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  #2021  
Old 10-11-2017, 02:04 PM
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I can't think that this would be any problem whatsoever. Its all part and parcel of taking on Harry and his role in the "Firm". As bowing an/or curtsying denotes a mark of respect and is, for the most part, optional, she'll easily adapt to the any protocol she has to follow.

To me, its similar to doors. Some women actually take offense to a man opening and holding a door for her while some find it still chivalrous for a man to do so. I'm in the latter category. Then again, there are times where I'd open and hold a door for man. Especially if its the other half and he's carrying all the groceries.
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  #2022  
Old 10-11-2017, 02:34 PM
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I cannot see why so many [generally] Americans view bowing/cutseying as 'bowing and scraping' rather than a gesture of respect to either an individual, or office or Nation [depending on ones own feelings]...
After all Americans show huge respect for a FLAG, which we find completely bizarre. Nevertheless if I lived in America, I would accept it, as Ms Markle will have to accept our habits and eccentricities IF she chooses to make a life amongst us.
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  #2023  
Old 10-11-2017, 03:23 PM
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I don't think most Americans give it a thought really...and if they think it is 'bowing and scraping' to me that indicates they really don't understand the history or the way things are currently.

If a countries traditions harm no one then who cares if a person bows or kneels or shakes hands? Some cultures rub noses or touch foreheads!

LaRae
  #2024  
Old 10-11-2017, 05:00 PM
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If you watch a couple of the Jane Austin based movie/series, you'll see the characters curtsying and bowing to each other all over the place.
The subtle differences in customs sort of hit me several months ago when I was on a cruise in the Adriatic and came to know a delightful group of folks from England. Midway through the cruise we'd apparently become close enough to reach the cheek kissing stage - something not really done in my part of California (which BTW is currently blanketed by a thick fog of smoke.) I thought it was charming and soon got the hang of it :)
I'm sure Meghan will graciously accept the social customs/norms of her adopted country if a marriage happens.
  #2025  
Old 10-11-2017, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenPenny View Post
Thanks for your reply, jacqui24. I agree that these days it is a choice, but I would be so uncomfortable with people making that choice when it would come to bowing & curtseying to me. That's why I think I would make it known that I do not want anyone bowing or curtseying in my direction. And honestly, I can't imagine any American being fine with it.
As an American, I'd find it strange to get used to, but I would just get used to it because it wouldn't be my place to do otherwise. I think many Americans in that position would do the same.

I don't think the custom still carries the connotations of subservience that you seem to be ascribing to it. It seems to me that it would be very rude (and more than a little selfish) to instruct people not to engage in a bow or curtsey if that's what they want to do. They're completely a matter of personal taste now, so issuing a ban on them would be like insisting that people avoid the word "hello" when greeting you--it would be more than a little imperious and picky.

They're not really bowing to the person, after all, but to the title. In this day and age it's more about some people wanting to make a nod to tradition than it is truly putting royals on a pedestal. Shoot, people showing up at public appearances at all is as much or more about interest in the concept of royalty than it is the individual who is going to be there. It's wise for any member of any royal family to remember that basic concept as they go about their duties and separate their own ego and sense of self from the attention that comes with their position.

As an actress, Meghan has more practice than most with separating her work self from her own self. If she does marry Harry, I suspect making peace with accepting the attention of the crowd, including very British customs like bows and curtseys, will just be part of the "role" or "character" of her new gig.
  #2026  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
As an actress, Meghan has more practice than most with separating her work self from her own self. If she does marry Harry,
I suspect making peace with accepting the attention of the crowd, including very British customs like bows and curtseies, will just be part of the "role" or "character" of her new gig[/B].
Very well said, loonytick. This reminds me of what I heard about Princess Grace of Monaco being told she would play her most important role as a princess and not a Hollywood actress.
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  #2027  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
As an American, I'd find it strange to get used to, but I would just get used to it because it wouldn't be my place to do otherwise. I think many Americans in that position would do the same.

I don't think the custom still carries the connotations of subservience that you seem to be ascribing to it. It seems to me that it would be very rude (and more than a little selfish) to instruct people not to engage in a bow or curtsey if that's what they want to do. They're completely a matter of personal taste now, so issuing a ban on them would be like insisting that people avoid the word "hello" when greeting you--it would be more than a little imperious and picky.

They're not really bowing to the person, after all, but to the title. In this day and age it's more about some people wanting to make a nod to tradition than it is truly putting royals on a pedestal. Shoot, people showing up at public appearances at all is as much or more about interest in the concept of royalty than it is the individual who is going to be there. It's wise for any member of any royal family to remember that basic concept as they go about their duties and separate their own ego and sense of self from the attention that comes with their position.

As an actress, Meghan has more practice than most with separating her work self from her own self. If she does marry Harry, I suspect making peace with accepting the attention of the crowd, including very British customs like bows and curtseys, will just be part of the "role" or "character" of her new gig.
I agree with your points. In fact I think the Royals in general have their public personas and style that are different from their privates selves. I doubt Meghan will have issues with adapting should she marry Harry.
  #2028  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I don't think most Americans give it a thought really...and if they think it is 'bowing and scraping' to me that indicates they really don't understand the history or the way things are currently.

If a countries traditions harm no one then who cares if a person bows or kneels or shakes hands? Some cultures rub noses or touch foreheads!

LaRae
Just my personal experience. I've known any number of Korean War Veteran era Americans who always reacted quite negatively to speaking of bowing to any king/queen. It's the only generation here that I've seen with this issue. I think in general, most Americans either are oblivious to or find royalty some kind of amusement.

I've always thought these cranky pants lived through some events in the press that marked them, but I've never come across anyone that could tell me why they felt as they did. I usually got some version of "we are Americans and we bow to no one, do you hear me? No one!"

Off topic, except to say that I doubt much of the US population cares one way or another how Meghan deals with this.
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  #2029  
Old 10-11-2017, 08:34 PM
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I don't think it is a big problem.... every situation in life has its advantages and disadvantages.....
  #2030  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:48 AM
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It seems it is an issue when it is who is doing the bowing and to whom. I recall a lot of criticism of Obama and bowing to the emperor, and the Saudi king. The idea that the president of the US should bow to anyone was outrageous to many. It was seen as a sign of subservience not respect.

I don't think Meghan will have an issue with being bowed to. And honestly, its not likely to happen much now a days. Other then to the queen. Its just one aspect of royal life she will get used to, being bowed to and bowing. Critical thinking adults can understand its simply a sign of respect, not of obedience.
  #2031  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
It seems it is an issue when it is who is doing the bowing and to whom. I recall a lot of criticism of Obama and bowing to the emperor, and the Saudi king. The idea that the president of the US should bow to anyone was outrageous to many. It was seen as a sign of subservience not respect.

I don't think Meghan will have an issue with being bowed to. And honestly, its not likely to happen much now a days. Other then to the queen. Its just one aspect of royal life she will get used to, being bowed to and bowing. Critical thinking adults can understand its simply a sign of respect, not of obedience.

The reason for the "outrage" was that it is not the custom in the U.S. for a president to do so. The Queen doesn't bow/curtsey....there's a reason.

From what I have seen at the various events with the BRF...the majority don't curtsey to them.


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  #2032  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:08 AM
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No, because its not Required for a head of state to bow to another. Note Prince Philip does bow to the emperor, even if his wife does not. No one, save the prime minister of GB out of custom, is expected to bow to the queen politician wise.

Obama certainly wasn't the first president to bow, though people make it out like he was doing something never done before and subservient.


http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...EUROPE-007.jpg

http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/.a...6a46016970b-pi

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...e_1523801i.jpg



Meghan would certainly be in good company.
  #2033  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:12 AM
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My guess is that there was some 'outrage' then too if another president bowed to another head of state.


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  #2034  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
My guess is that there was some 'outrage' then too if another president bowed to another head of state.


LaRae
It really is a sad state of affairs when showing Respect is outrageous

Hopefully if Meghan has grown up with a similar mind set, her 'princess training' will help her realize bowing is simply respect. When in Rome and all.
  #2035  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
It really is a sad state of affairs when showing Respect is outrageous

Hopefully if Meghan has grown up with a similar mind set, her 'princess training' will help her realize bowing is simply respect. When in Rome and all.
I think the average private citizen doing it is no big deal...but it is different when a head of state does it. Meghan will be marrying into a family that curtesy's ....that's a totally different thing than a head of state bowing to another head of state.

LaRae
  #2036  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:34 AM
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Please note that to discuss the subject of bowing and curtseying generally and our individual thoughts on the matter, we have the Bowing and Curtseying thread.
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  #2037  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:54 AM
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More from the Daily Fail
Are Meghan Markle and Prince Harry already engaged? | Daily Mail Online
  #2038  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:21 AM
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Just one more thought about Meghan having to adapt to certain protocols if and when she marries into the the BRF.

Most people that take offense to certain protocols such as deference to the order or precedence or any other protocol that may be seem outdated and perhaps even sexist to one born and raised in the USA, to me, would be the type of person that would perhaps put more importance on their own self esteem and ego and have a harder time of adapting to these protocols.

Meghan, to me, does not come across as this type of a person. She most definitely is not one that seeks attention to herself. She seems to put more emphasis into wanting to give back than to receive and even with being a professional actress, she has a talent for adapting to different "roles".

If and when she does marry Harry, I think she will easily be able to adapt to whatever her public role will entail. She will be genuine in her role also as I don't think Harry would stick around someone that isn't genuine. Its a character trait that stands out with Harry and he's been around enough to instinctively know when someone is brown nosing him or isn't being their true selves. The fact that these two people have consistently kept a very close relationship going from both sides indicates to me that these are two genuine people that are in genuinely in love with each other.
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  #2039  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:27 AM
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If Meghan had any qualms about bowing or following even seemingly antiquated foreign customs she wouldn't have studied International Relations or taken a job in the foreign services, IMO.

As a member of staff at a US embassy she would have done things like allow senior staff to walk in front of her, stand and remain standing until outranking officials have seated themselves at dinner parties, know and follow local greeting customs like kisses/handshakes/bows, and even follow seemingly outdated gender roles if necessary because "lacking a specific mission agenda, the diplomat's role is not to change host country customs".

https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/176174.pdf

Learning and following protocol, bowing or otherwise, is one area I don't see Meghan having any issues with.
  #2040  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:49 PM
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The comments re that Daily Fail article are horrible. It seems like no one in the UK like Meghan. They fear she will dilute the blood line and end the royal family and think she is attention seeking.
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