Duties, Roles and Royal Training of the Princes

[Royal Fan]

Colonel in Cheif actually

 

[Russophile]

Colonel in Cheif actually

Whoops! My bad! Thinking like an American again.
HRH TPR has her own regiment. I think it would do William and Harry good to have theirs and take personal care of them.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Whoops! My bad! Thinking like an American again.
HRH TPR has her own regiment. I think it would do William and Harry good to have theirs and take personal care of them.

These are honoury positions of course and require as little or as much attention as the person chooses to give them, although most British royals are very good.

Some of the British regiments have foreign royals as their honoury colonel-in-chief as well.

One day both William and Harry will have these positions but tradition dictates that that won't happen while they are actually serving officers. Afterall the rank is 'colonel' and they are currently Lts so until they have left the military they can't concurrently hold the effective rank of Lt and the honoury rank of 'colonel' as there would even be a question of what position they use when in a mess etc - so until they leave the military honourary colonels-in-chief will have to be for other members of the family.

 

[Roslyn]

FWIW, Prince Charles was made Honorary Colonel in Chief of the Royal Regiment of Wales in 1969, and Colonel of the Welsh Guards in 1975 at which time he was a junior naval officer. The rest of his Honorary military appointments weren't made till he had left the navy in 1976 though.

 

[MARG]

I think we all need to remember that Prince Charles was and is the heir to the throne, so it is impossible to compare the public engagements that Charles carried out with those of either William or Harry at the same age.

 

[Zonk]

Good point MARG.

What the BRF is facing now is the same thing that they faced during the time of Queen Victoria. Both the Queen Victoria, the heir (Edward VII) and the heir heirs (George V) are a alive, functioning and capable of handling duties.

In the past two generations you only had to worry about the generations of the Queen and the heir (Edward VII and George V), George V and Edward VIII/George VI and then George VI/Elizabeth II. The heirs of the 2nd generations were too young to take on public duties.

So its hard to compare Charles with William and Charles with Elizabeth IMO.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Roslyn]

What you say makes perfect sense, Zonk.

I don't draw a clear line between the heir and the heir's heir though. I see William as part of a continuum. Elizabeth is monarch now and Charles will be one day and then William will have his turn. And I also see William as only being one car accident or illness or sudden heart attack away from being heir; Charles could wake up tomorrow as King.

William is a grown man now, not a child, and in my opinion he should be ready to step into his father's shoes as heir tomorrow if needs be rather than his "heir" training being viewed as something that he has plenty of time to acquire because his grandmother is healthy and his great-grandmother lived to be over 100. Life's not that certain. For the same reason I think Harry should have a bit more "heir" training.

Just my opinion though.

 

[Iluvbertie]

What you say makes perfect sense, Zonk.

I don't draw a clear line between the heir and the heir's heir though. I see William as part of a continuum. Elizabeth is monarch now and Charles will be one day and then William will have his turn. And I also see William as only being one car accident or illness or sudden heart attack away from being heir; Charles could wake up tomorrow as King.

William is a grown man now, not a child, and in my opinion he should be ready to step into his father's shoes as heir tomorrow if needs be rather than his "heir" training being viewed as something that he has plenty of time to acquire because his grandmother is healthy and his great-grandmother lived to be over 100. Life's not that certain. For the same reason I think Harry should have a bit more "heir" training.

Just my opinion though.

What do you think this 'heir' training should be?

Let's see - Charles finished school, went to uni, served in the military, started full time duties having been instructed in constitutional matters while at school and uni at the insistence of the Queen.

William finished school, went to uni, is serving in the military and has been instructed in constitutional matters while at school at the insistence of the Queen.

So for William to complete his 'heir' training up to the standard of his father he has to do full time royal duties and we know that that will happen but because he is two heart-beats away from the throne he has a bit more time than his father who was only one heart beat away.

Andrew finished school and went into the military (I am using Andrew because until he was 22 he was 2nd in line) where he served for many years before beginning full time royal duties.

Harry finished school and is currently in the military where I expect him to serve for another 20 years or so before retiring and becoming a full time working royal like his uncle. Add to that Harry has, at closest been 3rd from the throne unlike his uncle who was born 2nd in line.

It seems to me that William and Harry have had the same training and preparation as Charles and Andrew had in the same positions so they are being equally well trained as the generation before them, and they were trained by the Queen.

 

[Roslyn]

I would like to have seen them doing more on the job training of the sort you mentioned in Post 84 above. I would also have liked to see William do more formal training at university level in subjects such as political science.

 

[MARG]

Actually I don't see the point. From the moment of birth their lives have been so highly publicised and politicised that they should both qualify for a masters in polysci!

There's nothing like learning at the coal-face or at the bosom! And William's been studying for how long?

I think both William and Harry consider their time in the Military as time off for "good behavior" knowing full well that they will, inevitably, be recalled to "Active Service"!

They are therefore making hay while the sun shines. Enjoying it all while it lasts.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I would like to have seen them doing more on the job training of the sort you mentioned in Post 84 above. I would also have liked to see William do more formal training at university level in subjects such as political science.

My concern with studying at university in subjects like political science is that they will have NO political power and that will only educate them about stuff that they can't do.

William's political role is to advise, warn and be consulted along with sign the legislation but he has no say or power which is why constitutional understanding is important but political science isn't.

I too would like to see them doing more full-timen royal duties in time - William in about 5 or so years and Harry in about 20 years. I think they should be spending less 'free-time' on holidays and more of that time doing royal duties and I would also like them to be spending their holidays in Britian rather than thumbing their wealth down the throats of ordinary British citizens seeing as they are now in the longest recession of the Queen's reign.

 

[Roslyn]

Though William won't have any political power, I think that if he is to advise and warn, he should understand enough about the subject to be able to give advice and warnings. I would like to see him study not just political science, but also history and any other relevant subject. Such studies would broaden his mind and expose him to a range of ideas, which is good for anyone IMO.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Though William won't have any political power, I think that if he is to advise and warn, he should understand enough about the subject to be able to give advice and warnings. I would like to see him study not just political science, but also history and any other relevant subject. Such studies would broaden his mind and expose him to a range of ideas, which is good for anyone IMO.

Not studying them at uni doesn't mean he hasn't studied them in his private instructional sessions with the experts at Windsor and with his grandmother who arranged those sessions while he was at school.

I personally think that the Queen knows what her heirs need to know and will have ensured that they have had that education but not necessarily in the school or uni setting but rather personalised to the needs of the British monarch and their unique position. In other words he has had one on one tuition for his needs rather than a generic course that would have a lot of irrelevant material for the position he will one day fulfil.

 

[Roslyn]

The Queen knows what her heirs need to know to do the job the way she has done it for so long. She has done the job well, but I just feel that there might be more than one way of doing it, and that it doesn't hurt to have input from different sources, and an external education, which might give him a different perspective which could be useful.

IMO to say that William only needs to know what HM considers he needs to know to do the job she's doing is like saying that a higher education is wasted on women who give up work and become full time mothers as all they need to know is what their mothers knew about looking after a home and children.

I believe that the acquisition of knowledge for its own sake is a good thing, and that giving William a broad education is as valid as giving mothers a broad education. It might not be relevant to the performance of William's ultimate public role, but that doesn't mean it's not relevant to his private self.

But for all I know William might have a wide range of intellectual interests and be an avid reader on a range of topics.

 

[Lumutqueen]

I would like to have seen them doing more on the job training of the sort you mentioned in Post 84 above. I would also have liked to see William do more formal training at university level in subjects such as political science.

Why may I ask? What will going back to univerisity to do a another degree accomplish?

Though William won't have any political power, I think that if he is to advise and warn, he should understand enough about the subject to be able to give advice and warnings. I would like to see him study not just political science, but also history and any other relevant subject. Such studies would broaden his mind and expose him to a range of ideas, which is good for anyone IMO.

I think he will understand how to do the job he was born to do when it comes to that day, i don't think The Queen or Prince Charles will let him sit on the throne unprepared.

I'm sure William and Harry would have studied History at Eton, enough to cover what he needs. He obviously doesn't particularly like to subject if he didn't take it at University.

The Queen knows what her heirs need to know to do the job the way she has done it for so long. She has done the job well, but I just feel that there might be more than one way of doing it, and that it doesn't hurt to have input from different sources, and an external education, which might give him a different perspective which could be useful.

I'm sorry but "more than one way of doing it" our country has run pretty smoothly on they way things have been done the past so many hundred years. More than one way to be a king?

Again input from different sources?
He can only recieve the information he needs to be king from a very few people.

External education? I believe he has recieved that. At Eton and at St Andrews.

 

[Roslyn]

Why may I ask? What will going back to univerisity to do a another degree accomplish?

Broaden his knowledge base and analytical powers and give him different points of view. He may not need this to be king in the mould of Elizabeth, but I still think it would benefit him. But I don't seem him taking on another degree course at this stage.

I'm sure William and Harry would have studied History at Eton, enough to cover what he needs. He obviously doesn't particularly like to subject if he didn't take it at University.

There are lots subjects I would have liked to study at university but couldn't as part of the course I did take. Perhaps William also has other interests.

I'm sorry but "more than one way of doing it" our country has run pretty smoothly on they way things have been done the past so many hundred years. More than one way to be a king?

Yes, especially taking into account the changes that have taken place in society since 1952. We know Charles has some different views about how certain things should be done; he would like to be defender of faith rather than the faith. He has already broken tradition by marrying a divorced woman who has a husband living, and that has had consequences in relation to the way the RF is viewed and, I understand, fed republican sentiment in some quarters. We are reading about the size of the working royal family being reduced. The day to day operation of the RF has been modernised significantly during HM's reign; footmen no longer run along corridors hand-delivering messages between the different family members' offices. We no longer see royal servants wearing powdered wigs. HM had a room set up for Moslem staff members to pray. She has changed with the times to some extent during her reign but she is a conservative and religious woman and her reign has been stamped with her personality and sense of duty and views about how things should be done.

Each incumbent will bring his or her own personality and opinions into the role. IMO the more ideas William is exposed to about about a wide range of subjects, the more up to date and relevant he will be, and better able to relate to and understand the British people. We read that the RF could not comprehend the reaction of the public to Diana's death, which suggests to me that a broader, more objective, external education about constitutional matters might not be a bad thing rather than in-house tutoring from people selected by HM. I think it would have been a good thing if he had obtained some of his education in another country, perhaps the US.

But these are just my views and everyone is entitled to their own and yours may well be more valid than mine. My original theme was that William should be being made ready to step up the line now because there is no guarantee that he will have 20 or more years to progress through the various stages that seem to have been plotted for him. Then again, I suppose if he were suddenly elevated his training would escalate accordingly.

 

[Iluvbertie]

My original theme was that William should be being made ready to step up the line now because there is no guarantee that he will have 20 or more years to progress through the various stages that seem to have been plotted for him. Then again, I suppose if he were suddenly elevated his training would escalate accordingly.

You have evidence that he isn't 'being made ready to step up the line now' have you?

If so could you please produce it.

Just because we aren't being told everything that he is doing isn't proof that he isn't ready to become King tomorrow if that should happen. I actually do believe that he could step in tomorrow because his father and grandmother have prepared him for that eventuality but at the same time realise that he should be allowed to have as much time away from the full duties as possible - partly because they couldn't as they were/are the direct heir and, in the case of the Queen was the monarch at the age he is now.

 

[Roslyn]

I do not purport to have "evidence" on that point, merely opinions I have formed based on my observations. Though I think that recent incident with the father of the soldier who was killed in Iraq is evidence that he has a bit to learn about how to handle that sort of situation.

If needs be William could, of course, step into the role of monarch tomorrow. There are scores of courtiers and other people available to provide guidance and assistance.

 

[Lighthouse]

Excuse me for intruding but don't the royal houses employ advisers? Or at least have well educated and well informed contacts?

 

[Roslyn]

Approximately 1,200 of them, apparently.
The Royal Household

 

[Opal]

Wow, I had no idea they had so many employees in the Royal household! I've heard some of them also get free room and board. That would be cool to work for the monarchy.

 

[Sereta]

After seeing the thread on the India State visit I would like to see William and Harry participate in a State banquet from time to time. When do you guys think this will start happening?

 

[MARG]

I think it would be highly inappropriate. William and Harry can have their screaming fans, the girlfriends, specualtion about their love lives and potential wives. None, and I repeat none of that has any place at a state banquet.

The Queen is hosting heads of state on behalf of the government. It's all about diplomacy, trade, allies, etc. It is not just a really good nosh up and more importantly, it is not about the princes! On an even more serious note, they might be treated like rock stars by some, but there are more than a few of the international movers and shakers who would be less than impressed sitting next to the 'C' team. What are they going to talk about over dinner? Cocktails?

Leave the lads to their flying, polo and socializing, it is in that sphere that they are generating the next generation (hopefully) of monarchists.

 

[Dani90]

I think you're a bit harsh on them. William has a good knowledge. He has a Scottish Master of Arts and a upper second class honours in geography plus the fact that he has knowledge in other topics such as enviromental. Harry studied geography, biology, mathematics and art history at Eton so I think they could manage to talk to someone without talking about cocktails.

But I agree with you on the fact that neither William or Harry should be on state banquets as the Queen is the hostess as head of state and represent the government. William will have his turn when he's the host

 

[MARG]

But I agree with you on the fact that neither William or Harry should be on state banquets as the Queen is the hostess as head of state and represent the government. William will have his turn when he's the host.

But I agree with you on the fact that neither William or Harry should be on state banquets as the Queen is the hostess as head of state and represent the government. William will have his turn when he's the host.

Well maybe when his father is the host. But definitely no sooner.

 

[Warren]

I'm sorry but "more than one way of doing it" our country has run pretty smoothly on they way things have been done the past so many hundred years. More than one way to be a king?

No, more than one way to learn. Queen Elizabeth (QM) wasn't overly concerned with education while Queen Mary was more astute. As well as taking the young Princess Elizabeth to various exhibitions, she would host regular luncheons where the Princess would meet/listen/converse with/learn from a very wide range of people from all walks of society: politics, law, finance, science, the arts etc. I would imagine that the Queen does the same and it's a sure bet that Charles does. There are also the experts who are brought in, the private tutoring, the private visits and talks... all the things that go into preparing a future monarch that take place well out of the public eye.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I think you're a bit harsh on them. William has a good knowledge. He has a Scottish Master of Arts and a upper second class honours in geography plus the fact that he has knowledge in other topics such as enviromental. Harry studied geography, biology, mathematics and art history at Eton so I think they could manage to talk to someone without talking about cocktails.

But I agree with you on the fact that neither William or Harry should be on state banquets as the Queen is the hostess as head of state and represent the government. William will have his turn when he's the host

Although William shouldn't be hosting state banquets he should be attending when his grandmother sees him as ready and/or available due to other duties just as his father, aunt and uncles attend now.


As 2nd in line I would expect William to be attending state banquets in a few years and most from then on.

 

[Patra]

Who (staff wise) are Prince Williams closest and most powerful advisors besides Her Majesty and Prince Charles? What exactly do they do? (not private secretary or persons merely responsible for schedule/calendars)

 

[Skydragon]

I think you're a bit harsh on them. William has a good knowledge. He has a Scottish Master of Arts and a upper second class honours in geography plus the fact that he has knowledge in other topics such as enviromental. Harry studied geography, biology, mathematics and art history at Eton so I think they could manage to talk to someone without talking about cocktails.

All of which means very little in the real world, I also wouldn't expect them to know how to mix a cocktail, just whether they like it or not. Most people do not sit down and discuss geography, art history, maths or biology at banquets. The most popular discussions seem to be about current affairs, (and that should be where they talk without disclosing an opinion), however, it is not acceptable to talk about religion or politics.

 

[Sereta]

Although William shouldn't be hosting state banquets he should be attending when his grandmother sees him as ready and/or available due to other duties just as his father, aunt and uncles attend now.


As 2nd in line I would expect William to be attending state banquets in a few years and most from then on.

Just to clarify I wasn't asking when he would host in place of the Queen, only attend with the rest of the royals. A few years seems like a reasonable time frame or like you said whenever the Queen deems it appropriate.