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  #101  
Old 09-14-2015, 01:12 PM
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In the Netherlands at maximum six persons receive an allowance of the State:
- the King and his spouse
- the future King and his spouse
- the former King and his spouse

All other members of the royal family have to provide in their own living. The exemption of these six is because the lawmaker thought it was "undesirable" that the present, the future or the former King and their spouses are "in a dependant situation to third parties". I think that is wise and I can follow this way of thinking.

Let us imagine the Dutch model on the British situation: this would mean that members of the British royal family can have a job indeed, outside these six (Elizabeth & Philip, Charles & Camilla, William & Catherine). And why not? Viscount Linley, Peter Phillips, Zara Phillips, they have led the way. And possibly Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie will follow suit. In essence the Duke of Cambridge is already a working royal so why can his future sister-in-law not have a career while married with Prince Harry?
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  #102  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:17 PM
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Why? Because, as I pointed out in my earlier post, a myriad problems would develop if a married-in royal worked for any commercial organisation in the UK, in the areas of royal patronage, security, press attention and a dozen other things. Sophie Wessex had her own business and was constantly being accused of using her royal position to gain lucrative contracts for her clients.
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  #103  
Old 09-14-2015, 02:21 PM
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The difference in the UK is that, while the Dutch press (nor anyone else) couldn’t care, the British press does and they will use everything and anything to their advantage.
It should be possible though but I’m afraid the climate within the UK will make it impossible. Or at least really hard.
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  #104  
Old 09-14-2015, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Sophie Countess of Wessex was widely attacked for using her royal status to gain lucrative contracts for the firms she represented. Exactly one of the points in my above post.

Sophie did continue to work after her marriage but came undone in 2001 when the News of the World got a coup. 'A fake Sheikh' was placed by the newspaper in order to gain access to Sophie. They wanted to see whether she would offer any 'royal' inducements or influence to gain a contract with a person she thought was wealthy.

Instead, Sophie said a lot of things she shouldn't. She referred to the Queen as 'the old dear', criticised the Blairs and the repeal of the hunting legislation, praised Hague the Conservative leader at the time, and, all in all, made a terrible faux-pas..

Neither hers nor Edward's firms was going very well, (both firms were in debt), and shortly afterwards the couple retired to full time royal duties.
The "old dear" comment was about the Queen Mother, not the Queen.
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  #105  
Old 09-14-2015, 03:31 PM
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Thanks Badger. I couldn't remember whether it was the Queen or her mother. Sophie certainly said quite a few things she shouldn't have, though!
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  #106  
Old 09-14-2015, 04:34 PM
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I agree with Elenath. It would be difficult for her to work without an intruding press and babbling colleagues. But Imo it also depends on the job. If she is an historian, it's less of a problem than her being an employee who has to work from 9to5.
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  #107  
Old 09-14-2015, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Thanks Badger. I couldn't remember whether it was the Queen or her mother. Sophie certainly said quite a few things she shouldn't have, though!
You're welcome. The problem isn't what she said, it's that she said it at all. The British royals aren't supposed to comment on politics.

Getting back on topic, ITA that it would be very difficult for a potential wife of Harry's to carry on with a career.
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  #108  
Old 09-14-2015, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RCBadger View Post
The "old dear" comment was about the Queen Mother, not the Queen.
Besides, lots of people in the UK (at least the 35 % who consistently vote for the Tories in most general elections) would probably have criticized the Blairs and the fox hunting ban, or praised the Conservative leader in a private conversation. That is completely different from Sophie making the same comments in public in her official capacity as a member of the royal family.

British royals are not supposed to show public partisan preferences , but, like anybody else, they must certainly have personal party preferences in private and I wouldn't be at all surprised if most of them were Tories. Quite frankly, Sophie was framed by the paper in that particular episode and made no faux-pas at all.
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  #109  
Old 09-14-2015, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Elenath View Post
The difference in the UK is that, while the Dutch press (nor anyone else) couldn’t care, the British press does and they will use everything and anything to their advantage.
It should be possible though but I’m afraid the climate within the UK will make it impossible. Or at least really hard.
Time for a change, then, instead of continuing to kowtow to the press and being frightened off by them. Time for non-core royals to throw down the gauntlet and get jobs and keep them and thumb their noses at the press. If one does it, then another, then another, it will become the norm. It won't be easy but that's not a reason to not do it.
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  #110  
Old 09-14-2015, 06:11 PM
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Eugenie seems to be making it work at the moment setting the stage in motion for those closer to the throne. If a born Princess can do it so can a married in bride.
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  #111  
Old 09-14-2015, 06:21 PM
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Precisely!
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  #112  
Old 09-14-2015, 06:25 PM
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Eugenie, Peter and Zara have managed to have careers without any more additional security risks than the average person faces.

The era of woman giving of their lives when they married ended with those born in the 1950s.

Those born in the 1960s or later are expected to work before, during and after marriage.

Marriage and children are no barrier for working a real job.

Cutting ribbons, wearing designer clothes and smiling at the camera is not a real job.
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  #113  
Old 09-14-2015, 06:36 PM
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Anne's children are not royal. And I think once you get to the grandchildren of a monarch, it probably is easier for them to find separate careers away from royal duties. But for the children and their partners, it's still probably a no go.
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  #114  
Old 09-14-2015, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RCBadger View Post
Anne's children are not royal. And I think once you get to the grandchildren of a monarch, it probably is easier for them to find separate careers away from royal duties. But for the children and their partners, it's still probably a no go.
Anne's children aren't royal, only because of one artificial construct that discriminates against women and another one that dictates that if a person hasn't been given the style "His/Her Royal Highness" - which in itself is absurd when you really think about it - they are not "Royal". However these people are still the grandchildren of the reigning monarch, just as Harry is, and Beatrice and Eugenie and Louise and James are.

Why does the lack of "HRH" make Zara and Peter of less interest to those whose existence warrants the appointment of protection officers and other security measures to the Queen's grandchildren? Why are they able to have jobs and live relatively normal lives when their "Royal" cousins aren't? It defies logic, IMO, but is, nevertheless, fascinating for the psychological and sociological issues it raises.
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  #115  
Old 11-14-2015, 09:28 PM
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I think requiring every spouse to sign onto being a full-time royal has to start changing. It's just not feasible imo. It potentially cost Harry at least one possible wife. There's got to be more flexibility. JMO. (If there is a right thread for this topic, let me know).
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  #116  
Old 11-14-2015, 09:46 PM
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I think it would be impossible myself, given the rampant nature of the British Press and their desire to get a story, plus security issues and a dozen other things.
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  #117  
Old 11-14-2015, 09:47 PM
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I think requiring every spouse to sign onto being a full-time royal has to start changing. It's just not feasible imo. It potentially cost Harry at least one possible wife. There's got to be more flexibility. JMO. (If there is a right thread for this topic, let me know).
I have to agree. I often think that many of us have such strong opinions on the forums that we could never effectively serve as a royal or (especially) a royal spouse.
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  #118  
Old 11-14-2015, 10:29 PM
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[QUOTE=Lady Nimue;1838995]I think requiring every spouse to sign onto being a full-time royal has to start changing. It's just not feasible imo. It potentially cost Harry at least one possible wife. There's got to be more flexibility. JMO. (If there is a right thread for this topic, let me know).
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I think it would be impossible myself, given the rampant nature of the British Press and their desire to get a story, plus security issues and a dozen other things.
It is not a requirement it is a reality. The media in UK chase the royals with vigour and, as Sophie and Edward discovered, having a job is a landmine.

They thought they had it covered by working for themselves but could never have imagined the lengths the media would go to to "get a story" even if they created the story themselves.

The media assault on any place of work employing a royal could be enough to bankrupt them as their core business becomes incidental to the "royal" on staff.

I know people will quote European royals working, but they have a tradition and a history, the UK does not and has not.
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  #119  
Old 11-14-2015, 11:28 PM
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But is the fact that it hasn't worked well in the past be reason enough to capitulate to the press and stop trying? You only have traditions and history because someone has done it before. If no-one does it, nothing will change.

Sophie tried, but her model eventually didn't work. It is the "HRH" tag that seems to be the kiss of death to a career, unless it is in one of the services. Minor royals without the HRH have successfully had careers.

If an HRH married someone who chose not to use that tag, they could establish a precedent, and once you have a precedent you have the start of a tradition. Before I'm howled down by cries that in the UK a wife takes her husband's surname and style and titles, that's only tradition, not law. The UK already has the precedent of the wife of the Prince of Wales not using her primary title. What is really the difference between HRH the Princess of Wales being known as HRH the Duchess of Cornwall, and HRH Princess Henry continuing to be known by the name she had had since birth, e.g. Ms Jane Smith, or Ms Jane Windsor? Yes, in one example the "lower" title is one her husband holds anyway, but it is still being used by her by choice. The second example is a name Harry's wife would be perfectly entitled to choose use regardless of the fact there was another name she was also entitled to use by reason of her marriage. If she was determined to practise her profession, she could decided to not take the tag.

Elizabeth has been monarch for sixty years. That's a very long time. Once her reign is over, there might be more acceptance of things being done differently.

And, yes, this is quite off-topic.
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  #120  
Old 11-15-2015, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I think it would be impossible myself, given the rampant nature of the British Press and their desire to get a story, plus security issues and a dozen other things.
But that's a societal choice. It could be undone.

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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
I have to agree. I often think that many of us have such strong opinions on the forums that we could never effectively serve as a royal or (especially) a royal spouse.
Just so.

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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
But is the fact that it hasn't worked well in the past be reason enough to capitulate to the press and stop trying? You only have traditions and history because someone has done it before. If no-one does it, nothing will change.
Exactly so.

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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Sophie tried, but her model eventually didn't work. It is the "HRH" tag that seems to be the kiss of death to a career, unless it is in one of the services. Minor royals without the HRH have successfully had careers.
So there is a precedent: Sophie (and Edward). Had there not been the scandal, it's possible they could have gone on. In fact, in the U.S. most press on after scandal and are okay professionally (depends on the severity of the scandal; sexual stuff generally is the kiss-of-death, but other stuff can be survived).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
If an HRH married someone who chose not to use that tag, they could establish a precedent, and once you have a precedent you have the start of a tradition. Before I'm howled down by cries that in the UK a wife takes her husband's surname and style and titles, that's only tradition, not law. The UK already has the precedent of the wife of the Prince of Wales not using her primary title. What is really the difference between HRH the Princess of Wales being known as HRH the Duchess of Cornwall, and HRH Princess Henry continuing to be known by the name she had had since birth, e.g. Ms Jane Smith, or Ms Jane Windsor? Yes, in one example the "lower" title is one her husband holds anyway, but it is still being used by her by choice. The second example is a name Harry's wife would be perfectly entitled to choose use regardless of the fact there was another name she was also entitled to use by reason of her marriage. If she was determined to practise her profession, she could decided to not take the tag.
Agree with this summation 100%.

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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Elizabeth has been monarch for sixty years. That's a very long time. Once her reign is over, there might be more acceptance of things being done differently.
Yep.
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