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  #101  
Old 03-12-2006, 10:21 PM
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I've spent many years living in both Britain and America and in my opinion "real Britain" is somewhere between the two views being argued here.

I think Wills will be criticized regardless of who he marries: by leftists if he marries the "typical princess" and by traditionalists if he marries someone atypical. It is up to him to be able to make the monarchy relevant and approachable to all the British people, and truly, this will be his biggest challenge throughout his reign.

Because of this, I feel that William's aversion of the paparazzi/press is going to harm his wife no matter who (or what) she is because people feel disconnected from him already. Of all the reasons he has for waiting a few years to marry , I think this is the most significant. He can't be a support to his wife until he is comfortable in his role, and given that his wife will get a lot of criticism no matter who she is, he should take time to earn people's respect and love, not just for being a Prince of Wales, but for being who he is (ie, show that he is being considerate of all the British even if he cannot please them all.) I think if he can accomplish this, then his wife will have a much easier time, regardless of race and creed.

Just my two cents!
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  #102  
Old 03-12-2006, 10:31 PM
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Hello, everyone

I've been lurking for a while but after reading your conversations I decided to post a comment. I understant that fot some Britons the forced intergration is very hard to take and that should be expected however, some people need to be reminded of the fact that a lot of the ethnic minorities were invited to come to Britain in the sixties and that invitation hasn't been officially rescinded. On the other hand it should also be acknowledged that a lot of ethinc minorities are racist as well. I'm a Nigerian living in Britain and I have observed racism from both sides. A lot of ethnic minorities would never accept a white person marrying into their family that includes some members of my extended family so I think its a bit hypocritical for it to be wrong for a white person not wanting another ethnicity in the family while its ok for a minority. With regard to nationalism I think a lot of people mistake protecting and having pride in one's nationality with having to reject every thing else.

As for William and Harry I think they'll marry white girls because most of the people in their cirlce are caucasian and they will marry within that circle. Thats ok and I'm not dismayed by it because ultimately they will have to live with their spouses and they need people who they are compatible with not some PC bride to assuage the minorities with because that is a cruel and unfair thing to ask of them.

That's just my opinion I hope I didn't offend anyone.:)
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  #103  
Old 03-12-2006, 10:50 PM
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by babybird
If Harry or Will happened to fall in love with someone of a different race you would find it insulting, Why? I understand that no one wants to be forced to intergrate with people of different races but if two people choose to be together why would that offend you or anyone else?

I, myself am the product of an interacial marriage(mom black/dad white). So I know how hateful people can be. I have seen up close and personal, when I go out with my dad and when I have heard the comments people make when my parents go out together and people make nasty comments.
why, if two people are choosing to be together would strangers take it so personally?


Don't get me wrong I also doubt that Will or Harry will date outside of their race, but I think it is sad that if they did people would be personally offended and see it as an betrayal. When it is really just their own personal choice.

Pleae help me understand why you would be personally insulted? I think it would help me to understand peoples reaction to my family.

Please dont see this as an attack on you. I respect your opinions, even if I dont agree with all of them. I think a civilized discussion on race is a good thing.

I found this question very interesting. As in most do on this board, I don't think that they would go outside of their raced. Not because, they are racist or anything. but, because, they hang & date withing a small group( on the world scale). But, because they are familar with their group. But, from what I have read. they do have attractions outside of their own race. William' cruse on Beyonce & Charles favorite singing group when he was young was a Black Girl group. & If true, did he not invite these women to a brithday party as his dates once( I think I saw this on a speical or something)

However, I would think that they would stick to as close as possible their own race just to keep the massive( who do have their own Race problems) at bay & off of their backs. From what I know of British law when it comes to marriage. Only Catholics can't apply for the job of wife. There is nothing in the law about Asian, Black, Hispanic, Etc.....

Love is Love & that should be then be all to end all of it. But, this is the royals & they know best RIGHT just look at the wonderful jobs of all the great marraiges througout hundreds of years. But, they were all white right. Wouldn't you just love to have been 1 of Henry's 8th wives. :p

I could go on but this post is long enough. Check you PM for more info


William & Harry don't have race issues. But trust & comfort issues.
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  #104  
Old 03-12-2006, 10:54 PM
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Let's try and avoid this becoming a discussion about racism in general, please. Many British people may not like the idea of a non-white person marrying into the royal family, but many probably don't care one way or the other and some are likely to see it as a positive step. There have been non-Europeans marrying into other royal families and it didn't turn the countries into instant republics.

Personally I think it's a shame there isn't a nice young lad in the British royal family to rescue Princess Aiko from the dinosaurs at the IHA, but William is a bit old for her, I suppose.
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  #105  
Old 03-12-2006, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
Personally I think it's a shame there isn't a nice young lad in the British royal family to rescue Princess Aiko from the dinosaurs at the IHA, but William is a bit old for her, I suppose.
Now, wouldn't that be something. But, then again maybe not.


But, I do agree about the dinosaurs statements. Too many dino's walking on the planet. Shouldn't they be lakes of oil or something. If not they should be.
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  #106  
Old 03-12-2006, 11:24 PM
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Why would that insult you if they married someone of a different nationality? that comment was quit narrow minded. I've met with people from England, and they feel the complete opposite. They think it'd be great if there was more diversity in the british royal family. In the future though, I have no doubt that there will be more diversity in the british royal family. As far as the princes dating out of there race, well hey it can happen. I admit the boys would probably get some bad press for it, and the if they were to marry a girl of another nationality or race she would have to work twice as hard, to prove herself qualified for for her future role.
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  #107  
Old 03-13-2006, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babybird
Thank you, I thought that I was the only one that was disturbed by what I was hearing.

I am all for pride in oneself, country,race,culture or what have you. But I think that sometimes racial/cultural pride is just a pretty lable to hide feelings of hate towards other races, and I know this can come from people of any race.
well said and no your not the only one. the truth is i cant speak for anyone else but i have been holding my tongue quite a bit in an effort to be civil. i think some views here are prejudice and/or xenophobic. but even so i respect anyone's right to say no matter how disgusted i am. anyways whoever Will decides to marry regardless of race I hope he makes the best decision for himself.
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  #108  
Old 03-13-2006, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princejohnny25
Yes it is majority white. But there are plenty of indians, muslims, and blacks that have made an impact on the culture. It is not a mockery to have a royal family with real people. Trying to keep the perfect white image will bring contribute to its downfall IMO. They dont need to be all white and straight to be good representives for their nation and good royals.
Absolutely. Having read through this thread I'm more than a little disgusted by the comments.So non-whites aren't "real Brits"? Immigrant communities don't integrate? Integration is a 2 way street.

Personally, I couldn't care less who William or Harry married. Being a very proud Brit of ethnic origins I think in this day and age it's irrelevant or at least it should be.
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  #109  
Old 03-13-2006, 10:26 AM
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Smartie2091, I didn't say he shouldn't marry someone of a different nationality but that I personally don't like the idea of him marrying someone of a different race which is not the same thing.
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  #110  
Old 03-13-2006, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRH Kimetha
But, this question has really fired us up. I do see that my compatriots in the British Isles are not all fired up and giving up their Isle's as Blair and the leftwingers(?) have convinced them to do. However, let them catch this forum and our friends in the BI may get supeoned for taking part in this question. That's the sad part of the whole thing. You aren't allowed the debate to discuss it.
Don't take this the wrong way, but surely the situation you have described in relation to your home town in the USA is different to the ones being described about the UK?

The native Americans are the Indians. So theoretically speaking, everybody else is an immigrant and immigrants from all over the world. And in this situation, I don't see how one group has superiority (as such) to tell the others what the do or what 'American culture' is.

In contrast, although many 'ethic minority' in the UK have made this country their home for many generations the original English are of Anglo-Saxon descent (ie Caucasian). So I suppose it is possible for the Caucasians to argue that the UK is really their country from the historical perspective and therefore their original home.

Just want to add I don't necessarily agree with this perception but just pointing out the differences and possible historical significance.
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  #111  
Old 03-13-2006, 03:38 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Amina
I understant that for some Britons the forced intergration is very hard to take and that should be expected however, some people need to be reminded of the fact that a lot of the ethnic minorities were invited to come to Britain in the sixties and that invitation hasn't been officially rescinded. On the other hand it should also be acknowledged that a lot of ethinc minorities are racist as well. I'm a Nigerian living in Britain and I have observed racism from both sides. A lot of ethnic minorities would never accept a white person marrying into their family that includes some members of my extended family so I think its a bit hypocritical for it to be wrong for a white person not wanting another ethnicity in the family while its ok for a minority. With regard to nationalism I think a lot of people mistake protecting and having pride in one's nationality with having to reject every thing else.

As for William and Harry I think they'll marry white girls because most of the people in their cirlce are caucasian and they will marry within that circle. Thats ok and I'm not dismayed by it because ultimately they will have to live with their spouses and they need people who they are compatible with not some PC bride to assuage the minorities with because that is a cruel and unfair thing to ask of them.
Welcome Queen Amina, thank you for pointing out that many ethnic communities here in the UK would be against their sons/daughters marrying a white person. We only have to look at the rise in so called 'honour' killings.
I also think they will marry someone from their own circle but, I also think that if they chose to marry someone from a different race, that would be the end of the monarchy.
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  #112  
Old 03-13-2006, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
You can't measure an impact on a food stuff. We've got MacDonalds here, it doesn't mean we all go around singing the Star Spangled Banner does it? Indian food isn't mainstream at all.
That is very true, not that I have ever had a MacDonalds.:)
Quote:
You are seeing a media manipulated image. People who actually live here in the UK have told you what it's really like. We aren't lying. We are showing you the real Britain and in the real Britain, a black member of the Royal Family is out of the question and most certainly an asian member.
Very much so. We are I think giving our opinion that it would not be acceptable to ordinary 'white' Brits for William and Harry to date outside their race. I believe even Blair would vote against that and that is why I don't think they would!
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  #113  
Old 03-13-2006, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon
I also think they will marry someone from their own circle but, I also think that if they chose to marry someone from a different race, that would be the end of the monarchy.
A bit dramatic arent we. It is just a different race not the devil. The brits arent the supirior race. People are mixing and moving and integrating. And it will happen a lot more in the 21st Century. The world and nations will change and new identitys will be found. That is the path that were heading on that has been happening for thousands of years. Having other races marry in would only help the monarchy. It makes them modern and accepting and would be a great example for their people because from the comments I hear I am begining to think Britian is stuck in the past. I always thought they were a role model and up to the times.
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  #114  
Old 03-13-2006, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princejohnny25
A bit dramatic arent we. It is just a different race not the devil. The brits arent the supirior race. People are mixing and moving and integrating. And it will happen a lot more in the 21st Century. The world and nations will change and new identitys will be found. That is the path that were heading on that has been happening for thousands of years. Having other races marry in would only help the monarchy. It makes them modern and accepting and would be a great example for their people because from the comments I hear I am begining to think Britian is stuck in the past. I always thought they were a role model and up to the times.
No, I don't think it is dramatic, the silent majority would not accept it. I can't even count the amount of times I have heard someone commenting on a mixed raced marriage with the 'I would never forgive ???? if he/she did that to us! I have even heard 'coloured' friends say the same thing. The question was about Harry and William marrying outside their race, all the English, Welsh and Scots have said no. It might be an ideal in your mind but, not in ours. We may be stuck in the past but, we don't have to copy America to be happy.
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  #115  
Old 03-13-2006, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
The brits arent the supirior race.
Imo, there is no such thing. But then I don't speak for everybody in the UK and may be some do consider themselves 'superior' whatever that means.

Quote:
Having other races marry in would only help the monarchy.
I believe it only will if the 'majority' wants it. My feeling is that the younger generation (generally) do not regard the BRF as highly as the mature generation. And to the young people who care, I am not sure how they will react.

Quote:
from the comments I hear I am begining to think Britian is stuck in the past. I always thought they were a role model and up to the times.
That is very interesting Johnny :), esp because I believe you reside in the US. I have lived in different countries, and to me the British are relatively more conservative to certain new concepts.
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  #116  
Old 03-13-2006, 04:07 PM
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Yes I do live in the US and Britian has a good reputation. We do like the brits but I think many americans would be suprised to know that this is how many britons feel. What ever makes you happy I guess but It will come back and bite you in the you know where and you will realize you were wrong. Its just a person of another race. Why does race matter so much?Why? It seems that if someone of another race marries the royal family then the royal family is tainted. Thats what it sounds like what you guys are saying.
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  #117  
Old 03-13-2006, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princejohnny25
Yes I do live in the US and Britian has a good reputation. We do like the brits but I think many americans would be suprised to know that this is how many britons feel. What ever makes you happy I guess but It will come back and bite you in the you know where and you will realize you were wrong. Its just a person of another race. Why does race matter so much?Why? It seems that if someone of another race marries the royal family then the royal family is tainted. Thats what it sounds like what you guys are saying.
Why would they be surprised, you have your own race problems, as we saw in New Orleans. We too have areas like that. I see nothing wrong in being proud of our heritage, as I am sure you see nothing wrong with yours. I see nothing wrong with us keeping it that way either within our Royal Family.
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  #118  
Old 03-13-2006, 04:22 PM
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New Orleans is different. Past racism problems caused that and there just wasnt much dont to fix it in the future. Its not that much about Racism as the media made it. They had a majority black government. It was more rich poor. But lets not discuss that here. Im sorry but I am shocked. I always thought Britian was more liberal and accepting than us. I guess I was wrong. Sad really.
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  #119  
Old 03-13-2006, 04:56 PM
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European countries weren't founded on the same principles as the U.S. so multiculturalism is a bit more foreign there than it is in the U.S.

The U.S. was founded on principles of democracy and freedom without regards to social status, nationality, race although the practice has not always followed the principle, i.e., the slavery in the early part of America's history. The city where I live, New York, is intrinsically multicutural and to turn away from that would change the city too much from how we see ourselves. Sor for better or worse, we're a multicultural city.

Albion's Seed is an excellent book on the pre-Revolutionary War multiculturalism in the U.S.

The European nations, on the other hand, were founded as groups of a race of people - the British, the Belgians, the Spaniards, the Danes, etc. Even the kings in the early times were called Kings of their respective races not geographies.

So Edward I was King of the English people (i.e., race) and his father-in-law Philip the Fair was called King of the French. Even the names of the countries come from the races that settled them. England (the Angles), Denmark (the Danes), etc.

There was no concept of England or France outside of a race of people. There's still not an identifying concept of European cultures as multicultural the way there is for the United States so the behavior of the people regarding other cultures and races are going to be slightly different.
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  #120  
Old 03-13-2006, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princejohnny25
Its not that much about Racism as the media made it. They had a majority black government. It was more rich poor.
Here it would be a problem of colour rather than rich or poor. The poor simply wouldn't come into it, they wouldn't be likely to meet socially, a poor person! I think we are more allowing than the USA but, some things should remain inviolable.
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