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  #121  
Old 06-06-2008, 08:45 AM
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I think calling the points raised by people 'whining' is rather insulting, whether you meant it to be or not. I see no need for William to have spent useless time in any of the services, by the time he is King it will all have changed. He will never be a real soldier, a real member of the services.I think you will find that the decision to place him in each of the services had little to do with William. From the very short time he has been with the Army, RAF and now Navy he will still have absolutely NO idea about the life of a real serviceman or woman. Even if he had been asked to do what normal servicemen and women have to do, he would have been as overly protected as Harry was, so it is an insult to real servicemen by suggesting that his little forays into each arm make him any more than someone playing at it.Why, he will not be allowed to become involved in anything political, any decision making. Why not just have him train as a Civil Servant, a Benefits LO1 officer perhaps, where he can learn how 1000's of less fortunate people are 'dealt' with.No press should have been allowed on site, he should have commenced his training without fanfare, just like ordinary service men and women. CH at least got that right with the ArmyI have never complained that they should be normal, I don't believe they should be 'sold' to us as normal, they are not being treated as normal, they are being treated as privileged young men. I never did welcome the approach of a 'normal' life. The royals are not approachable to the majority of people, just try getting past their security to give them a hug and you will find out just how approachable they can be! Only in your opinion of course!
Skydragon - I am just trying to understand what is it that you would think would be suitable training for William before he enters full time royal duties, given that you don't really think it is useful for him to either be in the forces or work as a civil servant for sometime. Extending your argument that relatively short stints in various roles are not of any real benefit to Will, I'm not sure how working as a Benefits officer for a brief time helps either! That said, I am not opposed to him doing an attachment there as well, though as a working royal he will get a lot of exposure to underpriveliged people; a stint as a benefits officer will not add very much to that! The idea of rotating W through the 3 forces may not have originally come from him, but I am sure he was reasonably involved in structuring his time in the forces.

I appreciate that you personally may prefer your royals stuffy and distant (and you are absolutely entitled to your views), but the vast majority of people in the Kingdom prefer to have them appear as approachable and "normal" as possible. This, if anything, was one of the lessons the BRF learnt in the 1990s! Security restrictions may mean that they are still cannot as accessible as some of us may like, but that the reality of the world we live in! I'm sure most senior royals would like to have less security present around them, than more.
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  #122  
Old 06-06-2008, 10:35 AM
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Skydragon - I am just trying to understand what is it that you would think would be suitable training for William before he enters full time royal duties, given that you don't really think it is useful for him to either be in the forces or work as a civil servant for sometime. Extending your argument that relatively short stints in various roles are not of any real benefit to Will, I'm not sure how working as a Benefits officer for a brief time helps either! That said, I am not opposed to him doing an attachment there as well, though as a working royal he will get a lot of exposure to underpriveliged people; a stint as a benefits officer will not add very much to that! The idea of rotating W through the 3 forces may not have originally come from him, but I am sure he was reasonably involved in structuring his time in the forces.
I think you are misreading/understanding what I have written. A time in the army was a great idea, although apparently he can never put his life on the line for his men or country, it would have taught him many things and allowed for the occasional 'charity' appearance. A longer term in any one of the services would have given him a little more knowledge than flitting from one arm to the next, never getting any idea of life for a real serviceman/woman. The idea of a few months as an LO1 was not something I suggested, in fact I merely suggested a job with them.

Why 'a stint' at any of them (including civil servant), why not a 'real' job, he probably won't be king for 30+ years, what is he going to do with that time?
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I appreciate that you personally may prefer your royals stuffy and distant (and you are absolutely entitled to your views), but the vast majority of people in the Kingdom prefer to have them appear as approachable and "normal" as possible. This, if anything, was one of the lessons the BRF learnt in the 1990s! .
Do they and did they? Many do want a return to core values, when we didn't know the colour of someones knickers, an end to the tell all celebrity culture. From what I have read many on this forum would like a return of the mystique of royalty, not the tell all debacle from the 90's. I don't find the royals 'stuffy' or 'distant', but then I never did, so there again you seem to have misunderstood.

Do you have any evidence at all to support your claim that 'the vast majority of the kingdom prefer to have them appear as approachable and 'normal' as possible'? They have changed their approach very little in the years since the tell all books and yet they still draw the crowds, it is still considered an honour by many to meet them, especially HM, who has not succumbed to the kissy/huggy approach.
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  #123  
Old 06-07-2008, 04:10 PM
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I think that having him work as an LO1 for period time would not be bad idea. If he would not feel that this horning in something his brothers becoming a Patron of his brother's charity. It not be a bad idea for Prince William start his own Veteran's support and job training program for injured veteran's like Help for Heroes possibily trough Centrepoint, Princes Trust, and what ever other organization might be able to help.

Has there been any word on wether William or Harry will be at the Trooping next Saturady? If William was would he be in his Army uniform or his RN uniform?
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  #124  
Old 06-08-2008, 07:31 AM
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A longer term in any one of the services would have given him a little more knowledge than flitting from one arm to the next, never getting any idea of life for a real serviceman/woman . . . . . . . . why not a 'real' job, he probably won't be king for 30+ years, what is he going to do with that time?
I absolutely agree. The old maxim of being a jack of all trades and a master of none really holds true here. It is only by mentoring by some of the smartest and wisest people around that the POW was able to make some sort of impact with his life, and that was a long hard row to hoe before it bore fruit. Ecologic issues are now to the forefront, but that boat has sailed. What is there left for William in the forseeable future? Nothing! The civil service is too politicised for him to work there and the debacle to Edward and Sophie trying to have a real job is sad but still stands as a warning. What else is there left for William in the short term, or even for the next 30+ years?

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Originally Posted by Skydragon
. . . Many do want a return to core values, when we didn't know the colour of someones knickers, an end to the tell all celebrity culture. . . . . . . many on this forum would like a return of the mystique of royalty, not the tell all debacle from the 90's.
This sort of intrusive hollywood "star" reality schlock really offends me. The debacle of the War of the Wales would never have taken place if the medial hadn't morphed it into the top rating soap of the decade. As for mistique, well whilst the photo's of Williams father taken with a telescopic lense showed nothing (no pun intended) but a remarkably good physique I think the media intrusion into all aspects of Royal life means that even in the supposed "safety" of their own rooms they need to make sure the blackout curtains are drawn. Enough already. These are real people with real lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
They have changed their approach very little in the years since the tell all books and yet they still draw the crowds, it is still considered an honour by many to meet them, especially HM, who has not succumbed to the kissy/huggy approach.
Who with a modicum of common sense would want HM to become kissy/huggy! Great heavens above, she and her husband are in their eighties and, with the best and healthiest lifestyle choices, they are still vulnerable to all the monstrous bugs doing the rounds. William, Harry and the rest of the grandkids have all got youth and healthy immune systems going for them.
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  #125  
Old 06-10-2008, 06:52 PM
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He should study some courses on economy, international law, politics, in New York, Toronto and Sydney, so that he get to know different persons and places. He should learn at least two languages: maybe spanish and french, and live for some months in Madrid and Paris to practice them. See how the president Sarkozy and Queen Elizabeth could talk in french without translators, because she speaks french fluently, and he does not speak english. These two projects would take at least 8 years. Then he might get married and travel a lot in official duties around the world. He would be an excellent good will ambassador, since all the media see him like having a likable and loved personna.

And Harry, third on line to the throne, should do the same. Complex and sophisticated times, require educated and experienced monarchs.
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  #126  
Old 08-05-2008, 02:15 PM
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Why couldn't he just go back the B&R instead of doing the stuff with SAS, SBS, SRR, AAC and MoD? This would make more since than would actually have at least a little more with what was supposed to be his regiment while he was in the Army. It would also make him seem even if ever so slightly more serious about it.
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  #127  
Old 08-06-2008, 05:03 AM
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Why couldn't he just go back the B&R instead of doing the stuff with SAS, SBS, SRR, AAC and MoD? This would make more since than would actually have at least a little more with what was supposed to be his regiment while he was in the Army. It would also make him seem even if ever so slightly more serious about it.
The basic thought process behind Will's time in the forces was to give him an overview of the work of the armed forces, and the life of a soldier - all in preperation for his life as a future King. It was never anticiapted that he would be taking on a mainline operational role in the future. This is why he is being rotated through the various elements of the armed forces.

One can question whethr 3 years is the right length of time, or perhaps it should have been longer. My own view is that any further time is not really necessarily going to add very much to his skill set as a future King. Once he leaves, he should spend some time (say 12-18 months on a rolling basis) with the various government departments (MoD, Foreign Office, Home Office, the Treasury etc) so that he can get a better sense of the inner-workings of government, and gradually step up his royal duties.
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  #128  
Old 08-06-2008, 05:30 AM
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-SNIPPED-Once he leaves, he should spend some time (say 12-18 months on a rolling basis) with the various government departments (MoD, Foreign Office, Home Office, the Treasury etc) so that he can get a better sense of the inner-workings of government, and gradually step up his royal duties.
I think he should go back to partying and lazing about.... otherwise we are not going to have a lot to discuss regarding William (apart from his nuptials).
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  #129  
Old 08-06-2008, 05:44 AM
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I think he should go back to partying and lazing about.... otherwise we are not going to have a lot to discuss regarding William (apart from his nuptials).
Fair point! We British are a strange bunch. Can't seem to decide whether we like our Royals to be focussed, hard working and quite boring (ala Anne) or to privide us with more entertainment (Diana, Sarah....)?
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  #130  
Old 08-07-2008, 04:42 PM
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Why couldn't an over veiw of all the Forces, Special Services, and AAC be longer like at least 3 years so he could have gotten more of a taste of each thing.
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  #131  
Old 08-08-2008, 03:34 AM
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Why couldn't an over veiw of all the Forces, Special Services, and AAC be longer like at least 3 years so he could have gotten more of a taste of each thing.
It will be 3 years by when he is done. Will started at Sandhurst in Jan 2008
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  #132  
Old 08-08-2008, 03:53 AM
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His 3 years in all the armed forces remind me of a saying "Jack of all trades, master of none" but at least he is getting a look at some of these branches of which, no doubt he will named Colonel in Chief very soon. Not a born leader, but born a leader perhaps could sum it up.
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  #133  
Old 08-09-2008, 08:58 AM
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Not a born leader, but born a leader perhaps could sum it up.
Very clever. all that duty and honor and god/country stuff.
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  #134  
Old 08-09-2008, 11:37 AM
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His 3 years in all the armed forces remind me of a saying "Jack of all trades, master of none" but at least he is getting a look at some of these branches of which, no doubt he will named Colonel in Chief very soon. Not a born leader, but born a leader perhaps could sum it up.
Menarue - Just thought I would ask what you think should have been the ideal miliatry career for him, and how long in all would you have liked to see him in the armed forces?
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  #135  
Old 08-09-2008, 11:49 AM
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Menarue - Just thought I would ask what you think should have been the ideal miliatry career for him, and how long in all would you have liked to see him in the armed forces?
Long enough to get more than a smattering. He could have followed his fatherīs footsteps and gone into the Navy. Some years at least.
I wouldnīt expect PW to have a lifetime military career it would be pointless because whatever he does, and for however long, he is going to end up being Colonel in Chief with a chest full of medals, which is normal in the BRF.
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  #136  
Old 08-09-2008, 01:08 PM
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I am a army wag and can see exactly why his time in the armed forces has been so short and varied.

My OH is currently spending 6 months every other year in either Afganistan or Iraq - each time they will spend over 4 months on pre-deployment training and leave before they go (and another months leave post deployment). This would be the same in the RAF and the RN. The armed forces are completely different to how they were in Charles day - we were at peace.

As William can not go into theatre - it limits what he can actually do in each of the forces. What does he do when his company goes? Can he relate to the experiences?

He will be King imo in the next 20 ish years - when Charles was that age it was 40ish years.
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  #137  
Old 08-09-2008, 02:54 PM
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A real three years wouldn't to much to do meaning. Even in the current "war time" enviorment.
Sanhurst-11months
B&R-6 months training and 6 months barracks duty
RAF- 8 months
RN- 8 month
Other Army- 4 months ( SAS SBS IRR AAC and MoD)
Couldn't this have worked even at the time we was going in? Could have have done any pre deployment with out being being deployed but as a gadge his leadership skills etc? Lemon Lyman, are you American or British?
Hopefully this doesn't get moved.
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  #138  
Old 08-09-2008, 05:27 PM
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It will be 3 years by when he is done. Will started at Sandhurst in Jan 2008
William started training January 8th, 2006 and passed out December 15th, 2006 I believe. When they are commissioned they have the option of how long they wish to sign up for, their time in training does not normally count.
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My OH is currently spending 6 months every other year in either Afganistan or Iraq - each time they will spend over 4 months on pre-deployment training and leave before they go (and another months leave post deployment). This would be the same in the RAF and the RN. The armed forces are completely different to how they were in Charles day - we were at peace.

As William can not go into theatre - it limits what he can actually do in each of the forces. What does he do when his company goes? Can he relate to the experiences?
They can go over every 6 months if required, or less as with 45 Commando, with the RAF it also varies between 4 to 6 months depending on the trade.

There are many things William could have learned training and studying at the various bases, without ever going into one of the conflict zones, some of which would have given him a proper grounding in each of the services, not just the glamour jobs.

He could easily have had a 10 year career in the army, what else is he going to do for what could be the next 40-50 years, cut ribbons?
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  #139  
Old 08-10-2008, 04:19 PM
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10 years would have been better than three to five years, Skydragon. Is small vehicle Resse commanding considered glamorous? In the RAF being a pilot would be the most glamrous of jobs and he did in the Navy was considered to be glamorous anyone at this time when there are wars going on. In William's case was his dission or something set by CH? It is certainly true that he could many things all the Forces without going to a combat zones.
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  #140  
Old 08-10-2008, 05:45 PM
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I wouldnīt expect PW to have a lifetime military career it would be pointless because whatever he does, and for however long, he is going to end up being Colonel in Chief with a chest full of medals, which is normal in the BRF.
Not all medals are related to the armed forces, though. The only such medal Charles has, for instance, is the Canadian Forces Decoration. The other ones (worn on the breast) he has are the Queen's Service Order (from New Zealand), the coronation medal, the two jubilee medals, and the New Zealand 1990 commemorative medal. The only members of the BRF with specifically military medals (other than the Canadian Forces Decoration) are Philip (for World War II), the Queen (for World War II, but she hasn't worn them since 1986 when she last attended Trooping the Colour in uniform), Andrew (Falklands), Harry (Afghanistan), and the Duke of Kent (Cyprus). Those are all medals that anyone in their positions would have received (maybe not Harry due to the length of time, but the cutting short of his tour was hardly his fault) and aren't really connected to any activities as Colonel in Chief.
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