Harry and Meghan: Relationship Musings

[W.Y.CII]

...wait, she still doesn't quit her job, she still doesn't engage with Henry, which means she still is not royal but a celebrity/actress. So what's wrong with doing interview and being on cover? Criticizing a celebrity for being too "celebrity"? I don't get the logic here, maybe I miss something?

 

[Cocoasneeze]

Yes and no. The Queen and Catherine photos weren't of that celeb vein. You also have to look at the content of those articles. Meghan's was a celeb pr profile with celebrity endorsements from her celebrity friends, and then the emotional gushing about her love. Show me where the Queen and Catherine did that in VF or Vogue.

So even if she was married to Harry I would still see it as "too celeb".

So Catherine and The Queen can have their mugs on the covers of magazines, and that's 'royal', but from meghan it's too celebrity, no matter what. Sounds like a double standard to me, tbh.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I have the feeling that, in case H&M marry, M will become a second Diana and it will end in a divorce as well..?

If Harry and Meghan marry, I think they will be more of couple/team from the start so if their marriage didn't last it would not be for the same reasons his parents divorced.

 

[miss whirley]

So Catherine and The Queen can have their mugs on the covers of magazines, and that's 'royal', but from meghan it's too celebrity, no matter what. Sounds like a double standard to me, tbh.

If you can't see how the content and presentation were vastly different. Then we must accept that we speak completely different languages and move on.

 

[jacqui24]

I laugh at the comments that royals aren't celebrity. Royals certainly have the celebrity elements. That's why we see Kate in designer brands as oppose to what you or I wear to the office for her engagements. That's why the royal family has press secretaries and image rehabilitation. This is very much a carefully managed brand. They just don't happen to act or sing. But they certainly are aware that they are more than a family, and that popularity matters. Being relevant matters.

 

[Cocoasneeze]

If you can't see how the content and presentation were vastly different. Then we must accept that we speak completely different languages and move on.

All I see is a double standard. And when did one of the greatest athletes of all time become a 'celebrity'? When it was revealed, that she's been friends with Meghan for 7 years?

 

[Osipi]

...wait, she still doesn't quit her job, she still doesn't engage with Henry, which means she still is not royal but a celebrity/actress. So what's wrong with doing interview and being on cover? Criticizing a celebrity for being too "celebrity"? I don't get the logic here, maybe I miss something?

Meghan can't just up and quit her job. She's under contract and to me, taking responsibility for her commitments is a positive trait. Her contract with Suits, I believe, will be up after this season finishes filming and it will be then that she will be able to walk away and move ahead with her life as she sees fit.

Harry and Meghan just have been lucky enough to be able to stay under the radar as far as their times together. She does engage with Harry. Just not in the public eye. As she says it is the time for just the two of them. I don't think any of us would want to conduct our personal lives with a bazillion of people as onlookers and critics.

Imagine though the hue and cry should Harry and Meghan keep things under the radar and one day we get the announcement that they have wed in a private ceremony somewhere (as many celebrities are fond of doing) attended by family and close friends and are currently going to be taking a private hiatus to adjust to married life and start a family with the intent that Harry does keep his public role active. The public, in general, would feel cheated and make Armageddon look like a fairy tale picnic.

No matter what way this couple goes or what they do or don't do, there will always be those that are critical of them. That's another area these two people have learned to live with over the years and not let it influence them or their actions.

 

[Dman]

It's going take things to get off on a more official footing for folks to calm down. We've been down this road before. Just the same cycle.

 

[Cocoasneeze]

It's going take things to get off on a more official footing for folks to calm down. We've been down this road before. Just the same cycle.

It's interesting to read these comments, and somewhat panic, too. Reading twitter and other places, it's pretty much agreed, that this was a pre engagement interview, though. Wheather people agree it's a smart move or not, one thing IMHO is sure. This relationship won't end the BRF, they're not an endangered species that need protection from the celebrities, and like you said, once things become official, it'll all calm down.

 

[jacqui24]

If you can't see how the content and presentation were vastly different. Then we must accept that we speak completely different languages and move on.

Of course it's different. She's not yet a member of the BRF. If she had acted as such, she'd be called every name in the book. Will we see a photo spread like this from her if she marries Harry, highly doubt it. But as of right now, she's not part of that family and shouldn't dress as if she is. She has changed certain elements to take out the risque clothing. It's not coincidence that her clothing on Suits have toned down quite a bit since the relationship came to light.

I think compromises will have to be made and probably more are coming in the future. However, I don't think it's necessary for her to dress exactly like Kate or Princess Anne did. The BRF has recognized by this point that some things are changing. Harry isn't the type to expect his wife to be exactly like his sister-in-law, nor would he be attracted to that type since he's not like William. They'll be their own individuals, and that will be good enough for some, but piss off others. You can't make everyone happy, and I think they realize that.

 

[W.Y.CII]

Meghan can't just up and quit her job. She's under contract and to me, taking responsibility for her commitments is a positive trait. Her contract with Suits, I believe, will be up after this season finishes filming and it will be then that she will be able to walk away and move ahead with her life as she sees fit.
...

Yes, having a good work ethic can solve many difficulties and adapt to a new circumstance easily.

 

[xenobia]

I hope some folks know that Meghan isn't a major celebrity. Nowhere on the A-List that's for sure.

Letizia Ortiz (Queen Letizia of Spain), was a news media personality and married a Prince. Now she's a popular Queen and a very popular royal on these forums.

I'll never forget how Sofia Hellqvist was treated. Now folks are seeing the good job she's doing as a senior royal in Sweden.

At some point people will figure out that it's about giving people a chance. Tv personality or not.

I think these are interesting comparisons. Both Letizia and Sofia - especially the second one - had to endure so much dirt in the press and on social media before their marriage. And yes, some people still don't like them because of their past, and no matter what they do, they will never give them a chance. But I think that people in Spain generally like Letizia, and Sofia has gotten off to a great start as a new royal her in Sweden.

I would even go so far as to say that Letizia, Sofia and Meghan have a huge advantage when it comes to handle media. They were more or less known before they met their current partners, and they had dealt with media before. Like it or not, public perception - including media - is a big part of royal work in this day and age. I personally think that Meghan will be a huge asset to the BRF. And that is just a bonus, because the most important thing is that she and Harry are happy together. And I don't think that anyone doubts that they are.

 

[duchessrachel]

For people worried about the "celebrity" involved in a possible marriage, all of that aura will go away if they get married. She will give up her acting career and be a full time royal.

 

[miss whirley]

All I see is a double standard. And when did one of the greatest athletes of all time become a 'celebrity'? When it was revealed, that she's been friends with Meghan for 7 years?

1. Serena is a celebrity, she's proud of it. She even had a reality tv show.

2. No one should brag about being friends with Serena after her Steubenville, Ohio, rape case comments.

 

[Blog Real]

I think Meghan will be a plus in the Royal Family for every reason. I think H & M are getting married and I think they'll be happy together.
She knows how to deal with the press and this is always a plus.
The criticisms, especially Letizia, are unfair. It is certain that she has a strong personality, but she never carried out controversies and was always present in the decisive moments of the Spanish Royal Family. She is an intelligent woman who has managed to have a successful career. Besides, he had the courage to marry the crown heir. It's true that she was a divorced woman, but this is no crime. I think nowadays she is more popular and respected. She's a good queen.
Sofia from Sweden, was the most controversial, because she participated in a reality show and made some productions for magazines. He also did not have a career in any area, which also did not help.
I think her caring work helped to improve Sofia's image. Today it seems that it is more respected in Sweden.
Meghan just like Letizia and Sofia will have the opportunity to show what it's worth. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Cocoasneeze]

1. Serena is a celebrity, she's proud of it. She even had a reality tv show.

2. No one should brag about being friends with Serena after her Steubenville, Ohio, rape case comments.

Going way OT here.

BRF has toed the line of celebrity for a long long time, way before Meghan got involved with Harry, like others have said, and have somewhat become celebs themselves. Meghan is bringing nothing new to BRF in that regard.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I am sorry to agree.

The Cambridges photographed a couple of years ago schmoozing with JayZ and Beyonce at a Knicks game pretty much sealed it even though it started years ago.

The celebrification of the Windsors will not begin with Meghan Markle.

It started with Princess Margaret in the Swinging 60's, hanging out with the Beatles and the Burtons and the Rolling Stones and partying on Mustique, and reached it's zenith with Diana Princess of Wales in the 80's-90's.

 

[Pranter]

Remember Kate and William going to the Hollywood Award show and seen chatting with famous actors? Then were was the infamous pic of the basketball star (I think Labron) with his arm around Kate in the pic...much was made of that because he dared to touch a royal person....


LaRae

 

[SLV]

In my opinion that is not being celebrity. Only two social people who enjoy the company of others. That those people may be a celebrity is irrelevant, if they were not nice to talk to, W&K would not be friends with them.

 

[jacqui24]

Remember Kate and William going to the Hollywood Award show and seen chatting with famous actors? Then were was the infamous pic of the basketball star (I think Labron) with his arm around Kate in the pic...much was made of that because he dared to touch a royal person....


LaRae

This reminds me of when Michelle Obama touched the Queen. The Queen didn't seem to mind, but the people freaked out.

 

[Curryong]

I am sorry to agree.

The Cambridges photographed a couple of years ago schmoozing with JayZ and Beyonce at a Knicks game pretty much sealed it even though it started years ago.

The celebrification of the Windsors will not begin with Meghan Markle.

It started with Princess Margaret in the Swinging 60's, hanging out with the Beatles and the Burtons and the Rolling Stones and partying on Mustique, and reached it's zenith with Diana Princess of Wales in the 80's-90's.

Oh, much much earlier than that. King Edward VIII when Prince of Wales was friendly with actors and musicians as was his younger brother the Duke of Kent. And Lady Mountbatten had lovers from show business.

 

[Queen E]

I'm a fan of Meghan's but I like to think that I can also be objective!

A day after the event & I'm still struggling to understand the point of this Vanity Fair cover story. She is not promoting her show or talking about her charities. If she wants to be known for her work & not who she is dating I think it's rather bizarre the article barely touches on her work. Meghan is an intelligent woman who usually comes off as very articulate, however I don't think this piece does her any justice & it comes across as quite shallow. It's a fluff piece that is poorly written & most of the quotes are coming from other people & old interviews. I don't know who had the final say over the editorial but it just seems very rushed & like they were only interested in getting a few good quotes about Harry.

If this is supposed to be a rollout I would have expected a meatier piece with some new information about her work, charities & outlook. But what we got is just a rehash of old stories & fluffy revelations like the sauce she buys. It's really not a good read, however in fairness to Meghan I don't think the final edit was her decision.

 

[Osipi]

Lets take a look at this from another angle. According to the Oxford dictionary, the word "celebrity" is defined as:

1A famous person, especially in entertainment or sport.
‘he became a sporting celebrity’
as modifier ‘a celebrity chef’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1mass noun The state of being well known.
‘his prestige and celebrity grew’

Although primarily associated in 2017 as people in entertainment and sports, it would also be appropriate to state "Prince William is a more of a royal celebrity than Prince (fill in the blank with a princely name from a more obscure country).

When using the word celebrity, we can usually define it better with an adjective such as a sports celebrity, a TV celebrity, a royal celebrity, a socialite celebrity. Other words that could be used are "stars" and "luminaries". Celebrity and being a celebrity means that they have a certain amount of renown that is notable and known by the masses.

Reflecting back on the Vanity Fair article, one statement does stand out for me where Meghan is asked about the notoriety of her relationship with Harry. She replies:

“We’re two people who are really happy and in love. We were very quietly dating for about six months before it became news, and I was working during that whole time, and the only thing that changed was people’s perception. Nothing about me changed. I’m still the same person that I am, and I’ve never defined myself by my relationship.”

Meghan is not just proclaiming that they are "in love" but are two individual people that are "in love". The Meghan that Meghan was before she met Harry is the same person she is today. The same with Harry. Neither one of them is seeking to change, alter, transform or change the image of each other. They love each other because of who they are and not because of what they could be or turn themselves into. This has been a pitfall before in a royal marriage and we don't see this here. It tells me that this couple is very much grounded in reality.

I don't think Harry could ask for a more well grounded, self confident and congenial person to share his life with and all that his life entails. If it takes a "celebrity" to enhance, support and add to the British royal family, in my eyes it is a good thing all around and a very positive asset.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Oh, much much earlier than that. King Edward VIII when Prince of Wales was friendly with actors and musicians as was his younger brother the Duke of Kent. And Lady Mountbatten had lovers from show business.

George Duke of Kent was said to be especially...close...with Noel Coward. You are right, Royalty and show biz go even farther than I thought!

 

[O-H Anglophile]

And Prince Charles was good friends with the late Joan Rivers.
Royalty and singers/actors/dancers can be friendly and it is not a problem so long as personal details aren't shared with the press.
And Royals use "celebrities" to further their charities.

 

[wyevale]

Ms Markle will be the first 'sleb' to marry into the BRF [if Harry does propose, and she accepts]...

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I'm a fan of Meghan's but I like to think that I can also be objective!

A day after the event & I'm still struggling to understand the point of this Vanity Fair cover story. She is not promoting her show or talking about her charities. If she wants to be known for her work & not who she is dating I think it's rather bizarre the article barely touches on her work. Meghan is an intelligent woman who usually comes off as very articulate, however I don't think this piece does her any justice & it comes across as quite shallow. It's a fluff piece that is poorly written & most of the quotes are coming from other people & old interviews. I don't know who had the final say over the editorial but it just seems very rushed & like they were only interested in getting a few good quotes about Harry.

If this is supposed to be a rollout I would have expected a meatier piece with some new information about her work, charities & outlook. But what we got is just a rehash of old stories & fluffy revelations like the sauce she buys. It's really not a good read, however in fairness to Meghan I don't think the final edit was her decision.

I think it was not meant to be a full biography of Meghan. They were coming from now--she is winding down her career as an actress and will need to adjust the focus of her charitable endeavors-she is moving on and the primary thing is her relationship with Harry.

 

[Pranter]

This reminds me of when Michelle Obama touched the Queen. The Queen didn't seem to mind, but the people freaked out.

Well you know us Americans....we don't worry about that sort of thing!


LaRae

I think it was not meant to be a full biography of Meghan. They were coming from now--she is winding down her career as an actress and will need to adjust the focus of her charitable endeavors-she is moving on and the primary thing is her relationship with Harry.

I saw it as an introduction to folks...'why' could be asked about anyone who does an article for VF ...including members of the BRF.


LaRae

 

[Osipi]

Ms Markle will be the first 'sleb' to marry into the BRF [if Harry does propose, and she accepts]...

Meh. A sleb, an aristo, a Yank or a Brit. All terms that can be tacked onto a person to describe a bit about themselves. As there's been a history of aristos and gentry or commoner marriages in the royal family where some went over like a lead balloon and some that persevered, who is to say that a 'sleb isn't going to be a good match? Its who the person is and not how the public defines them that makes the world of difference.

If the BRF can survive and prosper after Diana, Princess of Wales (an aristo), I think they can handle just about anybody.

 

[miss whirley]

I'm a fan of Meghan's but I like to think that I can also be objective!

A day after the event & I'm still struggling to understand the point of this Vanity Fair cover story. She is not promoting her show or talking about her charities. If she wants to be known for her work & not who she is dating I think it's rather bizarre the article barely touches on her work. Meghan is an intelligent woman who usually comes off as very articulate, however I don't think this piece does her any justice & it comes across as quite shallow. It's a fluff piece that is poorly written & most of the quotes are coming from other people & old interviews. I don't know who had the final say over the editorial but it just seems very rushed & like they were only interested in getting a few good quotes about Harry.

If this is supposed to be a rollout I would have expected a meatier piece with some new information about her work, charities & outlook. But what we got is just a rehash of old stories & fluffy revelations like the sauce she buys. It's really not a good read, however in fairness to Meghan I don't think the final edit was her decision.

I really appreciate you being objective and acknowledging that this was a questionable decision. And while the intention might have come from a good place the final product deserves to have mixed reactions. It's hard to converse with those that take the stance of "I'm a fan of this person don't you critique any of their actions, if you object to something - who cares!"

So kudos.