thanks muhler, i'm always fascinated by languages and especially people's approach to learning languages, so i enjoyed reading this on how mary and marie approached the learning of danish differently.
so would you say marie is better at pronounciation while mary has a wider vocabulary? what about grammar? how do they deal with it and how are they doing with the structure of their phrases?
You are welcome.
At their present level, I'd say Marie has a better pronounciation. Mary (like so many English speakers) has problems with the Æ Ø Å vovels. They exist in French and German, so our Marie has an advantage there.
Mary also tends to pronounce words in English. Marie tends to slow down and thus pronounce the words more carefully, when she's thinking about what she wants to say. Here Mary instead goes ahead at full speed.
Mary's Danish is more advanced, in regards to her vocabulary, the length of her sentences, the structure and so on.
Judging from hearing Mary speaking English I'd say she speaks Danish at a similar level as she speaks English, in regards to her choice of words and phrasing. You can tell Mary is used to presenting things orally from her past.
I don't understand French well enough to judge how Marie's level is in comparison to the way she speaks French.
Accent.
No doubt here in my mind. Mary has a heavier, or rather more noticable, accent than Marie.
Marie's grammar, because she is using a simpler Danish, is close to perfect. There are a few typical mistakes here and there but nothing serious. In fact she makes a similar number of mistakes as a native makes at conversation speed, just slightly different.
Mary struggles more with basic grammar, mainly because there is no equivalent to the, der, die, das in Danish.
Example: Car = bil.
A car =
en bil.
The car = bil
en.
The cars = biler
ne.
Cars = Bil
er.
More cars = flere bil
er.
Slightly confusing, eh?
- A typical mistake of Mary (and indeed most English speakers) is to say "en bil" instead of "bilen". I.e. putting a non-existant "the" into the sentence.(In fact she's switching to Jutlandic dialect but that's another story).Again, because Marie is using simpler words and shorter sentences she doesn't make that many basic mistakes. Or perhaps it's simply more logic to her?
Speed.
When Marie is thinking about what to say or rather thinking in the back of her head "hey, I'm Princess, better be careful what I say", then she slows down and hesitate slightly. But when she isn't in princess-mode, she's going ahead at full speed and as we know she's quite talkative as well.
Mary, that's full speed ahead all the time. Conversation speed. If she hesitates it's not because she mentally struggles with her Danish but because she's genuinely thinking about what to say. Likewise her replies are instant. She's clearly more confident than Marie.
Understanding.
Mary understands Danish perfectly. Even the subtle nuances and the constant use of irony. (It helps a lot to be Australian in that respect)!
You can also tell that she's used to debating in Danish. Again, Danish on a pretty advanced level.
Marie certainly understands day to day Danish very well if not perfectly. She may struggle if the sentences and words are getting longer and more advanced. (But so are many natives).
Marie. It's my impression that she is more exposed to day-to-day Danish than Mary is. That is from ordinary Danes. Let me explain: Mary is after all the Crown Princess and apart from her status there is a tremendous respect towards her. Apart from friends, whose speech pattern she knows and who have a fairly similar background, I don't think Mary has that many "weather and wind" conversations with ordinary Danes. Mary meets a heck of a lot of ordinary Danes but my feeling is that it is mainly as the Crown Princess and that makes a difference in a conversation.
Marie on the other hand meet more ordinary Danes in an informal setting, I believe. Like the employees at Schackenborg, when she's going through Møgeltønder village or Tønder town. The mindset and pronounciation in rural Southern Jutland, let alone the topics can be way different from Copenhagen. And in that respect Marie has a big advantage over Mary, she's a secondary princess and as such people may be more relaxed around her (more relaxed than around Joachim too for that matter), not least in Southern Jutland where she and Joachim are more or less considered one of their own. I can well imagine Marie, being a very talkative and open person, having a chat with the local baker in Møgeltønder each time she drops in for a cake.
A bit long reply, as usual, but necessary I think to understand what I mean.
No doubt other Danish members have a different perception from mine.
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