Harry and Meghan: Relationship Musings

[Osipi]

Somehow I feel that too.

It definitely is not about actual matter like precedence, but they would be compared together on dressing, jewelry, engagements, etc. etc. no matter on what aspects. Probably that's the reason. (and honestly I have already seen some people comparing them )

I have a feeling that as time passes, what we're basically going to be seeing as far as Kate and Meghan is two women who become close as sisters-in-law. Of course the fashionistas will focus on the differences in looks, styles and who wore the most expensive piece of jewelry or who wore more on loan from the Queen (which is a no-brainer as Kate is a future Queen) but all of that is superficial and print to fill spaces.

Up until now, I've always seen Will & Kate & Harry as the Three Musketeers that are close and work side by side as a team. With Meghan possibly joining the troupe, I'll just have to rename them the Four Musketeers. Of course it'll take up most of the post just typing out The Royal Foundation of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and the Duke and Duchess of (Sussex or whatever) but I can definitely see where Meghan will be a positive addition to this foundation and its causes.

A lot of the focus recently has been Meghan's fit into the British scheme of things. That is kind of one sided in my opinion. A lot of Americans like myself hold the British and their royal family as something wonderful to know about and to follow and I think with Meghan joining the family, Americans will feel a closeness to the UK even more. I remember not too long ago that a man wrote to HM, The Queen pleading with her to take the US back which HM responded to very politely. Its comical in its own way but underlining it all is a realization that the British way of doing things with a constitutional monarchy may be the way to go when all is said and done.

American writes to the Queen asking her to take back control of the US because Presidential candidates 'aren’t up to par' | The Independent

There is a lot of divisiveness rampant in the States these days and a lot of racial tensions present and from an American point of view, to see divisiveness being thrown to the wind, a couple from both sides of the pond united with an aim towards making this planet better for all of us and the ability to overcome any obstacles that stand in their way gives us hope that if two people can do something like this, its possible that our societies can also overcome such issues also.

The wonderful love story of Harry and Meghan have so many positives to it if we look for them. Paramount at the top of the list is the happiness of the two people involved and everything else is secondary. The thing is that with looking for all the negatives surrounding this union, the things that could be the best things that happen since sliced bread get overlooked because of bias.

Nothing is ever unicorns and rainbows but as one of my favorite poster has for a signature with a quote attributed to Abraham Lincoln, "“If you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will.” Its all how we look at something.

 

[Skippy]

Would those who are 'against' Meghan for her career and any other aspect mentioned here be overjoyed when Harry would have a Catherine-like girlfriend?

 

[Osipi]

Would those who are 'against' Meghan for her career and any other aspect mentioned here be overjoyed when Harry would have a Catherine-like girlfriend?

Personally, from the get go, I thought Meghan was very much a Kate-like girlfriend. In fact, the closest thing to what William has found in Kate. Both women are self assured, comfortable in their own skins, home and family orientated and supportive.

 

[miss whirley]

Would those who are 'against' Meghan for her career and any other aspect mentioned here be overjoyed when Harry would have a Catherine-like girlfriend?

Not really. I can't imagine Harry being attracted to a Catherine-type and I can't imagine a Catherine-type wanting to date Harry. But there are all different types. Camilla, Sophie, and Catherine are all very different yet they aren't pushing this celebrity slope onto the BRF. It's great that Harry and Meghan are in love but they will need to work for the BRF not the BRF working for them, this is the wrong celeb narrative to push. Like I said, high risk, low reward.

 

[Pranter]

Personally, from the get go, I thought Meghan was very much a Kate-like girlfriend. In fact, the closest thing to what William has found in Kate. Both women are self assured, comfortable in their own skins, home and family orientated and supportive.

Me too...and I said for quite awhile before he met Meghan he needs someone like Kate and not Cressida et al and I hoped he would meet her doing some sort of charity work...that he needed to find someone from outside 'his circle'


LaRae

 

[W.Y.CII]

Not really. I can't imagine Harry being attracted to a Catherine-type and I can't imagine a Catherine-type wanting to date Harry. But there are all different types. Camilla, Sophie, and Catherine are all very different yet they aren't pushing this celebrity slope onto the BRF. It's great that Harry and Meghan are in love but they will need to work for the BRF not the BRF working for them, this is the wrong celeb narrative to push. Like I said, high risk, low reward.

Do you mind me asking, what does your "celebrity slope"/"celeb narrative" mean/refer to?

 

[Cocoasneeze]

Not really. I can't imagine Harry being attracted to a Catherine-type and I can't imagine a Catherine-type wanting to date Harry. But there are all different types. Camilla, Sophie, and Catherine are all very different yet they aren't pushing this celebrity slope onto the BRF. It's great that Harry and Meghan are in love but they will need to work for the BRF not the BRF working for them, this is the wrong celeb narrative to push. Like I said, high risk, low reward.

What celebrity slope is Meghan pushing on to the BRF?
I haven't seen anything celebrity from her at all.

 

[Madame Verseau]

Camilla was Charles' side piece (mistress) for years during his marriage to a popular Princess Diana yet the queen signed off on that marriage. As the future king Charles would become Defender of the Faith and Head of the Church of England. Charles could have lost the throne over her, British born or not. Camilla was branded a homewrecker and worse; and there had to do some extensive image rehab for Camilla. The point is, if royal consent was obtained for the heir apparent to marry a woman with such scandal to her name, a marriage between a soon to be sixth in line to the throne and an actress with no dirt on her should not be a problem. I believe the queen would be on shaky ground to say no to Meghan given the precedent.

 

[miss whirley]

Do you mind me asking, what does your "celebrity slope"/"celeb narrative" mean/refer to?

There are various threads/articles about the difference between royalty and celebrity so we shouldn't veer too off topic. But a thread like this http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f38/when-did-the-celebrification-of-diana-begin-33988.html might be interesting read if you're so inclined.

 

[wyevale]

it's about trying to protect the BRF as a whole. This is a very slippery celeb slope that H&M are pushing. High risk, low reward.

AMEN.. this is the real problem,that those [largely from abroad] cannot see, or 'don't have a problem with'...

 

[Cocoasneeze]

There are various threads/articles about the difference between royalty and celebrity so we shouldn't veer too off topic. But a thread like this http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f38/when-did-the-celebrification-of-diana-begin-33988.html might be interesting read if you're so inclined.

You brought up meghan and Harry bringing celebrity stuff into the BRF, A and people wanting to protect BRF from that, and as the thread is about Meghan and Harry, how are they doing that? Withing the year of dating, how have Meghan and Harry brought any celebrity into the royal family?

 

[miss whirley]

Camilla was Charles' side piece (mistress) for years during his marriage to a popular Princess Diana yet the queen signed off on that marriage. As the future king Charles would become Defender of the Faith and Head of the Church of England. Charles could have lost the throne over her, British born or not. Camilla was branded a homewrecker and worse; and there had to do some extensive image rehab for Camilla. The point is, if royal consent was obtained for the heir apparent to marry a woman with such scandal to her name, a marriage between a soon to be sixth in line to the throne and an actress with no dirt on her should not be a problem. I believe the queen would be on shaky ground to say no to Meghan given the precedent.

I really doubt the Queen would say no, though she might advise them on any potential red flags she sees.

 

[Osipi]

What is kind of interesting as far as "celebrities" go, if you look at the other side of the pond, 99.9% of the time, the British royals are treated as if they are celebrities rather than political or world stage persons. I think that is true with some British publications also. Their fashions, their love lives, their quirks and their idiosyncrasies are the name of the game rather than the true focus of the British monarchy is. Its the way of things to feed the masses more of what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear.

Both Harry and Meghan have attained their own reasons for being popular with the masses. Both have attained the status of being "celebrities" in their own way. The trick, I think, is to see these "celebrities" for the reason why they're so celebrated. Is it because of scandal that they've been involved in? Is it because of a focus for bringing issues that need attention to the forefront? Is it because of the depth of a gown's neckline or a ghastly display of of a baby bump? Is it newsworthy or is it gossip and speculation?

Being a celebrity means that for some reason or the other, a person is celebrated, looked up to, is an example of how to be or how not to be. Its all in the perspective of how one looks at a person deemed a "celebrity". Too many people pin the label "celebrity" on something that is dark, negative, scandalous, shocking and attention seeking for their own egos. This isn't always true.

Its pretty much along the lines of a quote from my favorite 19th century transcendentalist essayist, Ralph Waldo Emerson. “Only when it is dark enough, can you see the stars…” Its just too bad that for the most part, what draws attention and generates conversation is the negatives.

I think I need a "I love Ralph" emoji.

AMEN.. this is the real problem,that those [largely from abroad] cannot see, or 'don't have a problem with'...

Protect the British royal family? I think they've done enough all by themselves to attain the ranks of being "celebrities" for negative reasons over the years. It isn't going to warp their reputation or their good works or their dedication to duty, the UK and its people because one more member is added to it.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

You brought up meghan and Harry bringing celebrity stuff into the BRF, A and people wanting to protect BRF from that, and as the thread is about Meghan and Harry, how are they doing that? Withing the year of dating, how have Meghan and Harry brought any celebrity into the royal family?

Apparently mostly just by existing as a couple.

 

[miss whirley]

You brought up meghan and Harry bringing celebrity stuff into the BRF, A and people wanting to protect BRF from that, and as the thread is about Meghan and Harry, how are they doing that? Withing the year of dating, how have Meghan and Harry brought any celebrity into the royal family?

Um, yesterday. That was a pure celeb move. There a reason it's never been done before by previous bfs/gfs. Posters can't justify yesterday move by saying "Well Meghan is a famous celebrity so of course she's going to act differently in the media!", then turn around and say "How has Meghan brought celebrity?". They answered their own question.

I thought Meghan was doing a good job up until yesterday. Now I'm starting to believe that being a celebrity wasn't just a job for her, instead it's who she is. Then you start getting into Diana and Fergie territory.

 

[Mbruno]

Many have said they see KP's fingerprints all over this. I do not, for no other reason than if there is a good way or an even better way to release information they invariably default to BP style bumbling. I do not doubt that this interview was conceived and instigated by Harry and Meghan using her PR team via VF which both Harry and William seem to trust. A trust that was obviously not misplaced since the interview was in June and there were no leaks.

If it is indeed the case that the VF interview was engineered by Harry and Meghan without consulting KP or Clarence House, then I think it is a sign that, rather than being embraced by the RF and the courtiers, there is actually resistance against Meghan behind the Palace's walls. Again, if that is true, it reinforces the perception that Meghan and Harry were using this interview to push their relationship as a "fait accompli" by publicly proclaiming that they are "in love", even though we only actually heard that from Meghan and not from Harry directly. I personally find that scenario problematic in many different ways, not only because Meghan comes out as "pushy", but also because it can backfire and stir up opposition to her in the court.

Of course, there is also the opposite view that this was a Palace-sanctioned interview meant to lay the ground for a future engagement announcement. I seriously doubt it because it is not the way the Palace traditionally operates and the royal establishment is very adverse to change and innovations such as solo giirlfriend interview in a glossy magazine.

 

[Dman]

I hope some folks know that Meghan isn't a major celebrity. Nowhere on the A-List that's for sure.

Letizia Ortiz (Queen Letizia of Spain), was a news media personality and married a Prince. Now she's a popular Queen and a very popular royal on these forums.

I'll never forget how Sofia Hellqvist was treated. Now folks are seeing the good job she's doing as a senior royal in Sweden.

At some point people will figure out that it's about giving people a chance. Tv personality or not.

 

[AlowVera]

What celebrity slope is Meghan pushing on to the BRF?
I haven't seen anything celebrity from her at all.

I honestly don't get what the big deal is. Celebrity slope? we hardly see her! Also Will did GQ along with glossy photos, Kate did Vogue, Harry did Newsweek. Promotion is part of Meghan's job to begin with she has been on the cover of several magazines. The article was basic and pedestrian highlighted by her admitting that she and Harry are happy and a couple. I kind of like that two almost middle aged adults are not playing coy. I hope this signals them becoming semi official similar to how Sophie and Edward where before they even got engaged.

 

[wyevale]

What is kind of interesting as far as "celebrities" go, if you look at the other side of the pond, 99.9% of the time, the British royals are treated as if they are celebrities rather than political or world stage persons.

With [genuine respect] the BRF is not in existence for the benefit of America, but for us, a time honoured institution of MAJOR historical and social importance. That is why we are unhappy if we perceive it to be threatened by other influences that have little or no comprehension of its true nature or that it is CORE to our perception of our country.

 

[Pranter]

With [genuine respect] the BRF is not in existence for the benefit of America, but for us, a time honoured institution of MAJOR historical and social importance. That is why we are unhappy if we perceive it to be threatened by other influences that have little or no comprehension of its true nature or that it is CORE to our perception of our country.

If that's the case it's amazing ya'll haven't replaced the royals you've got now....

LaRae

 

[Skippy]

I don't think that Meghan is a "Catherine-like" woman at all, nor do I think Harry would fit with such a woman.
Catherine appears, to me, more like a homely (positive meaning) woman content with raising her children and the likes and working for her patronages. Just my observation.
Megan is from another kind, more the fun-like woman who gives off a good spirit and who is easy to be around. That's another area to roam about.
There are of course also the "Camilla-like, Sophie-like" etc. women, but I picked Catherine since she will be the nearest woman to Meghan IF things get serious enough.

Let me make the question broader then:
what kind of woman should Harry be with if Meghan is, apparently, 'unsuitable'?

I sincerely like to know what your dream scenario for Harry's girlfriend would be. And if that's already been discussed, please direct me towards it.

 

[W.Y.CII]

There are various threads/articles about the difference between royalty and celebrity so we shouldn't veer too off topic. But a thread like this http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f38/when-did-the-celebrification-of-diana-begin-33988.html might be interesting read if you're so inclined.

... Oh I don't make it clear. I mean what your "celebrity slope"/"celeb narrative" from H&M mean/refer to. Anyway thanks for your link

 

[Skippy]

I honestly don't get what the big deal is. Celebrity slope? we hardly see her! Also Will did GQ along with glossy photos, Kate did Vogue, Harry did Newsweek. Promotion is part of Meghan's job to begin with she has been on the cover of several magazines. The article was basic and pedestrian highlighted by her admitting that she and Harry are happy and a couple. I kind of like that two almost middle aged adults are not playing coy. I hope this signals them becoming semi official similar to how Sophie and Edward where before they even got engaged.

My suspicion is that the gripe is about Meghan having the guts to do it before there is even an engagement while Catherine did it long after her wedding. Something about Meghan not knowing her place?
William and Harry are a no-brainer, although some feel that even they should refrain from "such things".

 

[Cocoasneeze]

Um, yesterday. That was a pure celeb move. There a reason it's never been done before by previous bfs/gfs. Posters can't justify yesterday move by saying "Well Meghan is a famous celebrity so of course she's going to act differently in the media!", then turn around and say "How has Meghan brought celebrity?". They answered their own question.

I thought Meghan was doing a good job up until yesterday. Now I'm starting to believe that being a celebrity wasn't just a job for her, instead it's who she is. Then you start getting into Diana and Fergie territory.

Didn't the Queen also cover VF last year? Catherine was on the cover of Vogue? How come it's such a celebrity move when Meghan is on the cover of VF, but it's not when the royals do it? If she was wearing an engagement ring, it wouldn't be a celebrity move?

 

[O-H Anglophile]

With the 24 hour news cycle needing to fill time, with twitter, instagram, online tabloids, etc the "celebrification"of Royals happened even without the participation or collusion of most of them.
If the Queen were 50 or 60 years younger there would be more questionable stories about her as well in this media driven era.

 

[AlowVera]

My suspicion is that the gripe is about Meghan having the guts to do it before there is even an engagement while Catherine did it long after her wedding. Something about Meghan not knowing her place?
William and Harry are a no-brainer, although some feel that even they should refrain from "such things".

I think she is in a weird zone, she is still on a television show and still a celeb in her own right, however she is also in the semi royalty zone. Its weird but she has done nothing wrong.

I don't know what the gameplan for them is, but I hope it signals them just being who they are and enjoying this relationship in spite of the rumors, innuendo and outright anger. They are too old to play coy IMHO. People act like celebrity is a dirty word yet the IG games has celebrity ambassadors.....maybe Meghan can use her celebrity for good also?

 

[miss whirley]

Didn't the Queen also cover VF last year? Catherine was on the cover of Vogue? How come it's such a celebrity move when Meghan is on the cover of VF, but it's not when the royals do it? If she was wearing an engagement ring, it wouldn't be a celebrity move?

Yes and no. The Queen and Catherine photos weren't of that celeb vein. You also have to look at the content of those articles. Meghan's was a celeb pr profile with celebrity endorsements from her celebrity friends, and then the emotional gushing about her love. Show me where the Queen and Catherine did that in VF or Vogue.

So even if she was married to Harry I would still see it as "too celeb".

 

[Stefanie]

I have the feeling that, in case H&M marry, M will become a second Diana and it will end in a divorce as well..?

 

[Cocoasneeze]

My suspicion is that the gripe is about Meghan having the guts to do it before there is even an engagement while Catherine did it long after her wedding. Something about Meghan not knowing her place?
William and Harry are a no-brainer, although some feel that even they should refrain from "such things".

I like it, tbh. Meghan and Harry aren't acting like a ring on her finger would change her as a person. She's not going to be hidden in the shadows, she is her own person, has her own voice, even without a ring.

I don't think they've acted coy or secretive at all. Right from the start PH stated that Meghan is his girlfriend. They've openly travelled to see each other. Nothing coy about that at all.

 

[Dman]

With the 24 hour news cycle needing to fill time, with twitter, instagram, online tabloids, etc the "celebrification"of Royals happened even without the participation or collusion of most of them.
If the Queen were 50 or 60 years younger there would be more questionable stories about her as well in this media driven era.

I agree. The Queen always knew the younger royals would have a more difficult time though.

Harry and Meghan will do just fine. It's going to take an official engagement announcement, a royal tour around the U.K. and Commonwealth for folks to realize everything will be fine.

Notice how the royal sky didn't fall when "Waity Katey" became a senior royal.