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  #861  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:21 AM
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Evidence would suggest that posters are losing the plot on this thread!

Question: How do you know that Harry treated anyone, let alone the girls invited to the party, as objects.

Answer: For all the pontificating . . . you do not!

Please at least try to be objective and preface your opinions with IMO.
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  #862  
Old 08-28-2012, 04:30 AM
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I'm waiting for an answer to this as well. Inviting girls to a party does not mean he was treating them like objects. And I also do not have sympathy for a girl who goes to a strangers hotel room in Las Vegas, even freshman in college know what that can lead to. These girls are just like every other low life who kiss and tell and want to make money off it. Male and female.
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  #863  
Old 08-28-2012, 04:32 AM
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I don't think this should be treated as a huge scandal (he's not cheating or doing anything illegal) but Harry should really know better than to do these kind of things, specially these days when everyone has a camera available on their phones.

It goes against his privacy and the pictures should have never reached the media but he just should stop being an easy target, not stop having fun but be more careful about with whom and where he has fun, there are far too many pictures of his escapades for it to be circumstantial.

And yes, many young men do it, but they aren't Princes of the United Kingdom, Harry has to remember who he is and be more careful about what he does.
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  #864  
Old 08-28-2012, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariel1 View Post
I was talking to a friend about the royals today, someone who does not read the forum or EVER read about royals. I told him what a difference in thought and behavior there was among some of the younger princes. There are those who are discrete and private, who spend most of their time studying or doing athletics (like Amadeo) or even serving as family emissaries overseas (Guillaume). These young men will never be on the cover of the Tabloid-type magazines (yes, Harry is already on the cover of one of our Tabloids here in the US, Monday night). It would be nice if there were a picture of Guillaume comforting Stephanie over her mother's death, or some sweet thing like that. Harry should look at these other young royal men and think about their way of life as something he could emulate. Or maybe that's not possible in the environments he lives in?
With all due respect, you're comparing apples with turnips. Amadeo and Guillaume could walk down 5th Avenue in New York and no-one would have a clue who they are. We have no idea what they do in their private time because the tabloids don't care enough to find out. Papparazzi don't follow them in every step they take. If they turned up at a pool party in Vegas none of the girls there would know that they're princes, so the chances of anyone selling information on them is almost zero.

Let's evaluate Harry's performance as a Prince. He's served in his grandmother's Armed Forces with distinction, including a stint on the frontline in the most dangerous place on earth, Afghanistan. By all accounts he's a top quality helicopter pilot, given the Army (which is seriously, seriously skint) are letting him fly Apache attack helicopters which each cost £35 million (55 million USD). He's done a lot for good causes including setting up his own charity to help children in Africa.

He comports himself very well while completing royal duties. He impressed everyone with a wonderful tour of HM's Caribbean realms for the Jubilee. The UK government asked him to visit Brazil on behalf of UK Trade and Investment, and Harry again thrilled everyone with the Culture Secretary saying:

Quote:
“Prince Harry has the impact of 1,000 politicians. Watching him during his tour of the Caribbean and in Brazil, he is becoming an extraordinary phenomenon. He has not been on top of our list before as an ambassador, but seeing the electrifying effect he’s had here, his real connection with children and sport, shows just how he has taken to the role.”
He added that it “again shows what an asset the Royal family is”.
The British government now have plans to use Harry as much as possible (Army schedule permitting) to promote the UK abroad because he is considered such a huge asset.

Getting drunk while on a lads weekend, and having some fun in his hotel room in the buff changes none of this.
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  #865  
Old 08-28-2012, 04:48 AM
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The Danish tabloid BT has a gallery of apparantly a new trend: A Facebook group called: Support Prince Harry with naked salute.

WARNING! Do not watch this gallery if you are disturbed by photos of persons who are less than dressed. (No fully nude or topless pics though).
Ny trend: Nøgen-honnør for prinsen | www.bt.dk

Don't say the British don't have a sense of humour.

---------------

Personally I think Harry's little - mishap - will be soon forgotten. If anything I think it will actually endear him even more to a large segment of the population, who are atracted to the fact that Harry is very much a human being, while they perhaps don't really relate to the more polished image of royalty in general.
However, if William had pulled this stunt, he would have been hit on the head with the big hammer!
But Harry can get away with a lot more than William, I think. Partly because he is the second Prince but also because he is Harry.
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  #866  
Old 08-28-2012, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tea-n-tiaras View Post

However, I will make a few comments. First, if one invites a group of strangers into their home, cavorts with said strangers, allows themselves to be photographed and then allows his guests to leave, then what happened is no longer "private." Said person invited the general public into his home and allowed them to photograph the occasion. Now, the pictures belong to those he invited.

As to your last comment, "How on earth is it anyone's business but his?" Well....That would be because he allowed the group (more than a couple) of, as you call them, "totally unscrupulous money-grabbing women" to take pictures of the evening and one of them decided to make them public.
I'm sorry, where is the proof that Harry 'allowed' himself to be photographed? If there were 25 people there, it's very, very easy for someone with a camera phone to snap a few pictures without arousing too much suspicion.

What would you have had Harry do? Confiscate this woman's phone? Refuse to let her leave the room until she handed it over? Obviously Harry's protection officers didn't search the people who were invited to the room, or their bags etc. with any degree of thoroughness, if they searched them at all. Apart from anything, that's a huge security risk and the officers in question will need to explain themselves.

Quote:
I also find it very interesting that Prince Harry is just a poor, victimized, good natured, soldier boy out to blow off steam by getting drunk and naked with women he knows nothing about, but the women are "unscrupulous", "disgusting," and "money grubbing." It seems to me that the lack of scruples and disgusting behavior goes both ways. He treated them like objects and they treated him the same. Were they supposed to be so honored that he used them for the evening that they would just revere their pictures forever??? Prince Harry is reaping what he has sown.
As I've said previously in this discussion, Harry made a stupid mistake in inviting these people to his room. Evidently he'd had too much to drink and it clouded his judgement. His father has apparently let him know exactly what he thinks of his behaviour, and I'm sure his Commanding Officer will do the same.

The person who took these photos and sold them without the consent of the people at the party are absolutely beneath contempt. Whether there was a royal in that hotel room or not, she was invited into the private space of these people in good faith and betrayed their trust. Anyone who comes into contact with her in future will know that, for the right price, she won't hesitate in selling them out.

Where is the proof that Harry treated these women like objects? There's a heck of a lot of projecting going on here. The woman/women who took these photos and sold them for personal gain objectified themselves.
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  #867  
Old 08-28-2012, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Evidence would suggest that posters are losing the plot on this thread!

Question: How do you know that Harry treated anyone, let alone the girls invited to the party, as objects.

Answer: For all the pontificating . . . you do not!

Please at least try to be objective and preface your opinions with IMO.
good post :-) but in this thread it would be easier to preface the actual fact-posts (which are probably all on page 1 :-) ) as there are very little actual facts and loads of opinions, 'what-if's and gossip

IMO, obviously :-)
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  #868  
Old 08-28-2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tea-n-tiaras

The definition of selfish is as follows:

self·ish/ˈselfiSH/
Adjective:
(of a person, action, or motive) Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

How would you characterize his motives? He invited complete strangers to his room to drink and disrobe? How would you characterize the girls' motives? As I said before, "He treated them like objects and they treated him the same." They were all in it for themselves.
Like Marg said you have no idea what went through these people's minds so you can't make such assumptions.

Believe it or not, men and women can party naked together without objectifying each other. Better yet, being nude does not automatically mean someone is less than human.

Its like going to a nude beach. Are those people objectifying themselves? There are a lot of people who see nudity as a completely natural state.
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  #869  
Old 08-28-2012, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
The Danish tabloid BT has a gallery of apparantly a new trend: A Facebook group called: Support Prince Harry with naked salute.

WARNING! Do not watch this gallery if you are disturbed by photos of persons who are less than dressed. (No fully nude or topless pics though).
Ny trend: Nøgen-honnør for prinsen | www.bt.dk

Don't say the British don't have a sense of humour.

---------------

Personally I think Harry's little - mishap - will be soon forgotten. If anything I think it will actually endear him even more to a large segment of the population, who are atracted to the fact that Harry is very much a human being, while they perhaps don't really relate to the more polished image of royalty in general.
However, if William had pulled this stunt, he would have been hit on the head with the big hammer!
But Harry can get away with a lot more than William, I think. Partly because he is the second Prince but also because he is Harry.
I think you are right, there Muhler. I also think if this were Beatrice or Eugenie, not only would they have been hit on the head with a hammer, they would have been forced to wear scarlet A's beneath their very fascinating fascinators. That is what makes me most angry about this incident.

I read a comment in another comment section that somewhere out there Fergie is relieved that this was not her!
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  #870  
Old 08-28-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Peach View Post
I think you are right, there Muhler. I also think if this were Beatrice or Eugenie, not only would they have been hit on the head with a hammer, they would have been forced to wear scarlet A's beneath their very fascinating fascinators. That is what makes me most angry about this incident.

I read a comment in another comment section that somewhere out there Fergie is relieved that this was not her!
for me: had it been Zara Philips, i'd feel the same i do now; works hard, party to blow off steam, should be more careful who to party with
Beatrice/Eugenie i don't really know (well, not that i *know* any british royal...), but still don't think i'd be shocked about a blurry pic like this...

nudity for me just doesn't have the shock value that for instance violence or weapons have
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  #871  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
I'm sorry, where is the proof that Harry 'allowed' himself to be photographed? If there were 25 people there, it's very, very easy for someone with a camera phone to snap a few pictures without arousing too much suspicion.

What would you have had Harry do? Confiscate this woman's phone? Refuse to let her leave the room until she handed it over? Obviously Harry's protection officers didn't search the people who were invited to the room, or their bags etc. with any degree of thoroughness, if they searched them at all. Apart from anything, that's a huge security risk and the officers in question will need to explain themselves.
Right off the top of my head I can think of four things Harry could have done to prevent this situation, while still having a good time in Vegas.

1)He could have decided not to invite a bunch of complete strangers into his hotel suite to party, instead sticking with people he actually knows well and trusts.
2)If he absolutely had to invite a bunch of complete strangers back to his room to party, he could have made confiscation of their phones a condition of entry - and then personally seen to it, (once again, it's not the job of the protection officers to do this).
3)If he didn't want to confiscate the phones of his new friends then he could have shot down the idea of 'strip' anything and kept his clothes on. A picture of Harry in his swim trunks hugging a woman in a bikini may have shown up on a couple of websites, but no one would think anything of it.

Of course, all of the above depend on:
4)He could have decided not to get so drunk that he was unable to think through the ramifications of his choices.

Sure, in a perfect world Harry would be allowed to bumble through all manner of drunken idiocy and poor decision making and not have anything bad happen to him, as long as he didn't break the law. But that's generally not the way the world works.
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  #872  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:19 PM
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The bigger scandal and crime is not the sex; it's accepting $30,000 plus in free gifts. That is a firing offense for US government employees and I am guessing it's the same in the UK.
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  #873  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:23 PM
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Funny that this thread has lasted longer than Harry's visit to LV. He has been home in the UK for a week now carrying on with his life.
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  #874  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
The bigger scandal and crime is not the sex; it's accepting $30,000 plus in free gifts. That is a firing offense for US government employees and I am guessing it's the same in the UK.
excellent point


Quote:
Raising eyebrows
But even so his decision to ride in a helicopter owned by Abramovich - Britain's richest man with a fortune estimated at £7.5 billion, and a man he has not even met - is bound to raise eyebrows among courtiers.
Last night, however, aides insisted the whole matter was driven by Charles's honourable charity interests.
Paddy Harverson, the Prince's Communications Secretary tells me: "Cowdray Park were keen for the Prince of Wales to attend their event in order to maximise funds for the two charities they are raising money for so they asked Mr Abramovich if he would lend his helicopter and he very kindly agreed.
"The Prince does not accept free gifts of transport unless they are from a close personal friend or unless the gift helps him raise money for a charity."
Abramovich is not expected to witness his own generosity, I am told. Although he at one time expressed an interest in taking up polo and had a few lessons from a professional, his enthusiasm for the sport has since waned.
IMO it will be interesting to see how Harry's acceptance of the gift of free room and board will be handled. I'm looking forward to seeing how *charities* are going to come into this.
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  #875  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:47 PM
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I hope that there isn't more coming up:
Showbiz blogger Norm Clark revealed the playboy’s nightmare may be far from over. The Vegas native claimed a “gigantic” scandal was about to hit Prince Harry and his family, quoting an anonymous source.
Daily Star: Simply The Best 7 Days A Week :: News :: Prince Harry fears new Las Vegas photos
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  #876  
Old 08-28-2012, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
The bigger scandal and crime is not the sex; it's accepting $30,000 plus in free gifts. That is a firing offense for US government employees and I am guessing it's the same in the UK.
Question .... does hugging someone "nekkid" qualify as "sex"? I don't think so, just MO. Just another one of those assumptions that people are making. NOW, if more pictures of a more explicit nature appear in the tabs, that's another thing. I just don't think we need to add anything to the pot and honestly, I think some people are adding things to the pot.
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  #877  
Old 08-28-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
However, if William had pulled this stunt, he would have been hit on the head with the big hammer!
But Harry can get away with a lot more than William, I think. Partly because he is the second Prince but also because he is Harry.
Very fair points.
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  #878  
Old 08-28-2012, 03:17 PM
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True. William would have been in MAJOR trouble not just with the family but with his wife. I suppose Harry has always been known as the freebird, the wild child. And yes, maybe to some his little display was just a young lad having a bit of fun. To me though, I look at the BRF as a family to look up to, to emulate. I have always tried to view them as dignified and tasteful. I know there is always a black sheep in any family but its difficult to accept when it is a royal family that is so respected by people. I am not British but I admire and respect the BRF very much and when one of its members goes astray and shames the family it makes me wonder what in the heck is wrong with them. I know it is probably not easy being royal but if you are born into it and know what is expected of you and understand what an old and glorious institution it is, I would think you would be proud to be a part of something so wonderful. I suppose that in the 21st century some of the young royals dont see it that way and its sad. I for one would be so proud to be a part of a family that is respected all over the world. It would be an honour to me not a burden as some seem to think it is. So when Harry does something that brings shame to the family I feel terrible especially now that the family has regained the support of its people. It was a wonderful 2 years with the wedding and the Jubilee and the Olympics. It has been a whirlwind of great things happening in Great Britain and then,WHAM , there is Harry in all his glory for everyone to see at a time when there has been joy and great pride for the british people. Just a shame really. Just my opinion.
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGabrielle View Post
True. William would have been in MAJOR trouble not just with the family but with his wife. I suppose Harry has always been known as the freebird, the wild child. And yes, maybe to some his little display was just a young lad having a bit of fun. To me though, I look at the BRF as a family to look up to, to emulate. I have always tried to view them as dignified and tasteful. I know there is always a black sheep in any family but its difficult to accept when it is a royal family that is so respected by people. I am not British but I admire and respect the BRF very much and when one of its members goes astray and shames the family it makes me wonder what in the heck is wrong with them. I know it is probably not easy being royal but if you are born into it and know what is expected of you and understand what an old and glorious institution it is, I would think you would be proud to be a part of something so wonderful. I suppose that in the 21st century some of the young royals dont see it that way and its sad. I for one would be so proud to be a part of a family that is respected all over the world. It would be an honour to me not a burden as some seem to think it is. So when Harry does something that brings shame to the family I feel terrible especially now that the family has regained the support of its people. It was a wonderful 2 years with the wedding and the Jubilee and the Olympics. It has been a whirlwind of great things happening in Great Britain and then,WHAM , there is Harry in all his glory for everyone to see at a time when there has been joy and great pride for the british people. Just a shame really. Just my opinion.
I definitely understand your sentiments. However, I think in many ways, standards of behavior have changed. What wasn't acceptable several decades back, is completely acceptable now. Royals are trying to be as 'normal' as possible, and I guess that means going out and partying like anyone else, damn the consequences.
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  #880  
Old 08-28-2012, 04:04 PM
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There are a lot of double standards in this, not least from me, I have to admit.

Yes, I believe Harry will get away with that and even be even more liked by many. Not least those who have tried to wake up after a binge only to learn about the embarrassing things we have done.
Even, which is the worst thing I can imagine here, pictures of Harry having actual intercourse may surface.

Okay, William. No way he would get away with this! He is the next heir, this is out of character for him and most importantly, he is married. - These sorts of escapades are now behind him.
The same thing will happen with Harry, I believe, once he is getting seriously involved with a girl again. Then he won't get such a break. And once he gets married, the hammer will fall.
Apart from that I'd estimate Harry has a five year period more before he is considered too old for this. If he does this in his mid-thirties, he won't get such a break either.

Harry in particular gets away with this, partly because it's in line with his more "wild" character, but also very much because he has earned credits. He has served in the frontline in Afghanistan and soldiers are allowed, and feel they deserve, to party hard once in a while.
But he has also shown his compassionate and charming side, when on the job. Africa, the West Indies.
Had he been more of an idler/lazy or just less charming, he would have gotten the hammer.

Eugenie and Beatrice and most other princesses I can think of would also get the big hammer, no matter how much credit they have. In this unfair world women/girls are judged harsher than men in such situations.

Not to mention if he was someone who was dating a prince/ess or engaged to be married into a royal family. He would get the public boot in the behind at once!
Which is why you cannot compare Harry and say Sofia Hellquist, it's two completely different standards. Harry is already a royal, a man and a bachelor. Sofia is a woman, an outsider and very much involved with a prince.

My question in all this is: Where were Harry's friends? Why didn't a good friends step in? As good friends do.
Whoever took these photos had a front seat space and it's difficult to hide it, if you are taking pictures with a mobile. These pics are too good to be taken from the very back and clandestinly. Someone took his/her time to get the right pictures. Why didn't a good friend step in and knock that person on the head?
Because they were just as drunk and weren't genuine friends anyway.
I don't blame Harry as much. We can all, well, must of us, get drunk and do something monumentally silly. That's why good friends keep an eye out for you.
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