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  #1661  
Old 02-14-2013, 07:24 PM
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Noooooooooooooooooo!

...Yeah, you are probably right.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:49 PM
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Noooooooooooooooooo!

...Yeah, you are probably right.
Even if the romantic aspect of their relationship is past, it wouldn't surprise me if they remain good friends. I wouldn't think it odd for them to be seen out and about once in a while like good friends do.
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  #1663  
Old 02-14-2013, 09:05 PM
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Judging by what has happened with Henry's father, that would NOT be a good idea I think. Besides, it would attract a ton of media attention they both hate.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:49 PM
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I don't know how valid this is, or if it's been touched on here yet, but I remember reading something that said a part of the reason why they finally called it quits was because Chelsy decided that she didn't want the Royal lifestyle. If that's true then for them to get back together, either he would have to give up the BRF life or she would have to change her mind about joining it.

I'll have to search for the source later.
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  #1665  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:01 PM
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If that's the case, it IS the 21st century. No reason they have to marry. She can live her private life and he can live his royal one. Might work out quite well.
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  #1666  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:04 PM
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I suspect HE would not be happy with that. I think he wants it all. Wife, kids...
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  #1667  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:06 PM
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He's said he wants a wife and kids, that he's ready for it but that finding someone to take it all on is a challenge and he's a bit busy with his military career. I saw a video of him talking about it last year I think it was.

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  #1668  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:09 PM
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I suspect HE would not be happy with that. I think he wants it all. Wife, kids...
They can still have the kids.

If they want to marry, and she does not want to assume royal duties and give up her career, does she have to? I mean, I know that didn't work out with Sophie Wessex, but why did it not? Can it somehow work? They do want to pare down the BRF. Why not pare it down, beyond those direct in line like Will with those who actually WANT to assume royal duties? Seems workable to me.
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  #1669  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:14 PM
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They can still have the kids.

If they want to marry, and she does not want to assume royal duties and give up her career, does she have to? I mean, I know that didn't work out with Sophie Wessex, but why did it not? Can it somehow work? They do want to pare down the BRF. Why not pare it down, beyond those direct in line like Will with those who actually WANT to assume royal duties? Seems workable to me.
I think it did not work with Sophie because she and her husband had reported shady dealings...

I think it could work for Chelsy but Henry does seem to project that his place is as his brother's back up and I guess that would need the appropriate support from his wife? I hope, though that now that there is a baby on the way, things may be a tad more flexible. If Chelsy and Henry are still keen, I suspect a compromise could be worked out.
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  #1670  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:14 PM
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I don't think there is any way one of Diana's sons would be able to do that.


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  #1671  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:19 PM
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I don't think there is any way one of Diana's sons would be able to do that.
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  #1672  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AfricanAUSSIE View Post
I think it did not work with Sophie because she and her husband had reported shady dealings...

I think it could work for Chelsy but Henry does seem to project that his place is as his brother's back up and I guess that would need the appropriate support from his wife? I hope, though that now that there is a baby on the way, things may be a tad more flexible. If Chelsy and Henry are still keen, I suspect a compromise could be worked out.
I thought it was something like that with Sophie. But other royal siblings work in Europe. Harry could still perform royal duties. I don't think he needs support from his wife, as he performs them now without one.

I can't imagine Harry's father, knowing what it was like to be separated from what really was his true love, would not try and work out a compromise for him.
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  #1673  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
If that's the case, it IS the 21st century. No reason they have to marry. She can live her private life and he can live his royal one. Might work out quite well.
There's no way I can see a member of the British Royal Family living with their girlfriend out of wedlock permanently, meaning they never marry, even if it is the 21st century.
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  #1674  
Old 02-14-2013, 10:32 PM
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Giraffe, I think I have seen Henry say that he envies his brother having a companion when he goes about the royal business...but I think, if he loved her enough he would surely compromise? I don't think Charles would be a problem either.

I also agree that it is possible but they may have both moved on.
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  #1675  
Old 02-14-2013, 11:55 PM
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If they haven't already moved on, I can't imagine them living together permanently without marrying. Harry wants children, and, though I could be wrong about this, I don't think illegitimate children could take their place in the succession order, even if the parents subsequently marry. Harry wouldn't do that to a child.
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  #1676  
Old 02-15-2013, 02:08 AM
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Good point! Imagine the media circus that would come with that scenario!!!
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  #1677  
Old 02-15-2013, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by AfricanAUSSIE View Post
...but I think, if he loved her enough he would surely compromise? I don't think Charles would be a problem either.
I actually disagree here. I don't think Harry's wife could be exempt from Royal Life, nor do I think it is right in expiring her from Royal Duties.

One, I see the two as connected but different things. You can participate in Royal Life and be a member of the family without taking on Royal Duties. We've seen that with younger Royals who hasn't started doing Royal Duties, and members of the family who don't have the HRH. The Phillips and the Wessex children all take part in Royal Life without really doing Royal Duties. The Royal Duties are their own thing - and a huge one at that. To my knowledge, all members of the family who have the HRH status undertake Royal Duties (although how much each does varies). This, in my opinion, is understandable and should be expected - if you want the advantages that come with the HRH you should also take the responsibilities (namely the Royal Duties). You also get the disadvantages of the public attention, but I view that as part of the Royal Life.

It's been pointed out that there is a desire to downsize the size of the BRF, although at this point there is little indication that anything is going to be done about that beyond the eventual deaths of current members and the possible self-limitation of future children. No LPs have been issued to restrict the HRH in the case of the children of the younger Wessexes, suggesting that they could one day use the HRH, and the LP regarding the children of the Duke of Cambridge shows that HRHs are still being created.

As it stands now, there are 19 people using the HRHs - the Queen's husband, her 4 children and the 3 wives of her sons, 4 of her grandchildren and 1 of their wives, 4 of her cousins and 3 of their wives. Of these 19 people, only 3 of her children (none of whom are likely to do so at this point) and 1 of her grandsons is capable of producing future HRHs - Harry's future children will not be HRHs until his father becomes King. Of those 20 people (including HM), 11 are 64 or older (6 of which are over 70), 4 are between 48 and 62, and 5 are 31 or under. Thus in 20 years we can expect half of the current HRHs to either be dead or declining in Royal Duties. The people who do Royal Duties are, essentially, going to die out far faster than the rate of new HRHs being born. As such, the BRF will naturally downsize. And it will likely stay downsized, as family sizes in general are decreasing. It's not likely that William or Harry will follow suit and have as many children as their paternal grandparents did, and thus the future HRHs will be vastly limited. Say they have 2 children each (and the Wessexes don't use their HRHs), then in 30 years only 11 of the current HRHs are likely to still be alive (at most), in 40 only 8, in 50 only 5.

That was a bit long winded, but my point is, the family is downsizing. And whoever she ends up being, the wife of Harry will be HRH The Princess Harry (plus whatever titles he has). She will be an HRH and will have, at least in my opinion, a responsibility as such to carry out Royal Duties. Their children might not use the HRH or even have it (if LPs are issued), but she will. And if whoever Harry marries isn't willing to take that as a part of her life then I question if she's really a good fit for him. Likewise, if she's not prepared for all the scrutiny and attention that comes with Royal Life, it's not the best match. We saw this with Diana; whatever other problems were present in her marriage, issues like her bulimia be the question of whether she herself was able to handle the public scrutiny that came with being married to a Royal. That attention isn't something that the future Princess Harry will be able to avoid - and I'm betting that that has more to do with Chelsy's desire to not be a member of the BRF than the Royal Duties (assuming that she did in fact say as much, I still haven't looked for that source).

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If they haven't already moved on, I can't imagine them living together permanently without marrying. Harry wants children, and, though I could be wrong about this, I don't think illegitimate children could take their place in the succession order, even if the parents subsequently marry. Harry wouldn't do that to a child.
An illegitimate child would not be able to take a place in the succession order. Nor would they be able to inherit any of their fathers titles (were he to be given any without marrying). They also, I believe, would have a much lower level of precedence on account of their illegitimacy - were they to be received at court at all.
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  #1678  
Old 02-15-2013, 02:58 AM
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Goodness me Ish, no wonder she bolted!!! No room to move. I guess, as you say, she knew she was not a "good fit". Still, I am hoping...

By the way, in your analysis and estimate of the RF down sizing, did you take into consideration that these people seem to live forever?
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  #1679  
Old 02-15-2013, 03:23 AM
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I think the Chelsy/Harry union is in the past and will stay there. Nothing has changed Harry is still a Prince and in time will do more Royal Duties. Not sure it was the Duties or all the attention and expectations that come with being Royal Chelsy wasn't keen on. It wouldn't be fair on Harry or other members of the family if Harry's wife didn't have to do Royal Duties and kept a career. Sophie worked but still did Royal Engagements at the time. Whoever Harry marries will need to not just be blinded by the money and gifts etc and realise there is duty and lots of hardwork we have seen people in past not manage to cope with the realities of Royal Life as such. I do love the fact that Harry wants someone he can share his duties with so he may marry sooner then some think!
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:08 AM
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Goodness me Ish, no wonder she bolted!!! No room to move. I guess, as you say, she knew she was not a "good fit". Still, I am hoping...
I wouldn't say she bolted - the two were together for a long time, although it's my understanding that they were rather on-and-off. I always kind of got the sense that theirs was a rather immature relationship - they were together when it was good, but couldn't make it stick when it wasn't good. This is normal in relationships in general (especially of people in their 20s), and I wouldn't rule out that they could end up back together and making it work in the future. William and Catherine had their off times as well, but they both had that moment of "he/she is the person I need to be with for the rest of my life." Harry and Chelsy haven't had that - it's yet to be seen of they'll ever have it, or if Harry will have it with someone else.

Also, I'm not going to blame you for hoping at all. I'm still hoping that Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams will reunite.

Okay, so according to the Daily Mail, Chelsey said at the time of the wedding of William and Catherine that "there's no way [she and Harry] are getting married. It's not a life for me."

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By the way, in your analysis and estimate of the RF down sizing, did you take into consideration that these people seem to live forever?
Yes, I did. I gave them all an estimate life span of 100 years.

HM and the DoE are both 80+ and therefore will die in the next 20 years.

The Duke and Duchess of Kent, Prince Michael, and Princess Alexandra are all in their 70s, so I gave them (a generous) 30 years. The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester and Princess Michael are all in their late 60s, so I gave them 30 years too.

The Prince of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall, and Princess Royal are in their early 60s, so 40 years. The Duke of York is 52, while the Earl and Countess of Wessex are 48, so 50 years.

The eldest HRH remaining is Catherine (followed closely by William) who will both be 31 this year. I gave them and Harry 70 years, while I gave the Princesses of York, who are in their 20s, 80 years. Thus, within 50 years the only remaining HRHs will (probably) be William (who will actually be HM), Catherine, their children and grandchildren, Harry, his future wife, their children, and the Yorks. That's 5 people who have the HRH now, plus an unknown quantity of HRHs to be born. Say William and Catherine have 2 kids, who each have 2 kids, and Harry has 2 kids, that's 9 additional HRHs (including Harry's wife) for a total of 14 - 4 of whom, William's future grandchildren, who will presumably be in their early 20s and just starting on Royal Duties.

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It wouldn't be fair on Harry or other members of the family if Harry's wife didn't have to do Royal Duties and kept a career. Sophie worked but still did Royal Engagements at the time.
It also wouldn't be fair for the public. Part of what we expect from the BRF is the Royal Duties. If you have the HRH, you should be doing at least some Duties (as it stands, the you get Royals all now do considerably less than their parents, and the Queen's cousins, I believe, do less as well). Those who aren't entitled to or don't use the HRH - The Princess Royal's children and The Earl of Wessex's children - should be exempt on account of not using the HRH - and in the future, Harry may wish to grant his children that freedom as well. Harry's wife will have the HRH, so she will have that responsibility.

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Whoever Harry marries will need to not just be blinded by the money and gifts etc and realise there is duty and lots of hardwork we have seen people in past not manage to cope with the realities of Royal Life as such. I do love the fact that Harry wants someone he can share his duties with so he may marry sooner then some think!
I think whoever Harry marries will need to be attracted by the family in general - not just the titles and what not, but the life. There's a lot of flack about Catherine being a social climber who pursued William because of his status, and to some extent this is probably true - she knew very well what she was getting into and wanted it, that's why she and William have worked. I think Camilla is the same way, and I don't see this as negative in either of their characters - especially as they both very clearly love their husbands. It really seems like others weren't able to handle it all, leading to divorce. Chelsy seems to have realized that she doesn't want it all; she know what it is, and doesn't think Harry's worth it. Catherine either wanted it all or does think William's worth it.
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