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  #101  
Old 06-04-2008, 03:45 AM
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Generations of his family have served in the Royal Navy with distinction, so Prince William was no doubt anxious to impress on his big day.

Unfortunately, Sub-Lieutenant Wales found his first forays on the water anything but plain sailing.

Royal Navy rite of passage that left Prince William all at sea | Mail Online
Well, prince Philip became a full-fledged Navy-officer in wartimes and the mother of Charles and Andrew owned a big yacht where the boys could learn from their father or the staff how life on a big vessel works. Poor William only has known fun yachts like the Jonikal and I doubt they showed him how to do things there on board.

Such a pity! The next-in-line of another country bordering on the North Sea, Frederick of Denmark, had obviously a different upbringing and a different career in the Navy which makes for an impressive point in his CV, but then his family still has their yacht and I doubt his son will one day be as clueless as William obviously was in certain points.
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  #102  
Old 06-04-2008, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
I'm not directing this at anyone here specifically but in general I feel like lately no matter what Prince William does he's criticized I mean give him a break, I don't know about everyone else but I wouldn't judge him based on what happened with his training, but maybe that's just me.
You perhaps have to realise that in today's world, there is no such thing as unquestioned loyalty just because he is a 'royal'. Many are beginning to ask whether they are worth the 62p taxpayers put towards their upkeep. I do think William and Harry need to look at their PR team, the public are not stupid and can see through some of the pathetic excuses made for bad judgment.

I happen to like William and Harry, but perhaps it is time for a little honesty and integrity from their 'team'. Stop using the forces limited resources to satisfy personal ambitions and put their hands in their own pockets, millions do!
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  #103  
Old 06-04-2008, 08:37 AM
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You perhaps have to realise that in today's world, there is no such thing as unquestioned loyalty just because he is a 'royal'. Many are beginning to ask whether they are worth the 62p taxpayers put towards their upkeep. I do think William and Harry need to look at their PR team, the public are not stupid and can see through some of the pathetic excuses made for bad judgment.

I happen to like William and Harry, but perhaps it is time for a little honesty and integrity from their 'team'. Stop using the forces limited resources to satisfy personal ambitions and put their hands in their own pockets, millions do!
I think Skydragon's comments are quite unwarranted. I do not believe William has ever put a step out of place in public, barring some disparate views in relation to his helicopter training (the facts for which have not been publicly disclosed). He is working hard on his military training, and is managing to undertake some public engagements and charity work in parallel. What more can be reasonably expected from him? He is not going to have a "normal" military career because that is not what his life is about. Due credit to Charles (and Diana) for bringing up a normal, well grounded individual in not very normal surroundings!

"perhaps it is time for a little honesty and integrity from their 'team'" - Not sure what brought that on? Are you suggesting that Clarence House has been lying or misleading on behalf of William?
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  #104  
Old 06-04-2008, 09:40 AM
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I think Skydragon's comments are quite unwarranted. I do not believe William has ever put a step out of place in public, barring some disparate views in relation to his helicopter training (the facts for which have not been publicly disclosed) He is working hard on his military training, and is managing to undertake some public engagements and charity work in parallel. What more can be reasonably expected from him? He is not going to have a "normal" military career because that is not what his life is about. Due credit to Charles (and Diana) for bringing up a normal, well grounded individual in not very normal surroundings
In what way, the use of military helicopters to try to build up flying hours towards a private pilots licence was disclosed weeks ago? Many are questioning the value of his 'military attachments', you only have to read the comments sections in the media and indeed this - Cynics have questioned whether the Prince's third spell in the forces - he earned his RAF pilot's wings with a fast-track flying course this spring - is much more than using the military to provide photogenic PR for the young Windsors. - Sailor Prince William Starts Naval Career Under Media Glare In Devon |Sky News|UK News
and that is one of the kinder articles.

Yes he has participated in a couple of events this past year but amazingly more in the week following the flight revelations. Do we have any evidence that he is working hard, after all, all concerned in his training have admitted the courses are tailored for him and not the normal gruelling and in depth training sessions others are subjected to.

Far from congratulating Diana or Charles for bringing up a "normal, well grounded individual", shame on them, either he is a royal OR he is normal, you can't expect to be seen as both, IMO.
Quote:
Not sure what brought that on? Are you suggesting that Clarence House has been lying or misleading on behalf of William?
Perhaps if Williams PR team had come clean about the flights escapade, ie he was trying to build up his flying hours because he has very little spare time and/or he was practising flying, landing and taking off from, in the places he is likely to in the future, then the furore would have been so much less. I believe they were misguided and economical with the truth.
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  #105  
Old 06-04-2008, 10:00 AM
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I partly agree with you Skydragon. I don't have a problem with the courses William takes in the military though the 2 months attachment to the navy appears extremely short, IMO. He took 3 weeks of holiday in May. And CH said he'll have another break after the end of his training. Couldn't he have used part of that time to train with the navy instead?
It doesn't look good when he trains with the RAF for 3 months takes 1 week skiing holiday in between, then does royal engagements for 1 week in a row and takes 3 weeks holiday afterwards. Then trains for 2 months with the Navy and gets another holiday. Seriously this is getting too much especially since it doesn't appear like he "earned" his holidays through the work he did.
I think 6 months with each service at least should have been planned. I don't expect him to be fully trained in all branches- what for when he won't have to use any of those skills in practise. However CH should not so blatantly use his attachments for PR. Why did they have to invite the press along for his flying training and for the boat trip yesterday? Furthermore they shouldn't always pretend that he's learning everything so much faster than the other soldiers. Usually it takes 6 months to learn to fly an airplane but William - genuis that he is - learned it in just 2 months. Usually other soldiers can't stear a boat like that but William can etc... That's ridiculously exaggerated and an insult to all the other "slow" soldiers really. Obviously people will question that and it's a very bad sign that the press so openly calls these attachments as well as William's Royal engagements PR stunts.
They should have been honest and call his attachments "internships" because that's what they basically are. He's not one of the soldiers being fully trained, he's more like a "watcher" observing what they are doing and maybe joining the fun occasionally. And that's fine, IMO, but at least CH should be honest about that and not pretend otherwise.
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  #106  
Old 06-04-2008, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Isana View Post
......
I think 6 months with each service at least should have been planned. I don't expect him to be fully trained in all branches- what for when he won't have to use any of those skills in practise. However CH should not so blatantly use his attachments for PR. .............
They should have been honest and call his attachments "internships" because that's what they basically are. He's not one of the soldiers being fully trained, he's more like a "watcher" observing what they are doing and maybe joining the fun occasionally. And that's fine, IMO, but at least CH should be honest about that and not pretend otherwise.
Well, I agree with you totally. 6 months or even a year with each service covering as many of the 'departments' as possible would have shown him a little of what makes each one tick. Instead he seems to be covering only the glamourous PR worthy sections. Apart from anything else what is being forgotten is that short term intensive couses or not, he is still receiving his army pay, without apparently earning it.
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  #107  
Old 06-04-2008, 03:36 PM
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I cannot believe that you find that 62pence much, that you spend on the Royal family!!
Are you aware how much do you spend on your government! Please analise all your government actions and then see if all your pennies are spent in a usefull manner. I would happily pay 62 pounds a year not 62 pence to have a king instead our 'dear' president. The elections every 4 or 5 years cost a lot!
And as for your future king..maybe he is not working his ass off(excuse my expression) but look at Queen Elizabeth, she is 82 and still working, Prince Charles 60, still working and the future king William will also be probably working until the very last days of his life. Being royal is a life-long job. Most of us will get pensioned at 60-65. So if Prince William takes a couple of weeks off I cannot blame him!
Your newspappers, tabloids are doing EVERYTHING just to have a 'good story' and unfortunately people are buying it...

Sorry if I offended someone with my comments!
Have a good day!
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  #108  
Old 06-04-2008, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
You perhaps have to realise that in today's world, there is no such thing as unquestioned loyalty just because he is a 'royal'. Many are beginning to ask whether they are worth the 62p taxpayers put towards their upkeep. I do think William and Harry need to look at their PR team, the public are not stupid and can see through some of the pathetic excuses made for bad judgment.

I happen to like William and Harry, but perhaps it is time for a little honesty and integrity from their 'team'. Stop using the forces limited resources to satisfy personal ambitions and put their hands in their own pockets, millions do!
I suppose your right, his PR team didn't do a very good job with the incidents a month or so ago, I guess they should have just been honest about the whole thing and realize the public isn't stupid.
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  #109  
Old 06-04-2008, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by andrew View Post
I cannot believe that you find that 62pence much, that you spend on the Royal family!!
Are you aware how much do you spend on your government! Please analise all your government actions and then see if all your pennies are spent in a usefull manner.
Sorry if I offended someone with my comments!
Have a good day!
No offense taken here. Yes the government may cost us more but we do have a choice, to some extent of who gets the job. There is no such choice with the royals. Many people do ask 'what do we get out of this arrangement' with the royal family, do they serve any purpose.

I think it is important that whilst treating them with respect, they also act in such a way as to earn it.

The media are asking questions that some of the public are asking, but yes they are also fanning the flames, as they always do, but where there is smoke there is usually fire.
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  #110  
Old 06-04-2008, 04:48 PM
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'what do we get out of this arrangement'

I personally think that Britain would lose a lot if it becomes a republic. I cannot even imagine it without its royals.
I recomend you to keep your royals for as long as you can! It is one of Britain's trademark.
Would you demolish the Parliament with its Big Ben or London Bridge, just because their maintenance costs you some pennies? Guess not!

Of course they could do better! Everybody could! As long as they can offer Britain that magnificent air of tradition and pageantry they should be there. I do not fancy the idea of the royals becoming too modern,becoming too modern they will lose what made them special, other then us 'common mortals'.

Cheers!
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  #111  
Old 06-04-2008, 05:13 PM
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I'll happily keep paying but I'd rather my share went on a new hat for Camilla than a fancy dress costume for William. And least Camilla's would be practical.
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  #112  
Old 06-05-2008, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
In what way, the use of military helicopters to try to build up flying hours towards a private pilots licence was disclosed weeks ago? Many are questioning the value of his 'military attachments', you only have to read the comments sections in the media and indeed this - Cynics have questioned whether the Prince's third spell in the forces - he earned his RAF pilot's wings with a fast-track flying course this spring - is much more than using the military to provide photogenic PR for the young Windsors. - Sailor Prince William Starts Naval Career Under Media Glare In Devon |Sky News|UK News
and that is one of the kinder articles.

Yes he has participated in a couple of events this past year but amazingly more in the week following the flight revelations. Do we have any evidence that he is working hard, after all, all concerned in his training have admitted the courses are tailored for him and not the normal gruelling and in depth training sessions others are subjected to.

Far from congratulating Diana or Charles for bringing up a "normal, well grounded individual", shame on them, either he is a royal OR he is normal, you can't expect to be seen as both, IMO.
Perhaps if Williams PR team had come clean about the flights escapade, ie he was trying to build up his flying hours because he has very little spare time and/or he was practising flying, landing and taking off from, in the places he is likely to in the future, then the furore would have been so much less. I believe they were misguided and economical with the truth.
This is one of those situations where William cannot win, either way. There is a bunch of people whining about "the cost" of Will's military attachments / secondments / internships - call them what you may. If William had not spent any time in the forces, a lot more people would have criticised him, and queried his training for his eventual role as Commander-in-chief. He did not need to spend time with each of the forces, but chose to, because he wanted to get a better understanding of the work that the forces did, and of the life of a soldier. Should he have spent more time in each of the forces? Probably, but I am not sure what that really achieves. I think we all agree that he is never going to be a ordinary soldier, so I am not sure extending his time in the military is really going to achieve that much more. It is probably a better use of his time to spend some time working in government (Home / Foreign office?) to get a better understanding of how Whitehall works. Thats really where I stand.

Should Wills have been allowed to take the helicopters out on a jolly? Answer, an unqualified no, unless there is some justification for it. Whilst one would query Wills' judgement on this, a lot should also be said of the RAF superiors who allowed him to.

Re comments about the PR pictures of Will in navy gear - if CH had not released them, a lot of people would again have complained. Rewind back to Wills' time in the army - you did not see very regular pictures of him officially being released. There were the odd shots by paps whilst he was on training, but not many pictures were officially released.

Again Skydragons comments about "Far from congratulating Diana or Charles for bringing up a "normal, well grounded individual", shame on them, either he is a royal OR he is normal, you can't expect to be seen as both" just seem like another over reaction. What do you want the PR people to say? People want the royals to be approachable and "normal," and when they are, you complain!

"Do we have any evidence that he is working hard" - Wills does not need to put out a report card of what he is up to. When he becomes a full time working royal, the court circular will disclose his public engagements. It will stillnt necessarily indicate how busy he may be, as time spent in internal meetings, or actually spending time with the organsiatiosn the royals are involved in are never disclosed. For now, the criticism is completely unwarranted and inappropriate.
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  #113  
Old 06-05-2008, 08:50 AM
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My issue is not whether we see William doing his duties but more the whole idea of him needing to be in the military. Yes he will be the head of the armed forces but that doesnt mean he needs to take up short term positions doing nothing constructive for the military. look at the fact that today the chief of the general staff said military men and women are underpaid, prehaps not paying William twenty somthing grand a year plus chinook flying costs may help save money.

I truly feel that there is no need for William to "serve" in the military as if he cant serve in the same way any other service man or woman can than ther is no point. Yes he will he the head of the armed forces - but he could join the TA and support the military on visits to military bases and events and support charities helping the armed forces to show his commitment. Being head of the armed forces in an honoury position, that i agree 100% should be kept, by the monarch.

In my opinion this whole thing is just a waste of money and serves no purpose. And before people start critising me - i say all of this despite the fact that my father and sister will both be spending christmas in Afghanistan - i'd rather see moeny spent on looking after them then paying for a long term PR stunt.
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  #114  
Old 06-05-2008, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
There is a bunch of people whining about "the cost" of Will's military attachments / secondments / internships - call them what you may. If William had not spent any time in the forces, a lot more people would have criticised him, and queried his training for his eventual role as Commander-in-chief.
I think calling the points raised by people 'whining' is rather insulting, whether you meant it to be or not. I see no need for William to have spent useless time in any of the services, by the time he is King it will all have changed. He will never be a real soldier, a real member of the services.
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He did not need to spend time with each of the forces, but chose to, because he wanted to get a better understanding of the work that the forces did, and of the life of a soldier.
I think you will find that the decision to place him in each of the services had little to do with William. From the very short time he has been with the Army, RAF and now Navy he will still have absolutely NO idea about the life of a real serviceman or woman. Even if he had been asked to do what normal servicemen and women have to do, he would have been as overly protected as Harry was, so it is an insult to real servicemen by suggesting that his little forays into each arm make him any more than someone playing at it.
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It is probably a better use of his time to spend some time working in government (Home / Foreign office?) to get a better understanding of how Whitehall works. Thats really where I stand.
Why, he will not be allowed to become involved in anything political, any decision making. Why not just have him train as a Civil Servant, a Benefits LO1 officer perhaps, where he can learn how 1000's of less fortunate people are 'dealt' with.
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Re comments about the PR pictures of Will in navy gear - if CH had not released them, a lot of people would again have complained. Rewind back to Wills' time in the army - you did not see very regular pictures of him officially being released. There were the odd shots by paps whilst he was on training, but not many pictures were officially released.
No press should have been allowed on site, he should have commenced his training without fanfare, just like ordinary service men and women. CH at least got that right with the Army
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just seem like another over reaction. What do you want the PR people to say? People want the royals to be approachable and "normal," and when they are, you complain!
I have never complained that they should be normal, I don't believe they should be 'sold' to us as normal, they are not being treated as normal, they are being treated as privileged young men. I never did welcome the approach of a 'normal' life. The royals are not approachable to the majority of people, just try getting past their security to give them a hug and you will find out just how approachable they can be!
Quote:
SNIPPED- For now, the criticism is completely unwarranted and inappropriate.
Only in your opinion of course!
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  #115  
Old 06-05-2008, 11:21 AM
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Why not just have him train as a Civil Servant, a Benefits LO1 officer perhaps, where he can learn how 1000's of less fortunate people are 'dealt' with.
Quite a good idea. That should be BTW the first duty any new member of parliament should perform as well: before the first session of parliament they should work for three month in the welfare system they are responsible for.
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  #116  
Old 06-05-2008, 03:26 PM
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Quite a good idea. That should be BTW the first duty any new member of parliament should perform as well: before the first session of parliament they should work for three month in the welfare system they are responsible for.
Speaking to and trying to help the daughter of one of our employees, who had to fight to get money she was entitled to, it might show them, (William & the MP's), just how some people are forced to beg. Just going to one of the offices might be a humbling experience for them!
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  #117  
Old 06-05-2008, 03:32 PM
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I think you will find that the decision to place him in each of the services had little to do with William. From the very short time he has been with the Army, RAF and now Navy he will still have absolutely NO idea about the life of a real serviceman or woman. Even if he had been asked to do what normal servicemen and women have to do, he would have been as overly protected as Harry was, so it is an insult to real servicemen by suggesting that his little forays into each arm make him any more than someone playing at it.
It is mainly set up CH ie Charles or what? Did Prince Charles come the plan for William military on his own would there have in input from the Queen or Prince Philip? If there had been I would thought it would included more service time in one chosen serivice with longer attachments. For example 5 years total serivce with 9 month to one year attachments with the RAF and Royal Navy. He is probably trying to make the best of it aside those flights that should not have been autheroized. However, the Army should aleast have made the minmum 3 years so he would not be done until December/January 2009/2010.
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  #118  
Old 06-05-2008, 03:37 PM
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I think he won't be done until December this year. He'll return to the Blues and Royals after his navy attachment. I don't know exactly what he'll be doing there but he'll complete the 3 years.
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  #119  
Old 06-05-2008, 07:12 PM
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In January 2009 Prince William supposed to begin full time Royal duties which means I think he will not be in the Army anymore. I believe you have to be in for a total of three years as a Commissioned Officer in the Blues and Royals which total with Officer training of four years.
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  #120  
Old 06-06-2008, 04:40 AM
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In January 2009 Prince William supposed to begin full time Royal duties which means I think he will not be in the Army anymore. I believe you have to be in for a total of three years as a Commissioned Officer in the Blues and Royals which total with Officer training of four years.
You 'sign up' for a minimum of three years. If you are right, they intend to count the months he has been deployed to other arms of the service as part of the three year contract.
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