a nuisance. Sadly most Nuisance Animals do need to be hunted down, because once they've moved into settled land and found easy food for them in the form of Garbage or Gardens, they're there to stay. Would you want to face a Water Buffalo defending your Garden as it's territory? I certainly wouldn't.

So Harry went on a Water Buffalo hunt and had his picture taken w/it and...? The way some are reacting, you'd think we were talking about Juan Carlos' infamous Elephant Hunt. This is not on the same level no matter how much you scream, rant and rave about it.

Sadly this one of those issues where you're either willing to listen and learn there is a difference between responsible hunting and that it does have a place and part in Conservation work or the Propaganda put out by PETA and other so called organizations (I don't mean the WWF or United for Wildlife or others like them) on the same low level they are. IMHO, they have brainwashed so many w/so much misinformation about issues to do w/Animal Welfare and Conservation, they've actually caused more problems for everyone concerning Animal Welfare and Conservation Issues.





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  #329  
Old 07-12-2015, 09:13 PM
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Lots of people here in the midwest hunt for food as a necessity. A 20.00 deer tag (or other game) can get you quite a bit of meat. The state I live in has over 1 million deer...and they reintroduced elk a few years ago as well...already having hunts (small amounts of tags) on them.

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  #330  
Old 07-12-2015, 11:26 PM
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The deer population in our small city has become so bad the city called in sharp shooters to thin the herd. The meat was all donated to a food pantry. They even took donations to process it. True conservation helps keep everything in balane.
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  #331  
Old 07-13-2015, 12:19 AM
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I have no issues with game hunting. It is not at all the same as poaching. Here in rural Northern Ontario there are very strict rules about hunting. And if you are caught breaking those rules there are significant penalities. And so there should be. There are many families in this area that depend on the meat they get during hunting season. IMO hunting is a more honest way of eating meat. Now I have problems hunting but that is only because I am unable to shot an animal. But I have no issues with others doing so.
Harry's time in Africa is to help with conservation and help stop illegal activities. I do not see any hypocrisy in him doing that and legally hunting.
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  #332  
Old 07-13-2015, 01:14 AM
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Hunting for sustenance is no different from raising a cow for the purpose of eating the meat. And let's not forget the issue of keeping cows lactating for years so humans can have its milk.

Hunting is certainly a pastime for some but as long as the meat is being eaten and nothing is wasted it is just one less cow that is being killed.

Great to see Prince Harry involved in wildlife conservation. If it informs more people about the devastating impact of poaching, then great job, Prince.
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  #333  
Old 07-13-2015, 06:28 AM
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Time to return the discussion back to Prince Harry's Current Events and away from general discussions concerning hunting, fishing, shooting, meat-eating etc as this could be done in the General Discussion and Games area:

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f187/
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  #334  
Old 07-13-2015, 07:21 AM
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Prince Harry warned against turning Namibia visit into publicity stunt, SEBASTIAN SHAKESPEARE says | Daily Mail Online
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  #335  
Old 07-13-2015, 07:28 AM
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But while some might expect the Namibian government to be flattered by Harry’s attempts to help save its wildlife, the country’s Minister of Environment and Tourism, Pohamba Shifeta, has warned against the royal trip turning into a publicity stunt.

‘Harry is not the first prominent person to visit Namibia and get involved with its conservation projects. We receive a lot of prominent people,’ he remarked at the weekend. ‘We appreciate this, but we don’t want it to turn into a public relations exercise.’

Shifeta, whose spokesman claimed the ministry wasn’t even aware of Harry’s arrival two weeks ago, also defended Namibia’s tolerance of so-called ‘trophy hunting’, the legal hunting of rare and endangered species.
That's different.
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  #336  
Old 07-13-2015, 01:04 PM
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And depending what you read and/or who edits it you can get another slant on the story

allAfrica.com: Namibia: Media Urged to Respect Harry's Privacy

QUOTE:
The Minister of Environment and Tourism has urged the local media to respect Prince Harry's privacy while he is in the country.

Minister Pohamba Shifeta said Prince Harry "is here on a private visit and he does not want anything [to do with the media],
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  #337  
Old 07-13-2015, 01:24 PM
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I don't think the two statements are incompatible. The minster states he wants local media to respect Harry's privacy but goes on to warn he doesn't want this to turn into a public relations exercise for Harry.

Western media has been reporting on Harry. Both the Express and Daily Mail have given us blow-by-blow updates as to what Harry plans to get up to in Namibia.

What I find odd from the minster's statement is despite Harry reportedly working hand-in-glove with the government of Namibia on poaching, the Minister of the Environment didn't know he even arrived in the country.
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  #338  
Old 07-13-2015, 09:54 PM
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I don't see why Harry should have gone off to Africa in the first place.
It doesn't seem like the local authorities appreciate or even desire his presence.

He should stay home and devote his efforts to UK charities, imo. As someone said, he is a British prince, not an African one.
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  #339  
Old 07-14-2015, 12:27 AM
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There are nineteen African countries in the Commonwealth, of which the Queen is head. Are they to be ignored then, except for official visits? It's clear that Charles has inspired both his sons with a concern for the environment and for conservation. Anything that will bring publicity to the vile poaching trade and to the loss of habitat of endangered animals is invaluable IMO. Actually working with those involved in trying to save these precious animals is worth it.

Superb pictures here. It was reported that Harry helped Dr Morkel sedate a lion named 'the Prince' and fit him with a new satellite collar.

http://www.desertlion.info/news.html
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  #340  
Old 07-14-2015, 12:40 AM
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He should stay home and devote his efforts to UK charities, imo. As someone said, he is a British prince, not an African one.
He is a British prince who is also part of The Royal Foundation of The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry which devotes itself to Conservation, the Armed Forces and Youth. Part of their conservation efforts include United for Wildlife which, according to the Foundation website:

"Through his Foundation, His Royal Highness The Duke of Cambridge has brought together an unprecedented collaboration between seven of the world’s most influential conservation organisations and the Royal Foundation of The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry. The partnership, named “United for Wildlife”, is a long-term commitment to tackle the global challenges to the world’s natural resources so they can be safeguarded for future generations. United for Wildlife is an unprecedented alliance between seven of the world’s most influential conservation organisations, led by the Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and Prince Harry. The partnership between Conservation International, Fauna & Flora International, International Union for Conservation of Nature, The Nature Conservancy, Wildlife Conservation Society, WWF-UK, the Zoological Society of London and the Royal Foundation will lead the way to substantially increase the global response to major conservation crises."

United for Wildlife | Royal Foundation

What Harry is doing in Africa ties in with this. He's getting down and dirty and actively finding out what is being done, what is needed to be done and the best way to go about doing it hands on. I kind of compare it with Harry's involvement with Walking with the Wounded to the north and south poles. He didn't only support and back their endeavors but actively shared it with them. This is our Harry giving 150% to what he is involved in and its this passion that I admire most in the man.
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