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  #161  
Old 09-22-2010, 05:26 PM
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It is the fact that he has spent 5 years doing training rather than that he did some training and some service. No one would have objected had he left the military, as intended in 2008 or if he had stayed in the army and done some form of service there - even if it had been simply desk work or posting to Germany realising that he is too precious to be risked in a war zone - despite the other sons and grandsons of HM subjects being risked in such a place and dying for the country.

It is the fact that he has just continued training and not actually serving for half a decade so far. It is the length of the training time and the fact that others are dying but he can't be sent into danger that is upsetting people - and rightly so in my opinion.

I see no reason why he and Harry shouldn't be doing a full tour of duty in Afghanistan while they are in the service. There is no where in the world safe from terrorism and they will always be targets so why not send them to combat, if that is what they are trained to do.
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  #162  
Old 09-22-2010, 05:53 PM
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Bertie, I agree. Prince Henry was sent to Afghanistan and was enjoying actually working (or so I read) and was yanked out of the combat zone. I'll bet that wasn't what he expected and might have even been embarrassing for him.

You are positively correct on PW's excessive training. I'm sure the majority of British subjects would never mind footing the bill for all that training if he's going to do something with it. Had he not already been to regular university?
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  #163  
Old 09-22-2010, 06:46 PM
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In Britain the vast majority of candidates who enter Sandhurst have already completed degrees elsewhere, unlike Harry who hadn't. Sandhurst isn't like the WestPoint that also gives them a degree.
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  #164  
Old 09-23-2010, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
It is the fact that he has spent 5 years doing training rather than that he did some training and some service. No one would have objected had he left the military, as intended in 2008 or if he had stayed in the army and done some form of service there - even if it had been simply desk work or posting to Germany realising that he is too precious to be risked in a war zone - despite the other sons and grandsons of HM subjects being risked in such a place and dying for the country.
William did an initial period of training until 2008, and then decided to join the SAR. Clearly the training required for the SAR is specialist in nature and I am sure everybody who joins the SAR is trained specifically for the task.

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No one would have objected had he left the military, as intended in 2008 or if he had stayed in the army and done some form of service there
Odd as it may appear, but I do not see any objections (outside from a select few on TRF) either in the mainstream UK press or amongst the UK public in general as to the specifics of the military careers of William and Harry.

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I see no reason why he and Harry shouldn't be doing a full tour of duty in Afghanistan while they are in the service. There is no where in the world safe from terrorism and they will always be targets so why not send them to combat, if that is what they are trained to do.
I think this is an issue that was discussed quite extensively when Harry returned from Afghanistan. IMO, there is little doubt that capturing, killing or even injuring a senior member of the BRF on the ground in Afghanistan would lead be a siginificant coup for the Taliban and one they would certainly attempt. This will invariably put other members of the armed forces serving alongside the princes under undue risk, and that is one that the armed forces commanders are unwilling to take. I think Harry has been quite clear in his desire to return to Afghanisatan and serve alongside his fellow troops.
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  #165  
Old 09-23-2010, 09:48 AM
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... sorry but I dont believe that there will be much substance to William, let alone Kate.
You don't think William has much substance? What evidence do you have that supports that? Diana raised those boys to care for those that are not as fortunate, and she made sure they were exposed to the suffering of others so they would have an understanding of what their position is in Society, which is to support and help those less fortunate. Both William and Harry have done admirable work in the charities their mother supported as well as taken on their own charitable organizations.

As taken from their website:

As Patrons of their Foundation, Prince William and Prince Harry want to make a difference in three particular areas:
1) Young People - particularly those of their own age and younger who are disadvantaged or in need of guidance and support at a crucial time in their lives;
2) Environment - particularly to build on the growing awareness of the need to find better, more sustainable, models to balance development and the conservation of resources;

3) Armed Forces
- for the welfare of those who serve their country in the Armed Forces. Particularly looking after those who return broken in body or mind - or not at all - and their families.
Through their Foundation, The Princes aim to help fund these causes.
The Future
In January 2010 Prince William said: “We are incredibly lucky, Harry and I. We know that. But both our father and our mother instilled in us, from the word go, that with these great privileges goes an absolute responsibility to give back”, and Prince Harry said: “We are both massively excited at the prospect of being able to help in whatever way we can, where we can. As Prince William said, if we can use our position to do this, we are ready to.”

That doesn't appear to me to be two men without substance. IMO of course.
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  #166  
Old 09-23-2010, 05:18 PM
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And this is exactly what royals have been doing for over 100 years at least - helping those less fortunate. They are not breaking new ground or doing anything special, for royals.

This is not proof of having substance as it is so what they should be doing and nothing more. I haven't read or heard of anything that they have done that is special or out of the ordinary. What they have done is raised awareness by doing things that they enjoy - when they do it by getting their hands dirty I might thing they actually are doing subtantial but in the meantime they simply come across as two extremely spoilt men who think - 'I want to do this but how can I do it and not get criticise for it? I know. I will link it to some good cause and then people will think it is ok'.
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  #167  
Old 09-23-2010, 06:09 PM
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  #168  
Old 09-23-2010, 06:28 PM
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They are not breaking new ground or doing anything special, for royals.
.
So Bertie, what, in your opinion, would be groundbreaking?
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  #169  
Old 09-23-2010, 08:47 PM
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And you know this how?


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military training that he has mainly used to escape duty and the attention of the public.
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  #170  
Old 09-23-2010, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
And this is exactly what royals have been doing for over 100 years at least - helping those less fortunate. They are not breaking new ground or doing anything special, for royals.

This is not proof of having substance as it is so what they should be doing and nothing more. I haven't read or heard of anything that they have done that is special or out of the ordinary. What they have done is raised awareness by doing things that they enjoy - when they do it by getting their hands dirty I might thing they actually are doing subtantial but in the meantime they simply come across as two extremely spoilt men who think - 'I want to do this but how can I do it and not get criticise for it? I know. I will link it to some good cause and then people will think it is ok'.
I really don't understand what exactly you expect of them? Charles digs in the dirt and talks to plants. Does that mean he has more substance?

William slept in a sleeping bag on a piece of cardboard for a night with the homeless. His comments about the experience? "I hope that by deepening my understanding of the issue, I can help do my bit to help the most vulnerable on our streets." Would you say that is substance? Or would the fact he slept on a piece of cardboard instead of in a dumpster with cockroaches, rats and smelly rubbish make him nothing more than a spoiled Royal brat in your opinion?

Yes, Royals have been doing charitable work for generations. However, there is showing up in expensive clothing and giving a speech, and then there is getting really involved and seeking to truly understand. Diana made sure they understood what suffering was and what it means to truly involve yourself.

I think if you spent a few moments researching what these two young men have done rather than dismissing them as "extremely spolied" or basing your opinions on gossip mags, you would have a better idea of what substance they DO have.
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  #171  
Old 09-24-2010, 02:02 AM
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Agree texankitcat - both of these young men are men of substance.

PH has Sentebale which he has faithfully supported. A few years ago, he showed such compassion for a baby girl who had been raped that he has taken on the responsibility for personally paying for her education. And I have seen pictures of him showing such compassion and respect to badly injured servicemen.

And no one forced PW to sleep outside with the homeless. He did it out of compassion. It takes a man of character to leave his warm home and spend a long, miserable, cold night to show that he cared and to try to make a difference.

PW is now doing Search and Rescue - helping to save lives, which probably isn't that easy a job. It's all hours, all kinds of weather and it's unlikely every story will have a happy ending. And PH is learning how to fly (is the Apache?) because that's the only way he will be allowed to return to Afghanistan and he seems determined to return. That doesn't sound like two spoiled young men who are only thinking about themselves.
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  #172  
Old 09-24-2010, 09:20 AM
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Agree texankitcat - both of these young men are men of substance.

PH has Sentebale which he has faithfully supported. A few years ago, he showed such compassion for a baby girl who had been raped that he has taken on the responsibility for personally paying for her education. And I have seen pictures of him showing such compassion and respect to badly injured servicemen.

And no one forced PW to sleep outside with the homeless. He did it out of compassion. It takes a man of character to leave his warm home and spend a long, miserable, cold night to show that he cared and to try to make a difference.

PW is now doing Search and Rescue - helping to save lives, which probably isn't that easy a job. It's all hours, all kinds of weather and it's unlikely every story will have a happy ending. And PH is learning how to fly (is the Apache?) because that's the only way he will be allowed to return to Afghanistan and he seems determined to return. That doesn't sound like two spoiled young men who are only thinking about themselves.
Thank you Kakianne. It's a shame that others are so quick to jump on the royal bash wagon without giving a fair assessment based on facts. You make an excellent arguement with your point about their service. Since they are both directly in line to the throne, they could have easily bypassed dangerous assignments. I am sure the Queen prefers that they had. They WANT to be where they are needed and are most useful. They could serve their military careers getting cushy, safe assignments. Instead they are completely involved and committed, working alongside their comrades rather than above them. I find that admirable, and far removed from the picture of spoiled royalty.
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  #173  
Old 09-24-2010, 11:11 AM
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And you know this how?
If William was keen on royal duties, he wouldnt do such detailed military training over many years (much longer than needed and too focused for his future job) that in the end will never serve any purpose.
Its handy for him to get away from it all and be out of the media spotlight as much as possible. If he wanted to work as a royal even though he is not heir to the throne, he could. He does little and what he does seems forced upon him because he cant hide behind the military all the time, especially as the public has to foot the bill for his pointless search and rescue training.

Sorry Zonk, please move to the respective thread
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  #174  
Old 09-24-2010, 06:14 PM
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I think that it's good that the future Head of State has so much training in the Armed Forces. We'll have to agree to differ.


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If William was keen on royal duties, he wouldnt do such detailed military training over many years (much longer than needed and too focused for his future job) that in the end will never serve any purpose.
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  #175  
Old 09-24-2010, 06:18 PM
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Hear, hear! The Wales brothers were criticized for falling drunk out of nightclubs. Fair enough. Now they're both actively serving their countries, and they're still being raked over the coals for not doing enough. I say let these young men do "normal" work and some royal duties until their father ascends the throne.


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Thank you Kakianne. It's a shame that others are so quick to jump on the royal bash wagon without giving a fair assessment based on facts. I find that admirable, and far removed from the picture of spoiled royalty.
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  #176  
Old 09-24-2010, 08:02 PM
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I think that it's good that the future Head of State has so much training in the Armed Forces. We'll have to agree to differ.
Well maibe if we where living in the XVII Century i will agree. Now at this time is a waste of money. He will never go to war, he should be working in the bank of England for example, specially in this time the head of state must be aware of the economic problems of the country, or in some kind of international organitation, learning about, Law, politics, even languages, THAT is a modern king.I always thoght William would be like JFK but in royalty, it was a mistake for my part. Even Charles shows that he cares a bit. And i donīt believe the story noo William is joung hi is not the heir of the throne... he had the world at his feet..
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  #177  
Old 09-24-2010, 08:38 PM
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Going to war isn't the point. As Head of the Armed Forces, it's good that he knows something about each of the branches.

We don't know what Prince William will do in the future. For now, I think that he's doing the right thing. Being a "modern king" in William's context IMO being able to reach out to people, know something about their lives, and want to serve them. To me, he is showing that in the work that he does both in terms of his current job and the charitable and official appearances that he makes.

He's still the heir to the heir to the throne. I think that there were people--not meaning you, laura24, who wanted him to step into his mother's place as soon as he turned 18 and/or take on the duties of the heir to the throne. That's not his position.

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Well maibe if we where living in the XVII Century i will agree. Now at this time is a waste of money. He will never go to war,t..
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  #178  
Old 09-25-2010, 02:57 AM
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Well maibe if we where living in the XVII Century i will agree. Now at this time is a waste of money. He will never go to war, he should be working in the bank of England for example, specially in this time the head of state must be aware of the economic problems of the country, or in some kind of international organitation, learning about, Law, politics, even languages, THAT is a modern king.I always thoght William would be like JFK but in royalty, it was a mistake for my part. Even Charles shows that he cares a bit. And i donīt believe the story noo William is joung hi is not the heir of the throne... he had the world at his feet..
Just because he's never going to war doesn't mean he shouldn't understand what every soldier will go through when he/she goes to the front line.
If we had another war and William was our King, i'd be proud to have him as the head of our armed forces because he knows what his soldiers have to go through.

He's worked in a bank before, before the recession, and he might work in one after his military training. But at the moment with the stories about the "Queen crying poverty" if William was working in the financial section it would cause more havoc.

William has time to work for the UN, EU or learn about Law or Politics if he wants. But to be frank you don't need those to be a good King, Elizabeth doesn't have anything like that, Charles doesn't have any kind of degree or traning from a foreign organisation.

He HAS the world at his feet, he can do what he likes to help his life as a royal if he wanted. But if his interest lies in flying helicopters then why can't he continue doing that?
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  #179  
Old 09-25-2010, 04:05 AM
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Just because he's never going to war doesn't mean he shouldn't understand what every soldier will go through when he/she goes to the front line.
If we had another war and William was our King, i'd be proud to have him as the head of our armed forces because he knows what his soldiers have to go through.

He's worked in a bank before, before the recession, and he might work in one after his military training. But at the moment with the stories about the "Queen crying poverty" if William was working in the financial section it would cause more havoc.

William has time to work for the UN, EU or learn about Law or Politics if he wants. But to be frank you don't need those to be a good King, Elizabeth doesn't have anything like that, Charles doesn't have any kind of degree or traning from a foreign organisation.

He HAS the world at his feet, he can do what he likes to help his life as a royal if he wanted. But if his interest lies in flying helicopters then why can't he continue doing that?
I donīt live in Britain, but happends that with the economy situation, with all the cuts, people having to pay more taxes, it is very stupid to be 4 or 5 years "training" with the peoples money.
He is 28, he is not the heir to throne, but he is a prince, what is he witing?? to be 40?

When did he work in a bank? he was going to but as far as i now he never whent.

Both CHarles and Elisabeth lived in another time, when Royals had to nothing except smile and do things for others. We live in another time, royals had to do more than fly helicopters. He is young and he is not at the same time, Maibe when he tries to do something different its to late, people doasenīt care anymore.
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  #180  
Old 09-25-2010, 04:20 AM
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I donīt live in Britain, but happends that with the economy situation, with all the cuts, people having to pay more taxes, it is very stupid to be 4 or 5 years "training" with the peoples money.
He is 28, he is not the heir to throne, but he is a prince, what is he witing?? to be 40?

When did he work in a bank? he was going to but as far as i now he never whent.

Both CHarles and Elisabeth lived in another time, when Royals had to nothing except smile and do things for others. We live in another time, royals had to do more than fly helicopters. He is young and he is not at the same time, Maibe when he tries to do something different its to late, people doasenīt care anymore.
I have no idea what he is waiting for, but why does he have to rush into something, why does he have to marry now, have children in the next few years? Why can't he live his life just a little longer?

I remember seeing pictures and hearing he was working in a bank, i'll try and find the information.

Both Elizabeth and Charles, are still alive. Just because they lived in another time doesn't mean you change what is needed to be a good monarch. Neither Elizabeth nor Charles has training in law, politics or at such an organisation as the EU or UN and Elizabeth has been the finest monarch for the UK and the commonwealth I have ever seen. Charles will follow in his mothers footsteps whenever that is. William will do the same. He will be told what he needs to know, by his father, his grandmother and his advisers. Why should he get extra degree's in politics and law, why should be travel to the UN or EU. Might look good for him, but I see no point in it.

Whatever William does, he will be critisized for wasting taxpayers money.
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