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  #301  
Old 06-25-2017, 10:22 AM
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I think it's pure sad that the media got it wrong with Harry. Now there's a lot of unnecessary PR noise that he have to deal with. Obviously, the media will not say they got it wrong, so it's his problem.

Everyone on this forum, other royal watchers and veteran royal reporters/correspondents know the royals primary focus, attention and drive is pretty much dedication to service and duty to the people of the United Kingdom, Commonwealth and all other territories under The Queen. They spend a great deal of time of their lives extended the role of the monarch by being royal patron of countless charities, organizations and have many honorary roles within the military. The institution of the monarchy is very ancient, but it survives by the will of the people and the hard work of the family itself.

Do anyone think Prince Harry, who loves and respects his family, would undermine the roles of his grandmother, father and brother?
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  #302  
Old 06-25-2017, 10:30 AM
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Something very strange happened to my mac when I edited this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
As always, your post reflects a lot of thought and is clear and precise in what you say. Its a quality I admire.

I think that letter you quoted pretty much reflects everything we've been hashing out in this forum. Points out the mistakes Harry has made and gives precise reasons what they *are* mistakes.

My thought though, at the end with the comment that Harry would "still do his own shopping even if he were king" would be that I would insert my own opinion that if it ever arose that Harry would be king, he may just find out that his schedule doesn't allow time for shopping.
Thanks Osipi (nice of you to write) and I feel exactly the same about your posts, and thanks to all those who uses the thanks button!

It's not easy to write when you're dyslexic like me, but I think I've gotten better in the past year. And I am writing a lot worse in Norwegian, almost worse than the dyslexic Prime Minister Erna Solberg, who is bullied for it by trolls for her posts on facebook.


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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Yes, Royal Norway, Rachel from the Daily Mail, hmm. The Daily Fail, that rag that many regular posters on this forum, (including myself to be fair,) discount, criticise and make fun of, week after week, month after month, year after year. Unless it's something we agree with, of course!

Oh, by the way, Dickie Arbiter, who was criticised for publishing a book about his life as Royal Press Secretary, (been retired for years) has been irritated by Harry for some months about his girlfriend, Meghan, whom he described on his Twitter page last year as 'a fling.'
1. There is hardly anyone who criticizes the Daily Fail or (my new naime) Daily Lying more than me, but I often agree with many of the more serious people there when it comes to the monarchy, especially Robert Hardman.

2. If I had not seen the tweet from Dickie Arbiter I wouldn't have read the letter from Rachel Johnson either.

3. Dickie Arbiter - pro Diana/Harry, praised both of them often in the past. And I for one liked his book (that was after I read it.)

4. Rachel Johnson - pro Harry, praised him in the past.

5. And as Mbruno wrote, it's not only the DF who have a problem with this. Almost everyone I talks too are pretty angry with him.
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  #303  
Old 06-25-2017, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Do anyone think Prince Harry, who loves and respects his family, would undermine the roles of his grandmother, father and brother?
Most of us here are pretty much informed by watching and reading of what the roles of the BRF are and how they not only take it seriously but also represent the continuity of the monarchy.

Then there is the rest of the world where there are so many people that will only pay attention to headlines in tabloids and blips on a news report and social media and form their opinions from that with no real knowledge into how the royal family operates.

As I've seen recently somewhere here, Charles has been reputed to say "Sometimes I think we're just a soap opera".
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  #304  
Old 06-25-2017, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post

Do anyone think Prince Harry, who loves and respects his family, would undermine the roles of his grandmother, father and brother?
No one is accusing him of doing it intentionally.
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  #305  
Old 06-25-2017, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Most of us here are pretty much informed by watching and reading of what the roles of the BRF are and how they not only take it seriously but also represent the continuity of the monarchy.

Then there is the rest of the world where there are so many people that will only pay attention to headlines in tabloids and blips on a news report and social media and form their opinions from that with no real knowledge into how the royal family operates.

As I've seen recently somewhere here, Charles has been reputed to say "Sometimes I think we're just a soap opera".
Osipi, I'm just shocked that the media and people online are using Harry's words against him. He talks about service of the monarchy and his struggles to deal with the aftermath of his mother's very tragic passing, and people are pretty much throwing all his words right back in his face. The crazy part is that everyone was just praising the man same meaningful words leading up to Heads Together campaign marathon.

What has he done to deserve this kind of treatment?

I know some people feel they have to protect the institution of the monarchy and think anyone who sounds like they're undermining it must be bashed. That's not what Harry is doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
No one is accusing him of doing it intentionally.
He didn't do it at all. People obviously misunderstood him. The headline made it seem like he's saying the family don't care about the role of the monarch. The way he meant it is they no one wants to be a king and Queen in the family, but take on the role with a sense of duty and service when it it comes to them. There's no game of thrones hunger for the iron throne in the British royal family.
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  #306  
Old 06-25-2017, 10:53 AM
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Good points @Osipi. I actually linked the video interview earlier in this thread in which Prince Harry discussed making that decision. So yes, his decision definitely had to do with the fact that at some point he would have had to face desk job requirements. And he clearly liked working out in the field with his mates and the men he oversaw. So of course the looming reality of a desk job weighed into his decision not to renew his commission. But the other factor inevitably was that his royal duties and status often conflicted with and prevented him from being able to engage in front line battle, and he wasn't always available to take part in other operations and assignments. He spoke about this specifically in the interview I linked. He did not feel good about not being there for his men, and having to allow other officers to sub for him. So his royal status was one of the hindering factors in his decision to leave the army.

Thanks as well for elaborating on the point about the night visit to the museum, which was reported in the media, but which has not yet been confirmed. I was simply responding to the OTT criticism in the Rachel Johnson letter. If H&M did in fact have to visit the museum at night with RPOs for security reasons, then clearly that supports the points I outlined in my previous post. Some view it as a perk and a privilege to be able to have an entire museum to yourself at night, when it's not actually that cut and dried. Your explication @Osipi, further highlights the fact that many on the outside of royal life looking in, are more pretentious and overweening than the most stuffiest members of the aristocracy and the royal family.

I do believe that there are likely some members of the royal family who frankly don't feel the need to hold onto being royal just for the sake of being royal. Some of them, especially the younger royals might be perfectly fine with the gradual end of the monarchy, or at least with putting an end to some of the more antiquated rituals and protocol. They may be caught between a rock and a hard place in how they feel about the institution. Respect and dutifulness on the one hand, but also frustration and impatience on the other hand with all the confining strictures and some of the annoyances involving royal courtiers, intrusive media and unending public criticism from all sides.

If the monarchy is pushed to its limits by all this constant criticism and tabloid frenzy, then it will be the royal courtiers and the royal journalists, paps, tabloids, and royal gossip-mongers who may suffer losses in their livelihoods. The public who have tended to take the royals and the so-called 'magic,' for granted will also feel the loss. The royal family will simply move on to other pursuits, many of them most likely with a vast sense of relief and freedom!
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  #307  
Old 06-25-2017, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
t's not easy to write when you're dyslexic like me, but I think I've gotten better in the past year
Going off topic, but I would had no idea that you were dyslexic ROYAL NORWAY. IMO you express yourself very well in English.
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  #308  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post

2."Harry did not want to leave the army. He had to make that choice because he was prevented by his royal status in being able to make it a viable career."

It wasn't his royal status at all that dictated what he could and could not do in the Army as far as making it a viable concern. It was the Army itself that makes the decisions and the rules and like any other soldier, Harry had to either fall in line with their modus operandi or leave the Army. From what I understand, Harry did his stint in active service in Afghanistan and the Army decided that a desk job would be next in order to advance up the ranks. Harry chose to not continue in this vein. His royal status had absolutely nothing to do with it.
I generally agree with you but here I don't entirely. Yes, it was the Army's decision to put Harry in a desk job- but it was because he was the grandson of the Queen. I believe the Army decided it was too hazardous to both Harry AND the men he was serving with to send him back again to the combat zone. That would have been an option for non-royal helicopter pilots- neither Isis, the Taliban or the gutter press would have targeted a random pilot for capture or a scoop.
He may have had to have a desk job of sorts eventually but not while he was still in his 20s. And I don't see him being that good at event planning which is what I believe the job was.
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  #309  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Do anyone think Prince Harry, who loves and respects his family, would undermine the roles of his grandmother, father and brother?
No, not on purpose. But he needs better PR.
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  #310  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post

What has he done to deserve this kind of treatment?

What has he done? He's still in a relationship with Meghan and not giving the press anything much to see or write about.
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  #311  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
No, not on purpose. But he needs better PR.
I think he have a good PR team. He praised the work of the monarchy and he has mentioned his past struggles to deal with his mother's passing. He has a new sense of purpose and I think Harry is doing very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
What has he done? He's still in a relationship with Meghan and not giving the press anything much to see or write about.
O-H Anglophile, that's a big part of it. Also, as I mentioned before, there's a big tug-a-war going on between the younger royals and the media. The media want more from the royals and the royals want a good and healthy balance between royal life and private life.

Harry, William and Catherine are the new faces of the monarchy and it's down to them to shape the monarchy's future. The media have a big problem with the way the Cambridge's and Harry want to take the monarchy. The media want the younger royals to sacrifice their private life for 24/7 duties without complaint. The younger royals want different.
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  #312  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:23 AM
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Y'know, you make some really good points and so does Maia and the more we've discussed, the more I cannot just bluntly say that Harry's royal status did not affect his service. It was a part of it all along.

The Army did have grave concerns not only for Harry being a prime target but also had in mind the safety of those serving close to him. Still, the fact remains that the Army calls the shots. With Harry's service and time in Afghanistan, it was decided by the Army that the next move most logically would be a desk job to advance his rank. This, I believe, is the standard practice for a lot of officers that wish to make the Army their career and advance in ranks. Not many military soldiers spend years in active combat duty but learn behind the scenes at desk jobs to attain the ranks where they are the generals that will eventually lead into battle and command troops. A lot of different factors were at play here. Harry made a personal decision to leave military service. It was his choice. I am in no way that familiar with how the military works but have gleaned this sense of information from what I've read. I'm, of course, open for corrections.

@Dman. I actually haven't really witnessed people on here using Harry's words against him (for the most part) but rather seeing how the repercussions from his words have started up a right royal row. Different people interpret words different ways and the media is quite renowned for this. I don't think there's anyone that doubts that Harry's intentions were anything else but honorable but often times words just plain come out wrong no matter what the intention is. Kind of reminds me of Philip and his "gaffes". It was purely an incident where it was "open mouth, insert foot". The lesson here to be learned is to choose statements wisely that cannot be misinterpreted.
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  #313  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:43 AM
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You know, I'm not sure people in public positions can ever say things anymore that can't be snipped and made into a gratuitous headline to garner clicks. From what I've read it seems for the most part Harry was answering questions and gave thoughtful answers, but parts of answers are being used by the press provoking responses to those headlines.
Awhile ago, William gave an interview where he said he struggled with his role, but in time grew to accept it and was working to forge his own path within those confines. That is pretty much what Harry said as well, except in Harry's place the role is even less defined. There are an awful lot of restrictions on acceptable careers or entrepreneurial endeavors if you are a royal close to the throne. And even Zara and Peter are criticized some. There was whining and criticism of Edward's endeavors (some justified like the William at St Andrew story) but he did some really good documentaries. And Sophie should have been more careful in what she said to strangers but she was flat out set up and had to close her business.
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  #314  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:43 AM
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Perhaps everyone should allow Harry to clear the air and word things differently, so everyone can calm down.
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  #315  
Old 06-25-2017, 11:46 AM
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General News for Prince Harry, Part 1: December 2016 -

Harry came back from Afghanistan in 2013 . He didn't leave the Army until Spring 2015. 2014 was spent planning Invictus London and then he had a month attached to the Australian military in 2015 right before he left. He also had his South Pole Trek. If he was Capt Henry Smith would the British Army be so accommodating to allow Capt Smith to plan his pet project or be sent to Australia for a month? So his royal status had good and bad qualities when he was in the military.
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  #316  
Old 06-25-2017, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Perhaps everyone should allow Harry to clear the air and word things differently, so everyone can calm down.
I don't foresee Harry "clearing the air" about anything. He'll just keep calm and carry on. The more he says now about things already said, the more the words will be twisted and more different meanings put onto things.

I've also noticed that there hasn't been a peep issued from any other royals about it or their PR teams or Buck House.
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  #317  
Old 06-25-2017, 12:11 PM
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An important point we can't lose sight of is that, if Harry really "wanted out", there would be only two practical ways for him to do so:

1) He could convert to Roman Catholicism,

or

2) He could marry without the Queen's consent.

Other than that, Harry cannot unilaterally renounce his place in the line of succession to the crown. Even if he wanted to renounce his rights, a special act of Parliament would be necessary to give legal effect to his renunciation. Even worse than that, since any law changing the line of succession also affects the succession to the crowns of the other Commonwealth realms, Harry's renunciation probably would have to go through the same process that was necessary for the Succession to the Crown Act 2013, i.e., it would potentially require separate legislation also in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc. In other words, hardly a practical proposition.

Besides, in any case, even if Harry and his future descendants lost their succession rights, Harry would still be an HRH, unless the Queen also stripped him of that title, which, I assume, would require separate letters patent.

The point I'm trying to make is that "wanting out" was not a decision that was within Harry's power to make (other than by the aforementioned options that I listed above). It is not like then that he could get out, and didn't do it because his sense of duty compelled him to stay as he claims. Being a prince is not a choice, as nobody chooses to be born in the families they are born and royalty is essentially a hereditary conditon brought by an accident of birth.
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  #318  
Old 06-25-2017, 12:25 PM
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The "wanting out" was just the painful feelings he was struggling with due to his mother's tragic passing. This has been explained for both William and Harry. The reluctance and procrastination to embrace their royal destinies were due to their past problems. No disrespect to the institution they were born into.
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  #319  
Old 06-25-2017, 12:27 PM
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You have said it well, Mbruno. IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
"The monarchy cannot go on as it has done under the Queen" may be interpreted as disrespectful to his grandmother. That is why I asked what he meant exactly by that.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Furthermore, when he says that "no royal wants to be King or Queen", "no royal" here obviously includes his brother and father and, by saying that, he is undermining their position.
Exactly. This is the most obvious imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The problem, you see, is that the "bits that the tabloids chose to publish" are pretty clear literal quotes (as is BTW "I wanted out"). It is not a matter of the press twisting Harry's words, but, on the contrary, of some posters on the forum trying to find hidden meanings or convoluted interpretations to exonerate Harry.
Excellent point!

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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The truth is that Harry, like Andrew or Margaret before him, is a not a particularly bright person. On top of that, he has many issues and is clearly not very emotionally stable. The best advice to him, in the interest of the institution he represents, is to keep his mouth shut.
Ouch! (OT: It's why I sincerely doubt Meghan Markel will opt to marry him. He's not a good bet - not yet).
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  #320  
Old 06-25-2017, 12:27 PM
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I don't think Harry meant 'opt out' in that formal fashion. We don't know exactly when he wanted to opt out. It could have been after he left the army and felt directionless and near to a nervous breakdown, or, less probably,it could have been much earlier in his early twenties when he was devastated at not being able to serve in Iraq with his men, or even earlier than that.

I simply took his statement to mean that he felt if he got away, perhaps to Africa, he could find something else in his life, some other way to be of use. Perhaps a life in Africa and without royal duties and without necessarily using his title, which he wouldnt have to do in those circumstances, it's not compulsory. Being born Royal doesn't mean being born a slave. You can ultimately just stop and walk away, after much thought, of course.

In the end though, he made the decision that he wished to remain within the family as a Royal, and support his grandmother as much as he possibly could, which I am sure he will do for his father and his brother, in their turn.

By the way, there's been much talk about Harry not being bright or emotionally stable. You don't learn to fly Apache helicopters and reach commander level while doing so without some form of intelligence, and your senior officers would soon pick up any signs of emotional instability.

I think he and Meghan will be engaged, probably later this year.
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