Harry and Meghan: Relationship Musings

[Pranter]

I'm leaning more toward Jan but of course I'd be happy to see an announcement sooner!

As far as tourist Visa's...I think I read *up to 6 months* seems like that would be a case by case basis IF accurate. Just don't see her moving without the ring..unless privately engaged.


LaRae

 

[rominet09]

In the papers they say she will be present at Serena Williams wedding.... if he could be with her it would be nice !

 

[O-H Anglophile]

So there is a possibility of residing in the UK without an official announcement. Can the tourist visa be easily renewed?

I would say that after 3-6 months of day-in-day-out living the couple should know the lay-of-the-land for sure and certain, though without 'something to do' Meghan might get bored, unless she was spending the time 'shopping' for a house/estate (what fun!) and decorating said house/estate, and looking at marriage venues, etc.

I'm sorry but Meghan is house hunting for her and Harry and then decorating said house while waiting an arbitrary amount of time to get to know Harry better to see if she wants to marry him? I don't understand this.

 

[Countessmeout]

So there is a possibility of residing in the UK without an official announcement. Can the tourist visa be easily renewed?

I would say that after 3-6 months of day-in-day-out living the couple should know the lay-of-the-land for sure and certain, though without 'something to do' Meghan might get bored, unless she was spending the time 'shopping' for a house/estate (what fun!) and decorating said house/estate, and looking at marriage venues, etc.

There is no tourist visa. For a US citizen, tourists don't need a visa.

The time limit for US tourists is actually 6 months not 3 months. And no, she would be required to prove she planned to leave in 6 months. Things like a return ticket, a job, a home, something in the US. She would not be permitted to move her things to the UK, though she could bring her dogs.

She would be required to leave after 6 months. The amount of time between leaving and coming back is up to border security. But if border security sees her travel and has reason she is returning too often for long term stays, she can face a long term ban on entering the country.

Your visa may be cancelled and you may get a long-term ban on visiting if your travel history shows you’re repeatedly living in the UK for extended periods.

She would likely have to leave for about two to three months, from what most sites recommend, to not risk facing that ban. Now if she was say coming and going for work volunteering or home, that 6 months may be extended, as long as her actual weeks in the UK were no more then 6 months.

so basically

1. tourist visa
a. stay for six months and leave for two months
b. come and go, to extend the six months

2. fiancé visa: no engagement is actually required. Just have to actually be married in six months. If she comes December, would mean she would have to marry by June.

3. Work or volunteer visa: have to find a job or charity agency willing to hire her and sponsor her for a visa. But then she would face talk about landing a position based souly on who she was dating.

 

[Curryong]

Yes, here's hoping, rominet09. However the wedding may well be tomorrow (if rumours on social media are correct guests are already gathered) and if it is then it would be one almighty rush to get there. Meghan might well have a few extra things to do for Suits in Toronto even if filming has already finished and Harry had an engagement in London only a few hours ago.

 

[Madame Verseau]

I'm not saying Serena and Pippa are on the same level; I'm talking about treatment by the press. If Harry and Meghan announce before Serena's wedding - or worse the day of the wedding therefore they can't come - who would get the lion's share of the press coverage?

 

[MARG]

With all this talk of Visas, etc. I thought to myself that the immigration law in the UK is pretty old-fashioned and rigid. Many have advocated a period of "living together" for Harry and Meghan and it seems that is a legal impossibility. Six months and you are married or six months and you leave the country. A de facto relationship is not recognised as too are test drives.

IMO a period of shacking up together will prove nothing to either of them because, as Harry has said, it's all about finding a woman willing to accept him and his baggage. As a girlfriend or live-in lover, she would merely get prurient paparazzi sliming around but she would not be beside him at a formal engagement actually experiencing or living "his baggage".

An engagement ring takes care of that. And while an engagement usually ends in a marriage it is neither outrageous nor uncommon should one or the other find the notion of such a life untenable and terminates the engagement.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I'm not saying Serena and Pippa are on the same level; I'm talking about treatment by the press. If Harry and Meghan announce before Serena's wedding - or worse the day of the wedding therefore they can't come - who would get the lion's share of the press coverage?

Serena's wedding is said to be tomorrow. I don't really expect a H&M engagement announcement tomorrow.?

IMO a period of shacking up together will prove nothing to either of them because, as Harry has said, it's all about finding a woman willing to accept him and his baggage. As a girlfriend or live-in lover, she would merely get prurient paparazzi sliming around but she would not be beside him at a formal engagement actually experiencing or living "his baggage".

This is exactly what I think. And with the Internet, Skype, smart phones, etc communication has advanced from the days of long distance courting by snail mail. They have been able to communicate while apart.

 

[Alliec76]

There is no tourist visa. For a US citizen, tourists don't need a visa.

The time limit for US tourists is actually 6 months not 3 months. And no, she would be required to prove she planned to leave in 6 months. Things like a return ticket, a job, a home, something in the US. She would not be permitted to move her things to the UK, though she could bring her dogs.

She would be required to leave after 6 months. The amount of time between leaving and coming back is up to border security. But if border security sees her travel and has reason she is returning too often for long term stays, she can face a long term ban on entering the country.



She would likely have to leave for about two to three months, from what most sites recommend, to not risk facing that ban. Now if she was say coming and going for work volunteering or home, that 6 months may be extended, as long as her actual weeks in the UK were no more then 6 months.

so basically

1. tourist visa
a. stay for six months and leave for two months
b. come and go, to extend the six months

2. fiancé visa: no engagement is actually required. Just have to actually be married in six months. If she comes December, would mean she would have to marry by June.

3. Work or volunteer visa: have to find a job or charity agency willing to hire her and sponsor her for a visa. But then she would face talk about landing a position based souly on who she was dating.

Good info. I didn't know that about the tourist Visa. Based on the information you provided I'd say that option would be completely out, as it would cause more trouble than it's worth. I'm not sure if she even still has her place in LA. She couldn't just stay in Toronto indefinitely if she is no longer on Suits, because she's in Canada on a work visa. I guess she could say she was living with her mom for the US address, but that would just look shady.

So there are really only 2 viable options. She comes to the UK on a fiancee visa, in which case they'd need to get the timing right to meet the 6 month deadline. Or she comes on a work visa, which, as already explained, has its own share of problems. I think it's a shame that any job she'd possibly get, mostly likely in the charity world, would be so scrutinized, and chalked up to special treatment, because I think she'd probably be more than qualified to work in that field on her own merits. But the press and the public would never see it that way, so she's best to steer clear of that. I know some people don't like it, but logically, I'm just not sure she has any other options.

 

[sndral]

Citizens of some countries require a tourist visa to visit the U.K..
Citizens of the U.S. do not need a visa of any sort to visit the U.K.. They can stay for 6 months. So Meghan, just like any other US citizen, can grab her passport, hop on a plane to London and stay there 6 months, no further paperwork required.
Let's say 3 months into her visit she becomes engaged, she can then presumably apply for a fiancé visa which requires her to marry a citizen of the U.K. w/in 6 months of getting that visa.
Thus H&M have 12 months from her arrival in the U.K. to marry.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Citizens of some countries require a tourist visa to visit the U.K..
Citizens of the U.S. do not need a visa of any sort to visit the U.K.. They can stay for 6 months. So Meghan, just like any other US citizen, can grab her passport, hop on a plane to London and stay there 6 months, no further paperwork required.
Let's say 3 months into her visit she becomes engaged, she can then presumably apply for a fiancé visa which requires her to marry a citizen of the U.K. w/in 6 months of getting that visa.
Thus H&M have 12 months from her arrival in the U.K. to marry.

Not a full 12 months-there is the pesky rule that requires tourists to leave for several months after 6 months in the U.K. before returning that was described upthread.

 

[Countessmeout]

Citizens of some countries require a tourist visa to visit the U.K..
Citizens of the U.S. do not need a visa of any sort to visit the U.K.. They can stay for 6 months. So Meghan, just like any other US citizen, can grab her passport, hop on a plane to London and stay there 6 months, no further paperwork required.
Let's say 3 months into her visit she becomes engaged, she can then presumably apply for a fiancé visa which requires her to marry a citizen of the U.K. w/in 6 months of getting that visa.
Thus H&M have 12 months from her arrival in the U.K. to marry.

No, Meghan would still be required to leave the country. If she is in the UK as a tourist, she cannot apply for the fiancé visa. She has to be out of the country when she applies.

I am currently in the UK visiting my fiancee, can I apply from here?

A settlement fiancee visa application can only be made from outside the UK.

http://www.marriagevisahelp.com/united-kingdom/uk-fiancee-visa-faq-2/

Fortunately an express fiancé visa should only take 10-15 business days to process. So it may simply be a matter of her returning to the US for a few weeks until the new visa is processed.

How long does the fiancee visa process usually take?
Visa application processing times vary considerably from country to country and from Consulate to Consulate. On average the fiancee visa process can take two to three months. Some countries, such as Japan, Brazil, Taiwan, Canada and the US have an expedited service. Premium applications, where available, are normally processed within 10 to 15 days.

Considering if she is in the UK on a tourist visa, she cant bring her things with her, she may need the time anyways. When out of the country waiting to process the fiancé visa, she could see to sending the rest of her things.


Honestly I still have a feeling we will see a proposal in early January and a late May wedding. The reality is Meghan is not going to get a feel for royal life until she is at least his fiancé. As his girlfriend she cant be part of his official life. Its not the same as testing waters in other relationships.

 

[Cocoasneeze]

Reading your all's posts here, it's becoming more and more clear to me, that living together as a boyfriend and girlfriend is pretty much out if the question because of all the hassle and coming and going because of visa issues. They couldn't realistically build a life and home together, because Meghan couldn't bring her belongings to the UK, and would be required to leave for a few months after a 6 month period. She also couldn't work at all. It also wouldn't endear her to the British public, just basically staying in UK and doing nothing. She also would be excluded from any official RF events.

I'm thinking that Harry and Meghan will announce their engagement in December, and it'll be a May wedding.

 

[sndral]

No, Meghan would still be required to leave the country. If she is in the UK as a tourist, she cannot apply for the fiancé visa. She has to be out of the country when she applies.



http://www.marriagevisahelp.com/united-kingdom/uk-fiancee-visa-faq-2/

Fortunately an express fiancé visa should only take 10-15 business days to process. So it may simply be a matter of her returning to the US for a few weeks until the new visa is processed.



Considering if she is in the UK on a tourist visa, she cant bring her things with her, she may need the time anyways. When out of the country waiting to process the fiancé visa, she could see to sending the rest of her things.


Honestly I still have a feeling we will see a proposal in early January and a late May wedding. The reality is Meghan is not going to get a feel for royal life until she is at least his fiancé. As his girlfriend she cant be part of his official life. Its not the same as testing waters in other relationships.

Thanks for clarifying. I started looking at marriage visas and indefinite leave to remain, etc. and my head started spinning! Harry has access to the best legal talent, thus I expect whatever needs to be done to allow the couple to be in the U.K. together, marry in the U.K. if that is their desire and thereafter live together in the U.K. will be accomplished by said legal team.
Didn't Zara announce her engagement in Dec., after William and Catherine announced in late October? I wonder if we'll see another double w/ Meghan/Harry followed by Eugenie/Jack.
I've always thought Eugenie suited for a winter wedding for some reason.

 

[evolvingdoors]

Hi guys first time writer long time reader.
I had to sign up because the all visa talk is kind of my field and I was having a deep need to put forward some info.

Like many other countries the UK has what is called an exceptional talent visa, it’s a visa where a person can personally apply for it based on their own merits, provided they fall into a handful of categories and can prove said merit (they need to provide evidence)

Apply for the Global Talent visa

Apply for a Global Talent visa to work in the arts, sciences or digital technology once you have been endorsed as a leader or potential leader.

www.gov.uk

In Meghan case, I think being a aupporting actress in a decently known tv show, be nominated and win for awards in her industry (has she? Google is coming back blank) and being interviewed and written about her job; can be enough for her to be approved. The process takes like 4-5 months in total and she doesn’t have to physically be in the uk to apply- for all we know she may have already applied for one.

The visa will allow her up to 5 years of living in the uk without having her visa being tied down to a specific studio or person (in this case Harry). And allow her to work in the Uk within the Industry freely.
The visa can be extended or after 5 years one can try and apply for citizenship.

As for getting a part on who she’s dating, she can always try and bypass that by creating her own production company - if she chooses to- and thus produce and create any movies or shows she stars in.


But this visa will allow her to live in the uk while pursuing a short distance relationship with Harry (even living together) and will allow them to see if this really is the real deal for them.
If the relationship ends she can always chose to continue to stay in the uk and work or return to the US.


Just my two cents on the issue.

 

[Lady Nimue]

The Visa and the "what will she do"? A fiancee Visa has a 6 month time table on it and a no working clause. A work Visa requires that you, well, work. The only other option is continuing to come over on a visitors visa as she has been doing (and also, no working). But she'd have to leave and come back every 3 months I believe, and she couldn't really move her stuff.

There are really no perfect scenarios, but the one that protects Meghan best (who after all will be giving up the most) is not moving to the UK full time without an official engagement. Anything else, in my humble opinion, just leaves her at a distinct disadvantage and with no protection, or clearly defined role. I expect Meghan will be spending much more time in the UK, now that Suits is wrapped. But I would not expect any full scale move until there is an announcement of an engagement. And I'm honestly not seeing that until December or January. Anyway that's just my take.

You make excellent points about the protection an engagement would ensure. It's not an insignificant consideration.

All the information about the visas is so interesting. Complicated really. It will be very interesting to see how they finesse the whole affair to their desired ends.

Maybe Meghan will repair to L.A. for the holidays. Move her stuff there, or do we already know that Meghan has put her stuff in storage in Toronto? Or is that a speculation?

I'm sorry but Meghan is house hunting for her and Harry and then decorating said house while waiting an arbitrary amount of time to get to know Harry better to see if she wants to marry him? I don't understand this.

No, she is not doing that, I was speculating what Meghan might do with her time while living in the UK prior to an engagement and/or marriage (if that scenario played out). That's all.

IMO a period of shacking up together will prove nothing to either of them because, as Harry has said, it's all about finding a woman willing to accept him and his baggage.

It's a bit more nuanced, this 'shacking up', less about royalty than essential personal compatibility. (These are people from two different cultures, however apparently similar, augmented by the royal/class status issues). However, it's already compromised because a 'normal' daily routine is not possible unless they are engaged. So there it is.

As a girlfriend or live-in lover, she would merely get prurient paparazzi sliming around but she would not be beside him at a formal engagement actually experiencing or living "his baggage".An engagement ring takes care of that.

I view his 'baggage' as personal (not royal). It's also a two-way street. Meghan has her 'baggage', too. We all do. Living together for a while shakes all that down. But your point about not being protected unless she is engaged is a significant one imo. It's what convinces me that there will be an engagement (or a serious understanding) if Meghan moves to the UK.

And while an engagement usually ends in a marriage it is neither outrageous nor uncommon should one or the other find the notion of such a life untenable and terminates the engagement.

Exactly so, but it would be very unusual for the BRF. It appears that with the BRF once an announcement is made the wedding falls fast on the heels of the formal engagement. For the above termination to occur there would have to be the formal engagement with the wedding date to-be-determined/announced at some future unspecified time. How else to have the leeway (possible termination) baked into the cake? How would that go over?

I have to say I am more interested in how they handle all this than the actual outcome. ? It's a mystery. I will trust that Meghan will keep her wits about her as she transits through this most interesting time.

 

[Cocoasneeze]

It is really interesting to see how they'll handle this all, what happens next. The double whammy of the visa issues AND the enormous difference between the status of a royal girlfriend vs fiancé adds an extra layer of interest to me.
The security issue is huge. Clearly Meghan and Harry, and those around them don't take that lightly, and they shouldn't. Meghan already received death threats on social media over her character's actions on the show, even before meeting Harry. I'm 100% sure she has received a few more after the romance became public. Her employers took it seriously, and no doubt the RF does too. As a girlfriend, she'd be responsible for her own security, as far as I understand. As a fiancé, it wouldn't be her responsibility.
Interesting times, for sure. What happens next, and when, and how. Can't wait to see it all roll out.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Hi guys first time writer long time reader.
I had to sign up because the all visa talk is kind of my field and I was having a deep need to put forward some info.

Like many other countries the UK has what is called an exceptional talent visa, it’s a visa where a person can personally apply for it based on their own merits, provided they fall into a handful of categories and can prove said merit (they need to provide evidence)

https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-exceptional-talent

In Meghan case, I think being a aupporting actress in a decently known tv show, be nominated and win for awards in her industry (has she? Google is coming back blank) and being interviewed and written about her job; can be enough for her to be approved. The process takes like 4-5 months in total and she doesn’t have to physically be in the uk to apply- for all we know she may have already applied for one.

The visa will allow her up to 5 years of living in the uk without having her visa being tied down to a specific studio or person (in this case Harry). And allow her to work in the Uk within the Industry freely.
The visa can be extended or after 5 years one can try and apply for citizenship.

As for getting a part on who she’s dating, she can always try and bypass that by creating her own production company - if she chooses to- and thus produce and create any movies or shows she stars in.


But this visa will allow her to live in the uk while pursuing a short distance relationship with Harry (even living together) and will allow them to see if this really is the real deal for them.
If the relationship ends she can always chose to continue to stay in the uk and work or return to the US.


Just my two cents on the issue.

First, welcome. I know how it is to read for a long time and decide to finally join in.
Although in some respects that looks like a possible solution, the production company idea is probably a no go-it didn't work out very well for Harry's Uncle Edward.

 

[Madame Verseau]

Prince Edward's ex is telling Meghan not to give up acting on DM. Who is she to say anything?

 

[wyevale]

"Exceptional Talent" ?

By NO possible stretch of the imagination could Ms Markle be thought to possess that.

She is B list [at best] !

 

[O-H Anglophile]

[ Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile
I'm sorry but Meghan is house hunting for her and Harry and then decorating said house while waiting an arbitrary amount of time to get to know Harry better to see if she wants to marry him? I don't understand this] end of my original post

No, she is not doing that, I was speculating what Meghan might do with her time while living in the UK prior to an engagement and/or marriage (if that scenario played out). That's all.

Yes, we know she is not currently doing that. That wasn't the point of my post.

It's a bit more nuanced, this 'shacking up', ... augmented by the royal/class status issues). However, it's already compromised because a 'normal' daily routine is not possible unless they are engaged. So there it is.

Exactly! That is what many of us have been trying to point out. Joining The Firm is not something you can experience until you are in it.

I view his 'baggage' as personal (not royal). It's also a two-way street. Meghan has her 'baggage', too. We all do. Living together for a while shakes all that down. But your point about not being protected unless she is engaged is a significant one imo. It's what convinces me that there will be an engagement (or a serious understanding) if Meghan moves to the UK.

I think Meghan knows Harry's personal "baggage" enough to know if she wants to take it on. If you love each other and are committed to making your marriage work you can overcome a lot. The "baggage" that is more difficult is life as a Royal.

My responses in bold in above message.

 

[Osipi]

Regardless of her ability to perform whether its A list or Z list, I think we can all agree that should she become engaged to and marry Harry, her acting career will pretty much be a thing of the past. The only way I would see her being able to use her talents would be if she supported an organization that promotes the dramatic arts.

So, in short, an engagement to Harry means that her acting career exits stage left.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

"Exceptional Talent" ?

By NO possible stretch of the imagination could Ms Markle be thought to possess that.

She is B list [at best] !

No she is not an internationally recognized actress (at least prior to dating Harry), but "exceptional talent can transcend that. And BTW "B list" is still pretty darn good.
Anyway, I think that avenue would lead to the same criticisms that hindered Edward and Sophie when they worked privately.

 

[wyevale]

And BTW "B list" is still pretty darn good.

TBH I only classified her as such out of consideration for her fans.. IMO she is nowhere near that ranking..

 

[Curryong]

Have you ever watched Suits Wyevale, or seen Meghan act? And whatever the view of her acting skills or not, she has at least been on a syndicated show for seven seasons and earned her own money, making an independent living in a profession in which about 95% of actors are unemployed at the one time. Better than not working at all, and certainly not deserving of being sneered at in any way.

 

[wyevale]

Yes, I have Curryong. A friend sent me two episodes of 'Suits'..

It is indeed better than not working at all, but i repeat in NO way can her talent be described or categorised as 'exceptional'.

 

[AlowVera]

TBH I only classified her as such out of consideration for her fans.. IMO she is nowhere near that ranking..

To be honest the A-Z list ranking is a thing of the past. Meghan is a woman of color who has made a successful living in an industry in which most actors are out of work and must take second jobs just to make a living. For women of color you cannot judge them against other actresses because it is so much harder for them to even get a job in the first place. For WOC it usually takes 10 years in the business working small roles until you finally get a real break. So you may think you are putting Meghan down by calling her Z-list or B-List but you are not. Also if you have never heard of Meghan before she started dating PH that is not a big deal, with over 500 television shows in production its hard to know every actor who is working, shows like Riverdale are popular today but I've never seen an episode or know who the actors are, that doesn't make them any less successful.

 

[Curryong]

I always think that passing judgement on other people's skills and talents if you're not an expert in that particular field is very subjective.

Those granting these visas may well hold another opinion. And in any case once she is a member of the BRF Meghan's career will cease anyway.

 

[wyevale]

With respect AlowVera,

I am perfectly able to judge whether I MYSELF consider an individual to be 'exceptional' in their field. They are either BRILLIANT, or they are not, regardless of their age, sex, race, looks or any other criteria. Peer groups also make those judgements, and Ms Markle has received no such accolades [as far as I know].

 

[AlowVera]

With respect AlowVera,

I am perfectly able to judge whether I consider an individual to be 'exceptional' in their field. They are either BRILLIANT, or they are not, regardless of their age, sex, race, looks or any other criteria.

It is what the Entertainment Industry thinks and the industry makes its ill formed judgements based on age, sex, and race. Those factors can limit the number of opportunities one has irregardless of talent.